[bebop]

I have to say when I read it I too felt the same way and still do. If someone doesn't have the money or can't write a column for the newletter then we are "out" of the group. I never write long post because I am not good with words and I can't send money I don't have and after the "sleeps" episode I am not sure I would send in to some fund. I might send to a person I know here but not to a fund. my opinion though

[LMo]

You know, I'm kinda new coming into this so I might be speaking prematurely, but my initial reaction to reading about the new forum was NOT hurt or feelings of exclusion. I'm not saying that your feelings are wrong, but I just don't understand it. I don't feel hurt. I mean, what would I really be missing by not being part of another forum? It's a lot of the same people there that are also here. Our friends will remain our friends. I don't know what Doc John intents for the purpose of the forum, but maybe it's just to talk about feelings that we experience after we've contributed to a member? Or feelings that we experience when we write an article for a newsletter. Or maybe he's just trying out the idea of a a private forum, and probably figured it's easier to choose a "group" that (he would have thought) would be noncontroversial and that nobody would feel hurt about ... (but was obviously wrong from what I've read here). What if he tested the concept using the bipolar or depression forum? Wouldn't THAT be more exclusive?

I'm not defending him or arguing with anyone here who feels hurt, but don't we at least owe him the benefit of the doubt and try to assume that he was trying to do something nice for us, even if the intentions weren't entirely clear? He has not even once shown himself to be the kind of guy that intentionally hurts people's feelings. He's done something WONDERFUL for by creating this FREE support site for us, and asks nothing in return. I feel that while everyone's feelings are very valid, it just seems rather unappreciative to complain in this manner.

[radio_flyer]

Maybe he is trying to do something nice for a few folks here.. But by doing something nice for a few he is excluding others.. I don't think his intentions are to "hurt" anyone, but in his wording "supporter" and "private" it has hurt folks. Because everyone here that contributes to the forum feels they are being supportive and or a "supporter" of Psych Central... And announcing a "private" forum, he is exluding many here..Which in my opinion is creating "division"

I don't feel folks that are expressing their thoughs, concerns or feelings are one bit unappreciative of what Doc John has done with Psych Central....Speculating that folks are unappreciative" is a lil harsh "

I can't see what folks that have written an article for the newletter or contributed funds need to say in private that can't be expressed in the public forum.....IMHO

[LMo]

ok, that's just how I see it. No offense meant. I'm glad that we're all comfortable talking about this, though.

[radio_flyer]

I agree... It is good we can talking about it..

I personally don't see a problem with the private forum. Doc John offers many opportunities for members to submit their work to the newsletter. look at how many people post their poems in the creative message board. as far as I can tell everyone has posted something in there at one time or another. All it takes to get those poems into a newsletter is sending Doc John a copy of it and asking the question - "is there room in the next newsletter for this? I think it will help other people to see things from a personal point of view on this." No where in any of the site rules does it say any topicis in the newsletter is off limits. having Doc john include just one of the meany poems that people post in creative will get them access to the private forum.

Im guessing basically the private forum is going to be only for those that submit something to the newsletter or offer even one dollar to helping a fellow member keep ther lights one and heat on so that those that are non members cannot lurk and read with out registering and logging in which is exactly what many people over the course of the past few weeks have been asking him for.

This was probably Doc Johns way of meeting each and everyones points of views on the privacy issue. those that don't want the community to be private now have a non private area and those that wanted the private area can have it all they have to do is submit one paragrah, one haiku, or poem for the newsletter that they think will help someone reading the newsletter understand mental illness or a specific mental problem.

If this was the solution he came up with for a very divided and controversial issue on the community boards I say way to go Doc John.

So much for the saying - "you can't have your cake and eat it too".

[SongBirdandDaisy]

Sky,

the hidden forum idea doesn't allow everyone in. so it's not what I would want. I've been told by another member that they will not join and it does exclude people - people who support in the best way possible - with their loving thoughts and concerns and time and effort into replying to someone in need.

