At what point are you a complete loser?

So therefore your goal is to be part of an orchestra. A loser would not aspire to be that. To be part of an orchestra is a wonderful thing. Magical. Inspiring.

Doctors and trained technicians have to study for many many years. Now is the time for you to study and practice your art. Go and see a performance of a great orchestra and become entranced and encouraged. You are not at the finish line yet, by a long shot.

Write to people in the industry and get pointers from them. Do what ever you need to hone your art. Mourn your loss through music. Define your passion in music.

To be loved is something many people wish for. To approach men sometimes comes off as being desperate and they will run. Let love turn up when you least expect it.

No George this is not about men. Its is about Growlithing, growing into the person she needs to be. Blow your horn hun.

Okay... did I miss something. I don't recall reading anything about your childhood. Do you think you might be giving off some "do not approach" vibe?
That does happen and guys will pick up on it and leave you alone.
Have you thought about using a dating service? I think there have been a few mentioned on this site.

Erm...

...wouldn't this ^ mean that being on dating sites make one seem even more desperate?

lol no I was just writing stuff at 3:30am and I think I had some sort of train of thought on that subject and didn't fully articulate it. Sorry about that...

No, I don't think I'm giving a "do not approach" vibe in the sense that I seem mean or grumpy. I might come off as very uninterested because I do tend to hide all of my feelings and when I do try and be "flirty", I either come off too strong or just so awkward that I'm not sure anyone can tell that I'm attempting to hit on them. I need to work on being subtle without being too subtle.

I know of dating sites, I'm just scared of them. You never really know who you're talking to..... but I guess that's just like real life.

Probably in your 30's then!! Or some women peak closer to 40!!

Guys daring each other to ask you out, but never landing a date!!!

HI!!! ME!! OH, they flirt!! Their eyes, they do be 'a wandering, but do you think, for one stinking minute, I get asked out!?!? BOYS!!! what a joke!!!

OMG, let me talk about the workplace here, since you mention feeling like a loser for not having a job---oh, it will get worse working, because get these two life stories!!
One time, I had this CSR job all lined up through this job I kept through college---they um wrote a letter, so I could get a car loan, right out of college stating my salary. So I show up for work to switch departments. The MALE boss, tells me, ahhh, I'm sorry, I didn't agree to that, because no, I don't think you handle being on the phone with clients, you are just too quiet!! (((UMM, EVER heard MY Phone Voice!!! I'm great on the phone!!!))) What an idiot!!
Oh, and then there was this one time, I was temp/reception/accounts receivable/payable for this roofing company. The MALE Boss, decided I wasn't Eye Candy enough!! ((yeah, he's the type that breaks his neck looking at me now...*birdie*))

Loser for not working? Nyet!!

Work through those Self Esteem Kinks, and then you'll see what we are talking about((geesh, I was about to write ghetto...what we be talkin' 'bout, iight?!))

Loser over boys?! Nyet!! I am not a man hater, but I am discovering a certain power in having grown into my skin!! Like a Swan Song!!!

Loser over fearing driving!! Do you know how many people are scared of that! Plenty. Those vehicles, have you seen some of the other drivers out there?! It's an obstacle course out there!!!

Anyways....

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! You are no longer a teenager

Yeah... just relax and see what happens. You can always suggest coffee or pizza or something you think might be interesting just to hang out.
and in another quote: Growlithing... we all have that on our minds. At least those of us who aren't just trying to score. Some guy/girls are easy to fall for. Most aren't. Use your best judgment. Try to err on the side of caution. It isn't life and death although at this point it may seem like it.
Ok... I'm still going to suggest working on those viable excuses. We can't go through life coming up with new viable excuses, wouldn't you agree? That is more or less what I meant by seizing the day. Don't forget to live life while you are working on these other thing.
There's a lot more to life than the things you are focused on ATM. Those things should just be part of the plan.
And finally in reply to your first reply... I'm not saying any of this is easy except maybe the living life part. We aren't going to be helpful if by being helpful you hope we might have some magic formula that instantly transforms your life

