Ever noticed?

How people who were abused..... become abusers.

How people who were rejected..... reject others.

Isn't that part of what most of us are here for? To try to break those ugly cycles?

{{{{{{{{{{{{Fuzzy}}}}}}}}}}}}}} Not every victim turns out to be a perp, Hon.

These things and more were done to me. Do you consider me abusive and have I rejected you?

No I don't... that is what I said, (although maybe in a less positive way)....that is partly why most of us are here.... because we refuse to repeat those ugly cycles ((((((((((((((( Tomi )))))))))))))

remember it's those of use who want to heal and survive that care for others most

(((((((((((((( Angie )))))))))))))))

I'm trying to break the cycle. I am trying to raise my kids in a completely different way than I was raised. I even train my animals in a non-abusive way, using only positive reinforcement. I hate the ugly scars of abuse and will not put those I love through it.

Thanks for posting hon! I don't have cubs (yet?). I do find that positive reinforcement works so much better than the abusive, hideous alternative that some use

That's why it's so important to heal your wounds! I think it's the people whoo suppress these things that end up where they started.

You are right... people who suppress...... or deny

fuzz....you're such a good bear.....

Thanks Julia..... I've been missing you ..

then how do i stop supressing?

therapy?
not insisting on blaming others?
want me to write a book?

Hugs if ok
Fuzzy


It's a good question.... maybe someone will give a better answer than I did....I hope so!

The fact that you are on this site means you know that whatever happened was wrong... so you are not supressing it, just hiding it. There is a difference. When you deny that it happened or try to justify it, then you must worry. You'll be fine Alf... you just need more time. When you are ready for it your mind will let you know and you will be able to talk about it. Don't force it.

But fuzzy is right... therapy is almost a must...

the first step in healing is to realize you're sick. talk about the stink of burning brakes on that one...... that's probably why some won't stop. Keep running strying to stay ahead of the stink....... But, once we stop, and deal with the overtaking black cloud, find a safe place, clean ourselves up, and figure out how to start new ways, and aren't spending all our energy on denial....... whew, heavy price tag, but, I ain't going back there to the stinking pit if I can help it!!!

I have to be responsible to myslef for myself. I have to discover and honor my boundaries, whether they are physical limitations, mental limitations, social limitaions, what-ever limitations-- the lessons I have learned must be remembered and implemented by me. I have to decide to stop beatnig my head against the wall.... then figure out a healthy was to achieve whatever, or let go, or ask for help.......

It's a lot of work. Most people have no idea what you're going through and it feels very lonely. Finding new ways to look at and respond to *everything*. Takes a heap of commitment. Takes courage. Takes hitting bottom enough times to make you angry enough to have the energy to start the process.

Each of us hits our point of change when our ducks are in the right row. I just try to always do my best, then try to forgive myself when I bloody my knees while working on lining up the ducks.... asking forgiveness.... humbling work. Not for everybody, eh? The only thing that saves me is to remember "A humble person cannot be humiliated.". Laughing at myself in places that used to evoke rage..... signs of healing, AAA ticket ride.

))))))) hillbunny (((((((

Thanks for the thought provoking but compassionate post, as always......

((((((((((((( Tanya ))))))))))))

I'm sorry to disagree with you Fuzzybear.

It is a huge misconception to think that if you have been abused that you will then become an abuser.

I find that insulting actually.

Sorry pegasus. I certainly didn't mean to insult anyone. My wording was off. I didn't mean that people who have been abused become abusers. What I meant is that SOME people who have been abused become abusers. I have been the recipient of that myself.

Sorry again

"Isn't that what most of us are here for? To try to break those ugly cycles?"

Am I really a bear of Little Brain?

Beginning to thiink I must be.

deleted

Fuzzy, if others misunderstand and don't read your explanations of what you meant that's not your fault. Your thoughts and suggestions are quite good. It is a fact that those who have been abused become the abusers. You weren't saying that ALL who were abused will become abusers but I'm sure some here fear they might (I did, that's why I didn't have children of my own!). But it's also quite true that one can't "help" or solve a problem if one doesn't recognize it is a problem. Those who abuse obviously don't recognize the problem. Those who are here do, just like you say, that IS why we're here; so the problems won't continue; either for us or for others around us.