That's a problem I know I have (not speaking for anyone else) that feeling of being left out of the human race all of my life because of the abuse.

I have found much love and support here and feel that this new privte forum is saying I'm not good enough.

Songbird

[LMo]

Songbird... I'm sorry that you feel "not good enough". I wish I could wave a wand and change your instinctive reaction to it Your explanation of how your past has contributed to your perspective on the new forum makes a lot of sense. I do, though, think that the "left out" feeling is likely to be more common in those who are sensitive to or have had bad experiences with rejection. I don't have that same kind of past as you, and I honestly have to say that I felt NO feelings of hurt or exclusion when I read the post (although I later noticed that I had access to the new forum, I guess because I had contributed to the fund drives for a couple of members). When I first read the announcement, I thought "ok, so there is a new forum for people who wrote an article or gave money" and then I moved on to reading what was posted in Relationships and some of the other forums. It was only when I got back here to General did it dawn on me that anyone would feel hurt and excluded by it... that reaction is one that never would have occurred to me had you guys not posted this.

Songbird, I'm glad that you were able to express your feelings in this way. It helps so much more in understanding each other if we each speak about how we feel in terms of ourselves, rather than merely disagreeing with another person's action.

You still have the love and support here -- that hasn't gone away.

[SongBirdandDaisy]

Myself,
I think I understand what your saying and what DJ's intention was, of course, he will have to speak for himself.

It is still hurtful to people who have issues with feeling excluded from privelages all of their life. I am pretty sure that was not his intention. Yes, I could whip something up and submit for membership, but what about the people who are constantly feeling judge for what they write and feel? They will not contribute. I will not contribute for that reason - who would want to hear what I have to say and I am no expert - I am here to learn more about interacting with people and feeling safe enough to express myself. It's a huge battle.

And more importantly, I used to feel like I was a contributor because I do my best to support the people here by just being here. Giving a hug or a word or two of encouragement.

I think it's great that DJ is trying to find ways of improving the forum and meeting everyones needs. Maybe the post was just really poorly written - it happens to everyone. I was deleted yesterday for starting a post about this topic - I guess it was poorly written. I was just feeling so hurt and abandonded by someone who started this wonderful place and now feel like I'm not good enough to be here.

Songbird

[SongBirdandDaisy]

LMO,

your eloquent words have touched my heart. thank you for the support and acknowledging that my feelings are valid. if you were away in the private forum, I never would have known.

Hugs,
Songbird
PS: I printed your response to put in my "positive words" journal.

[mangledreality]

Guys I have been not posting and just have come in from time to time to read. Somethings happened, and I felt alone here. It seemed PC was not what I thought it was. But I could not let that be, it had to be the PC I thought. So many of you mean so much to me I did not want to back away, and know I drop in and Find this. Wow it does not feel to good around here anymore. I am also glad we can talk about it freely As soon as I read the idea I wanted to speakout and give my thought, but I was not going to because I thought I would be only one. Another post was taken off where I mentioned I felt bullied here at times, the reason given was that I should keep somethings private and off the boards, that so went against what I thought PC was, So my Thoughts on this,about Doc Jon's idea would never make it and know I found Brave people saying how they feel. This might be taken away because I mentioned bullies and feelings here, but It was nice to drop in and see people still willing to express themselves, people have said they were worried about, maybe getting banned, and the only reason a person would not want something like that to happen is because they love this place, and are willing to sit on there feelings to keep it. that has to mean something. I said I would not be run off from here, but I have cut wayyyy back to avoied trouble, I did not want some big drown out thing so I hid. Now I see this. I had thought there were SPECIAL people here people treated different and I tried to tell myself that the Mods. and Adm. would never let that be, and It was anger that fueled that thought, it had to be my being up set. Now I see this seperate forum, I wonder just how far off I was. I know this will not stay up long. This has just been My opinion
Maybe it came across wrong, I do wonder Why Doc has not responded to it yet. I do not care if it is because you send money, or words or anything, if any action allows different people different areas it feels wrong. Hi to all those I miss, you Good guys are Good guys!!! love Ya!!! Rachel, mangledreality

(((((((SongBird))))))))))
I for one would love to read some of your stuff in the newsletter. and yes I understand the battle.