Life is different for everyone. I'm not sure where this idea comes from that we have to have accomplished such-and-such by this age or that age. I wish I never worked til 30. (I'm 34 now.) I started working at 12 and basically never did anything else. I too had a fear of driving - the only person in my entire class who didn't fly into the licensing office on my 16th birthday to write for my learner's permit. My dad took me down there. His deal, not mine. I failed the written three times in a year and gave up. two years ago I took it and passed. I did it because I wanted to prove to myself that I could overcome the fear. My dad paid for me to do driver's training - $2000 - which I guiltily complied with since he paid so much for it and isn't a wealthy person, and y'know what? I hate driving. I hate it. Jobs will come, relationships will come, and you will likely find that you don't feel much better than you do now. Not to condescend, or to write off your concerns and doubts as irrelevant; they are far from that. They help make you who you are. But to be honest, I remember when I was 20. I felt the same way as you do now. And now I'm 34, and I've got all the things I wanted plus some and guess what? Still feel the same way.
The things do not make us.
Focusing on the things, though, above all else, and envisioning them as the be-all-end-all, can hold us back from having a life we can enjoy.
Just be true to you, live one day at a time, and try not to define yourself by 'stuff'. Good luck with the process.

This has been interesting, you say your a loser, but you have just held a interesting conversation with a bunch of people you never met, not many loser,s can do that . I get where your coming from on the guy front , you have got it but just not got it right. You no when you get dumped and people say (plenty more fish in the sea) MAYBE but who wants to screw a barracuda , //just thrown that in for a laugh. Feel more confident with yourself, have a look at your cloths, hair , and make up see if you need a little upgrade to bring out your best. Hey when I was in my 20-30 manic stage there wasn't any ugly girls just some a bit better looking, so you would have come on my screwing radar, DONT PUT YOURSELF DOWN

Yeah you're right. I know that if I were to have all of those things, I'd just be an empty person with a boyfriend, job, and ability to drive. Or I could be worse and could become an empty person that is dependent on someone else to occasionally feel happy. That's very VERY scary to me and I don't want to ever mess with that. It might be one of the scariest things I can think of because what happens when he leaves me? I know I need to fix my problems from the inside out and I know that I have a lot of work to do before I'd be capable of entering a healthy relationship. But for whatever reason that knowledge doesn't always help the way I feel about it

HI there...
I have a few things i try repeatedly telling myself when i feel like a total loser... and i do quite often...

we always do the best we can... if we could do better, then we would've... our best efforts may not always bring the best results immediately, but with time always you see your efforts paying off...

i too am unemployed, sitting at home, studying off of my parents... i can choose to spend my time making myself feel like a total loser, comparing myself with my peers, crying myself to bed every day... or i can accept it, be happy with myself, that this is where i am in my life, use my time wisely to make it all work, study well now, and probably get a great job when i'm finished...

the problems, emotional environmental physical etc all are very different for even people raised in the same household...
so their eventual excellence in various fields are at varied times of life...
if you're more practical and try to be more logical in your approach toward life, you learn that logic doesn't always help relationships, and you need compromise etc at some point later in life...
whereas if your more sensitive and emotional, you learn that certain areas of life require you to put those issues aside and deal with them with a more logical approach etc...

so, there's no point beating yourself up over what is missing...
no good ever comes out of it...
what is, is...

Forgive yourself... say "it's okay" to yourself every once in a while... pat yourself when you make someone smile ...

everyone can do what everyone can... it's all about your confidence in yourself...

if you are worried about these things, work on them... for example challenge yourself to go out there behind the wheel instead of accepting your fear and feeling bad about it...

once you work hard on it, you will definitely find your self-esteem, confidence rising...
you will accept yourself better...
and that will help you overcome all these issues quicker and better...

you have a whole life ahead of you...
all the best!

If I could always apply logic to the emotional/sensitive side to me then I wouldn't have this problem because it wouldn't bother me. I logically understand but sometimes my emotions overtake me. Sometimes I don't feel terrible about it and other times, like when I posted this, I do. If I could just chose to not let something bother me and to be happy, I would have no problems in life at all but it doesn't work like that for me. When I do brush something off or deny my true feelings, they come back ten times worse later.