No I don't agree that everyone that has been abused become abuser and everyone that has been rejected rejects others.

I have met many many survivors in real life who hold down jobs in which they have to deal with working with others and do so with no problems at all. and I have met many many survivors who have many many loved ones and friends in their lives. In fact there are many many survivors out there in real life that feel MORE comfortable having lots and lots of people in their lives due to the isolation and so on that they went through that comes along with abuse because if there are more people in their lives they are less apt to become victimized again. Perpetrators work to isolate so a majority of the survivors that I have met "deisolate" themselves so that they won't get abused again.

and as for abuse victims ALWAYS becoming abusers - No I have met many many survivors who do not become abusers and in fact there are many many survivors out there that put themselves and the abuse they went through right out there in the public eyes for advocasy for stopping abuse not perpetrating the abuse - Laura Davis, Ellen Bass, Karen Marshall, just to name a few very famious ones and then I personally was in a fantastic real time support group where there were many of us that went public and were not abusers but advocating for better laws and teaching teens and adults how to get out of the abusive situations.

and no I don't believe alot of us are here to stop the cycle of abuse and rejection - from reading posts here I know that people first came here because they had a problem be it depression, Schizophrenia, trying to find a therapist, Bipolor Disorder, PTSD, they have been sexually assaulted, and therapists come here to find out what suvivors go through so that they can help their clients better or like me their client has told them that they are here and invited them to come on it.

There are many reasons why people come to psychcentral and if that reason why they came here was because they wanted to break the cycle of abuse and rejection all the posts that that person made would solely be about the world views, concerns and actions for breaking the cycle of abuse and rejection.

We are all here because we had a problem and used the search engines and links to locate help for ourselves concerning those problems of having DID, Depression, PTSD, Bipolor, Schizophrenia, Borderline Personality Disorder being sexually assaulted.

Once we get here we support others as they to heal from their own problems.

Yes there are a few or more of us here in this SUPPORT group that are active and here in part to break their abusive cycles and rejection in their lives or they have personally inflicted but even then their main goal is healing from the problems that brought them here.

A person cant breaak those cycles on line. No matter what we do on line those cycles will continue in the real world. yea there are millions and millions of people on line and those that advocate and want to change the cycles can spread the word but like a person who has a history of suicide and self injury and so on it takes real time help to break cycles.

The way to break the cycle of abuse is to say no to our abusers and get real time therapy help for those problems.

The way to break a cycle of rejection is to allow people in your real time life. Its easy to let people on line "in" but they are not REALLY "in" we rarely have face to face contact with the on line people so we can type anything we want and hey if the person rejects us they are not REALLY rejecting us they are rejecting the words that they see on their screens. There are probably plenty of so called friends on line that some may in real life reject be it because of the persons race, religion, politics, beliefs,... how many of us in real life on our errends and so on actually stop to talk to someone who has less money then we have, look different because of a handicap or color or sit in real time support groups and because we don't like what the person is saying we know there is no way out side of that group a friendship will be... but yet here on line because those clues and so on are not right in our real life its easy to accept and not reject.

Its kind of like when I post my blog and there are people on line who reject and slam my personal experiences and knowledge with my having DID, my researching DID and so on.

People didn't want that stuff on the public boards or me here so a full out war to get my info and experiences taken off here and me banned happened. If people were here to break the cycle of abuse and rejection that situation would not have happened. People would have read my posts and accepted them for MY experiences and knowledge and used their ignore icons if it bothered them. and this is not the only situation that has happened here with the issue of rejection. From time to time disagreements pop up. if people werre here in part to break the cycle of rejection they would use the ignore icon instead of fighting by pm or on the boards because they would be accepting everyones views as that persons and it would not be taken personally.

Rejection of people here on the public boards has gotten better. more and moe people here are accepting each other. But when reading other peoples blogs I see many many situations where people here do still practice rejection of people be it those they meet on line and those they meet in their real time life. If they were here in part to break the cycle of rejection they would be accepting people everywhere not just on community message boards. They would not be rejecting people in their blogs and they would not be rejecting in their real lives.