Maybe I don't see a problem with this because I have been in many on line support groups that have had private areas that are not readable but people who are not registered and logged in. PC was actually the first and only group that I have ever been on that did not have a private members area.

Im sorry you are uncomfortable with the idea that in order to gain access to the other forum it requires a submission to the newsletter or monetary support for the site. This is actually a standard proceedure with other non menber areas like NAMI for instance. To have access to their private boards you need to either volunteer some time to a local NAMI agency or a monetary fee. The survivors forum a person has to go through the registration process. Monetay support for the site right now is not a manditory thing but I can see it happening because the site keeps going down from lack of funds to run it. The Ross institute website has a private area as does ISSD and many other on line support groups. and each of those private access areas has some sort of requirement to fullfil in order to gain access to it. So for me this concept that Doc John has added here is just something that has always been done at other on line therapy and support groups. I am amazed that this did not happen sooner. It takes a lot of money to keep this site up and running and not once has Doc John ever said it was manditory to pay a registration fee for the use of this site like so many other sites have had to resort to to keep this place up and running. Those newsletters go out and people who read them donate their time and money to keep this place up and running and free to those that become members here. I personally think those that are willing to put themselves out there helping to keep this site up and running deserves an area that is private. and if it means that for me to gain access to the private forum I have to submit a poem that people can see anyway just by lurking and reading the creative corner then I'll do it. not only will my peom be published in the newsletter but it will actually help keep this place up and running for free for those that cant afford to register at other online support groups that are out there that are now and soon will be registration fee required support groups.

Take care (((((((SongBird)))))))))))

[SongBirdandDaisy]

Myself,

It is a good explaination and a new perspective. Maybe you should write the thread for him. It just seemed like a slap in the face for my efforts.

Being rejected and isolated from other people is an issue for me and I recognize that but it doesn't make it go away.

Coming to PC at my psychologists urging, has been extremely helpful for me. It has allowed me to give without feeling too vulnerable. It has allowed me to express things that I have trouble expressing - I have anhedonia alot from the abuse. It has allowed me to feel useful and not a throw away. It has allowed me to feel cared about and appreciated.

I do see what you're saying and was unaware that other site require registration fees and didn't know or think what it costs to run this site. It just really hurt to think that I was being excluded because I didn't meet the criteria for "Are you a supporter of PC?" I thought I was but will take this new enlightenment into consideration.

I do still stand behind all of those (and me?) who feel they are being left behind.

((((((((((myself))))))))))))))

Songbird

LOL the writer in me looking at all angles again. LOL thanks for the compliment. (((((((((((SongBird))))))))))

[Zorah]

oh, great move Doc,

give a special forum to members with money,

& people prepared to go public.

Really ethical !!!!!!!

perhaps it should be just reinstated that psychcentral has a membership fee. That way there aren't two categories of membership that makes ppl who have been friends of the site for long years feel sorta like second-class members. In a way.. this site is like family for allot of people, so giving special membership (although I'm sure well intentioned) to any member, is bound to hurt feelings and cause strife between "siblings".
We all sometimes are blind sited in our decisionmaking sometimes becuase it is hard to see how our actions will be interepreted.

[DocJohn]

Let me explain further....

The community is already segregated by things of interest to members -- what kind of issues you're facing, whether you are a creative soul or not, etc. etc. This is one more interest.

However, this forum isn't mean to make people feel hurt, sad or an outcast -- and I apologize this is some people's reaction to this idea. I'm just trying to do something special for people who've given back in some manner to the community in this fashion. The criteria for access isn't 100% fleshed out (I came up with some initial obvious criteria, but there may be a few other things), so we're going to tweak it in the next few days as well.

I am sorry that some of you feel the way you do. We're doing this not to hurt people, but to acknowledge and provide another place for supporters of our website. We should've done this from the start, it's something I long overlooked and wanted to fix.