Sometimes, we can't help beating ourselves up for something that's missing. Maybe it doesn't make logical sense to do so, but "it is what it is" is an apathetic mindset that someone who is emotionally invested in a situation can't really benefit from. I also feel like "it is what it is" and "everyone can do what they can" are statements that are content with mediocrity.

I don't feel that choosing to brush things off and be 'happy' works for anyone?! When we stuff emotions, it does come back tenfold.

I am not convinced that apathy and mediocrity entail 'it is what it is,' nor 'everyone can do what they can.'? For instance, in the workplace, it is what it is, is used a lot for me and those I work with. We are under government constraints. Apathetic or acceptance that there are things beyond our control and this is what we have to work with 'we can only do what we can' with the resources that we have? Can still strive to go above and beyond mediocrity with limited resources.

What is it, about life, that you want to strive to go above mediocrity? If it's outward appearance, then by all means. If it's learning to drive, then by all means. And if it's about gaining some job skills, then by all means.

Setting goals, is about rising above mediocrity and apathy.

Jumping in here.......when I was a music major in college, I started teaching lessons......I was piano & flute.....I didn't enjoy teaching that much but it did bring in money & it was also good for me to learn some self-confidence in learning that I could teach someone something they didn't know.....it was also good for learning to better communicate to others.

I had the desire to be in an orchestra also....grew up in California (Los Angeles)....competition was beyond my talent level......so I gave up & went into accounting & computer science.....ended up in an engineering career programming military communications systems.....while keeping my music as my hobby & played in many chamber groups & flute choirs & yes, did the church services & weddings & funerals (including my own Dad's).

Driving......interesting issue as there are some people like me who couldn't want to have my freedom which driving gave me because my mother never drove & my father was never home from work to take me anywhere......so like wasn't very good growing up without having any way to get around other than walking.....& walking to junior high & getting jumped by a rooster.....not my idea of fun. My parents loved driving out to the desert on weekends to hike around & let my dad look for his gold mine......I hated going with them so my bribery was that I would go if he would let me drive on the back roads.....so I started learning to drive when I was 13....got my license on my 16th birthday.....however my daughter on the other hand had been in a bad car accident when she was young....H ended up rolling the car & she was thrown out onto the fast lane of one of the major California freeways......even though we both worked & she had no way of getting around, her fear of driving kept her from getting her license until she was over 20 also.......It's definitely all a personal desire & I'm not even sure if she remembers that accident because she was really young.....sometimes there are things in our past....& maybe even something we saw on the TV that causes us to have a fear.

As for relationships.....I always wanted a career....I didn't want to be a housewife like my mother....as a matter of fact, I focused hard on not being anything like my parents in any way possible.....& I didn't trust any man to not leave me.....so I knew that my success in life had to be dependent on MYSELF. I didn't want to be known as "someone's wife"......I wanted to be ME. I chose to focus on my degree......& the guy I met, red flags went off about getting married & I should have listened to those red flags because I believed in making a marriage work.....gave it 33 years & finally was able to leave 6 years ago. I never had the respect for my H because of the red flags that went off before the wedding......& there was never any intimacy of any sort in the marriage even having our daughter was another huge issue in the marriage as his first comment was that I could quit college for a couple of years......that was WAR!!!!

From personal experience, one of better off without having closeness with men unless you really find the right one. I could have lived my life very nicely without ever being married....because that desire to have someone care & be close to doesn't necessarily come with marriage or even living together.

Something I did come to understand in my DBT therapy that I've spent 2 1/2 years going through.....those feelings you talk about coming & going.....that's normal....our feelings are like waves that come in & go out......we feel the emotions & then our logical mind takes over & the emotions flow out....then the whole cycle starts over again....it's normal what you are going through.....it would be NOT NORMAL if you weren't feeling the feelings you are experiencing.