And no Im not exempt from practicing rejection behaviors on line and in my real life. in my blog I reject the points of view that are slamming my blog. I do so by shutting off my comments area. My readers don't need to be subjected to reading name calling, swearing and so on. And when people do so by email to me I reject them. I do so by not replying and deleting the email. They can have their personal opinions of me that Im not rejecting. They don't like me because of what I post in my blog.. ok I accept that. but like face to face contact I dont have to subject myself to people who swear at me and so on. In real life I walk away from that kind of behavior. I let them have their say because thats their personal opinions and views and I walk away.

Rejection is everywhere no matter who the person is and what they are doing. I reject foods I don't like, I reject animals I dont like and I reject people I don't like. Rejection is just a part of life. Just like life and death rejection is always going to be in a persons life. I beieve there is no cycle of rejection. It just is. When someone isn't doing their job they are fired, when someones writing entry does not fit a particular magazine the person gets a rejection letter, when a person submits a manuscript for publishing they get a rejection letter, when we don't like a medication we skip a dosage or not take that medication - thats rejection, heck even our bodys practice a form of rejection - when we have a virus or bacteria the white blood cells kill off the dangerious bacteria and virus cells, we eat something and suddenly our bodys are rejecting that by creating an allergic reaction.

Everyone is different they have different tollorance levels, different points of view, different likes and dislikes and because of this there is rejection. the only way to get rid of rejection is if each and every person here and in our real lives were clones of each other.

Fuzzy said: </font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
How people who were abused..... become abusers.

How people who were rejected..... reject others.

Isn't that part of what most of us are here for? To try to break those ugly cycles?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

<font color="blue">Fuzzy, while I don't believe your hypothesis would hold up in a real debate, I do understand how you could draw those ideas from life observation.

There are a myriad of factors that must be considered when arguing this premise. What occurred, at what stage of life, whether there was previous abuse, whether there is family belief/support for the victim, and indeed whether the victim developed PTSD from the abuse.

Now...on to what I think you are trying to portray... Yes, I do see a lot of abuse displayed/shared even here on PC. Many ppl might think only in black and white regarding being abused and abusing others. What I look at is how someone treats herself, also. Someone who has been abused might not lash out at others, for fear of retaliation and more abuse, but might very much engage in self harming techniques.

Even if not a physical type of abusing, someone who has been abused and has not regained any real self esteem might not feel worthy of good things, and thus neglect taking care of herself, denying good things in life to herself. Someone might not eat right, or make sure they sleep well, or she might even find jobs that are demeaning as an attempt to reenact the abuse she inherently internalized.

Depending upon how one reads statistics will depend upon where one lands on this thought of the abused becomes an abuser. I have read that most abusers were abused themselves. But that can't be read the same as most abused become abusers. (Though, as I stated above, if all of the consequences of abuse are taken into account, someone does become abusive to a point, imo.)

Sometimes ppl who were abused, abuse themselves by reaching out to others in an extreme way, overdoing, trying to make others like them, giving gifts and time without regard to their own true needs.

Now the idea that all those who were rejected also reject others... I'm not nearly as sure as that.

Again, logitudinal studies prove that it depends upon many factors, a main one being at what point the abuse/neglect happened, what stage of learning and if it was countered with good family support and understanding.

IMO we all felt rejection as children (and indeed continue to notice it as adults!) We were unprepared to handle it as children and had to learn self care when it happened. If it were a parent rejecting, then the outcomes could certainly be rejection of everyone and everything loving (or supposed to be loving.) Or, it could develop a loving nature, one that refused to hate or reject as they were.

Most all of the members here are here for self help, and many more are here to help with a family member or friend.

Now that I've written a mini book for you... let me say it more succinctly: Yes, it's man's nature imo to treat others the way he is treated. It takes knowledge to realize what is truth, and wisdom to act accordingly.

((((fuzzybear)))) Please don't delete your posts without saving them! I want to read what you have to say, and how you think

Thanks for the replies, Perna, myself and Sky

I found your reply particularly interesting Sky

Thanks for your thoughts, myself.....

Thanks for your reply and for validating what I was trying to say, Perna. I do also see pegasus' point though.....