DocJohn

PS - Just to reinforce this message -- yes, there will be additions to the criteria coming soon (tomorrow) to open it up to some additional groups of people.

[DocJohn]

And also let me remind members that while I appreciate the expression of your frustration and such, keep it respectful and within the community guidelines. I'm not going to stand for a free-for-all and "let's dump on this idea because we can" attitude.

Most of you have done this appropriately, but some of you have crossed the line.

[pegasus]

DocJohn

I consider myself to be a true supporter of Psych Central.

I have been here everyday, since I joined.

I truly enjoy helping other people.

I have not contributed to any fund, nor to any newsletter.... so I am excluded!

[pegasus]

.....waiting to see what the new criteria will be......

HOPEFUL!

[SongBirdandDaisy]

A Public Apology

If I have offended anyone, especially Doc John, I do apologize whole heartedly.

I have been a target all of my life for people to hurt me and would NEVER think to hurt someone else.

So, if I have, I apologize.

Sincerely,
Songbird

LMo.........i didn't mention feeling "left out". i used words like discrmination, etc. i wouldn't contribute to a forum for "bipolar" if it was exclusive. i don't understand your saying something like that.

there are those of us here who don't feel rejected. we feel that there is a bias being exhibited and that it is not the best thing for the forum.

i'm not playing a "blame game" and i really don't want to read that anyone thinks that in reference to my post. i'm in more of a "confused and hurt game" over what the purpose of the forum is and what it will really do to PC.

love, ethel

i feel that my support and the hours that i've spent here, trying to help others, is just as important as any article that ANYONE writes and is probably more important than the money. excluding the people who can't/won't write and don't have the money to give is what the problem is.

AND i wrote a poem for the book that was published and that poem didn't take me nearly as long as it does to write a response to someone that is hurting.

you can belong to as many online support groups as you have time for. we're ONLY talking about PC> and our feelings about PC.

[nothemama8]

Post deleted by kimmydawn

Doc, i didn't write one word to "cross a line" or to be disrespectful. if something i said felt that way to you, i'm sorry.

i do want to say this, i stand by my intentions that i had when i wrote my posts. i immediately responded when i read your post. all of that came from my gut/heart. that's where most feelings live. mine don't live in my head.

a very important question. why do you feel that you need a "private supporters forum"? i'm so surprised that you are doing it and i just don't understand why. when you discussed this with your adm and mods, didn't anyone think this would hurt posters feelings?

as you can see, so many thought that their contributions of: love, caring, support for strangers, time spent here, etc. really meant something. now people are questioning their worth here. after a night's sleep, i still don't understand this. my message flag continues to flash. there are a lot of people here who are afraid to post about this publicly. you aren't seeing all of the pain here.

i am so very confused about the forum.

again, for those who mention "blame".......there a lot of people here who are questioning, expressing their feelings (which obviously is very difficult for them) and exhibiting some anger. if anyone should know, we know that pain frequently comes out first as anger. just because i sat here with a big hole in my gut doesn't mean that someone else, in their pain, didn't want to smash their keyboard. this is a forum for people with problems. Doc owns the forum, who else is going to get the heat from the hurt? the guy on the rock?

there is a difference between reaction and responding. and for some of us, it's hard to tell the difference. reacting usually comes from fear, anger and perhaps a feeling of rejection. responding comes from a carefully thought out base from which you project your feelings/thoughts. oboviously, everyone here is at a different level in their understanding of reaction and response. that is what makes the forum unique. we're all different.

there is also the "fight or flee" reaction/response. i imagine that you're going to see both actions. some will fight for their beliefs and some will flee the forums and never return.

please give everyone a chance to express whatever it is they are feeling in their own way.

this is a support forum and and i'm impressed that people are stepping forward (which is difficult for some of them) to say what they are feeling/thinking.

please, please, don't shut anyone down unless something is said that will hurt the entire forum. please let your forum members speak. fayerody