But just remember one thing.....you are not a loser......everything in life takes time....& patience.....& when we end up the least bit interested is when things start to fall together. It's good to not have someone in your life who will distract you from your goals or try to change them. Yes, life is complex.....it's all a part of life....it's good that you are able to recognize your feelings & emotions....it took me years to recognize anything that wasn't anger.

Know that life can feel like we are trapped in one area of a rat maze & no other pathways will open up.....that was how I felt about my marriage situation......but new areas open up when we least expect them to.......& yes, it is all about patience. Sometimes when we are dealing with fear, it does take a bit of pushing on our part.....but the pushing needs to be done with our wise mind, not emotions.

Cool cool. Yeah, the competition is unbelievably tight, but I just can't seem to let go of the dream :P

Yeah I always had a desperate desire to drive so I could escape my house, but my parents would always make fun of me saying that I'm horribly irresponsible and will end up killing someone on the road. They wouldn't let me take driver's ed until I was almost 16 and when I got my permit, they were so mean to me when I practice drove that I never did it.

That's one of the reasons why I'm scared of men/relationships. Part of me is convinced that any guy I'll date will hurt me. I'm glad to hear that you managed to escape your train wreck marriage.

I'm a loser too. The options are limited to accepting it or trying to make things better for yourself. I'm in the trying to make things better stage and getting nowhere which is frustrating. I hope you have more success.

Isn't everyone some type of loser when we compare? Competition means someone is either above the line or under the line. It took awhile and several therapy sessions, but I finally stopped comparing myself with others and am enjoying life so much better as a result.

Hey, i connect with your posts a lot. I think i have a similar mentality- kind of like i'm doomed.. What are you struggling with lately?

Lately one of the big things is I am feeling like maybe I got discharged a little to soon from the psych unit(got out last week)...but its expensive and I am not on medicaid yet so I don't want to risk another massive bill I have no way to pay and my parents can't afford to cover any hospital bills either..hence why I have yet to go back. The new meds I'm taking help mellow me out and reduce all the racing thoughts but I still feel pretty hopeless.

I feel like I need something more than therapy once every 2 to 3 weeks, don't know if I have the energy or means to do that...I want to at least get in some kind of group therapy so maybe I don't feel so alone with the issues I have just not sure how to go about it...or if there is anything I could afford. I have also been thinking of getting a psychiatric service dog, but that is going to be a while before I can try and do that. So yeah i guess I'm just feeling depressed, financial issues are bothering me and yeah I still don't see things looking up any.

Thank god we don't have to pay in mental hospital in England, there would be know one in them, just tumble weed blowing about

Yeah it would be nice to live somewhere you didn't have to afford healthcare, because its provided but I don't so that's too bad.

OOOOOO you do have to pay every week out our wages , if you earn £500 a week £ 42 is deducted every week from your wages , by law of goverment , im talking if you have to pay the actual fee to the consultant or shrink, BRITS would not like that. If your out of work and signing on unemployment you pay nothing, That is why the NHS is on the floor, because people are out of work , and not paying , also Health tourist who come to England for £30,OOO Heart surgery for free. Also E-U immigrants who come to work hear maybe 30 to 40 year old and have only just started paying National insurance in England but they still get free health care. SO to answer the post of course we Brits pay , for our self and anyone else that want to abuse our system..

Well I know its tax money that pays for it so technically everyone pays into it. I'd still find it preferable to what we have here you have to pay fees for medical care, pay taxes and most have to pay an insurance company to make bills more affordable if you can manage to afford to be able to have insurance...I have no issues with taxes so long as it goes into funding public services the government here misues money though and some people still abuse the system which really only hurts people who really need the help.

A weird thing in England national lottery money is used to build hospitals, so you buy a lottery ticket and pay again another form of tax. when you get your medicare will that be better for you. little story a bricklayer not far from m won the URO lottery £ 67, 000,000 he is 42 an still bricklaying, the only thing he bought was a bmw and a box in Manchester united football club. If he gave that to a the local NHS we would be flying, ps me I would start with buggati varon, Nissan skyline GT4 ,ECT, ECT