Normal

Id have to strongly disagree with the statement that everyone suffers from some form of mental illness...kind if invalidating to people who actually suffer from mental disorders that significantly interfere with their life.

In psychology what I learned is everyone likely has a trait or more that would be simular to traits of certain mental disorders...some people might have a couple traits of OCD without having the disorder, same with lots of other disorders. It is only considered a mental disorder/illness/condition ect if you have the symptoms not just a couple traits that could be construed as symptoms and it causes significant impairment in functioning.....Not everyone is suffering from that.

hopefully I don't seem rude, just feel kinda strongly about that I guess.

The members of a support group for folks with depressive disorders I once belonged to decided that "normal" is a setting on the dryer.

I believe what is consdiered "normal" buy the general population depends on so many factors. What is considered "normal" behavoir in one country is different from what is considered "normal" in another. Heck, here in the US "normal" chamges from one part of the country to another.

Personally I believe we make ourselves miserable trying to stuff ourselves into some construct that we believe society sees as "normal." At least that is true for me. If I try to be someone other than who I am I become distressed.

Sorry to those who are angered by people who say there is no normal. I don't believe there is a "normal." What I believe is that there is some nebulous construct that we've been lead to believe is what we are supposed to be. Trying to force oneself to fit that mold creates misery.

sorry, I'm rambling...

Well said hellion. The key feature in the DSM for diagnosing a disorder is that the symptoms have to cause the person significant distress.

You mentioned the example of OCD traits. My co-workers tease me that I am OCD about my paperwork. They are right in that I want my paperwork to be done correctly and accurately. That trasit does not cause me distress. It actully makes me better at my job.

There isn't a single clear cut normal but it is still an actual concept, usually it can be gathered what most people mean when they say 'normal' typically it is referring to what is seen to be typical in that society as far as social interaction and such like...to me being told even that definition doesn't exist and there is under no circumstances any 'normal' just makes things a bit confusing when it comes to trying to talk about my life experiences....I mean I got told a lot of ongoing issues I had where just 'normal' meaning I got no help or understanding about it....I mean I suppose I figure I wasn't just having normal adolescent/teenage issues if I attempted suicide at 15. I guess to me its kind of like if I say how I was mostly bullied and ostracized at school ongoingly even when switching schools a lot.....and someone says well everyone gets bullied..sure I bet everyone has had at least on instance where someone for no reason tries to cause them distress, but I do not think most people where ongoingly bullied and ostracized throughout school, regardless of moving schools repeatedly to the extent it got in the way of them developing a healthy amount of confidence and self worth.

But it is certainly a kind of vague concept with many meanings, as for the dryer though....I thought most said regular, not that it really matters...I suppose normal, typical, regular are even somewhat interchangable and can be used in different contexts.

normal (adj.) c.1500, "typical, common;" 1640s, "standing at a right angle," from Late Latin normalis "in conformity with rule, normal," from Latin normalis "made according to a carpenter's square," from norma "rule, pattern," literally "carpenter's square" (see norm). Meaning "conforming to common standards, usual" is from 1828, but probably older than the record [Barnhart].

As a noun meaning "usual state or condition," from 1890. Sense of "normal person or thing" is from 1894. Normal school (1834) is from French école normale (1794), a republican foundation. The city of Normal, Illinois, U.S., was named 1857 for the normal school established there.

I can only guess at what normal is, because I believe I was born with mental illness.

Normal means well to high-functioning. For example, one sets his/her sights on college, achieves the grades to be accepted into college/university and is able to attend classes, do the work necessary in order to graduate in a timely manner. Find a good (pay and fit) career and along the way have a family that functions well practically and lovingly. Buy a home and a car that is a decent new or late-model vehicle (because you can afford to have at least a decent standard of living). A well-balanced emotional life...not terribly over-sensitive, rejection-sensitive, no rage issues. To be able to sit with friends and discuss adult things like mortgages. Yearly vacations and a week-end away now and then. Going out to dinner and a movie and being able to afford it. And so on. Basically, the American dream. Just a "normal" life.

Not having to be an under-achiever, working for far less than I am innately capable of because I cannot awaken in the morning due to being in either a severe state of anxiety or totally doped up from meds. And being able to work only p/t because I'm so emotional and hyper-sensitive and am afraid of conflict or rejection or the slightest bit of criticism. Somehow I managed to successfully raise my two wonderful children. The one great accomplishment of my entire life.

This is such a pathetic post, really. It's only part of my thoughts on normal. And I wish it wasn't all about money. Anyway, just throwing some thoughts out there.....

Hello, Sister Rags. Not at all pathetic. It came from the heart. We can relate.

I wish you well.

Thanks, glok. I truly appreciate your comment.

wow i learned alot

In my country only 14% people have uni degree. Not sure how many % graduate in "timely" matter, from first uni they studied, without prolongings or dropping one field or having to take year off because they weren't accepted to uni they applied to.
I know this is different from the USA... but just saying.

Also over here many of us live in tiny condos in depressingly looking suburbs that reek of the socialist era. New car? Wow, my family is definitelly not "normal" in American way. Never had car that was less than 10 years old.

Family? What if one chooses to do it solo?

Career? Once I was chatting with my friend from Serbia, back then unemployed. She sadly nodded that it's "normal" down there to be unemployed for long time after getting out of Uni.

And well, let's not even mention what is normal East of my border. Or how normal looked in the times of communism (when homosexuality.... or disagreeing with the party... were mental illness). It was normal to steal ("who doesn't steal from the state, steals from their family"), to cheat, to be two-faced... or complete swine on the way to the top...

So screw these unrealistic goals and definition set by society.

I dislike the word normal. Comfortable in your own skin should be the goal. Which sometimes involves being not "normal". Being at peace doesn't really seem "normal" or the standard lately. If you look closely.... many people are messed up, behind their fancy homes and cars.

Thanks Venus. You gave real examples of what I meant by "normal" differing from place to place. I like your goal of being comfortable in your own skin. Trying to force oneself into some ideal created by society is a sure way to be miserable.

Sister Rags, the definition of "normal" that you gave would mean anyone in the US who is low income is not "normal." I work with at risk kids from low income families. College is not a goal for most of them. Living to adulthood is a "normal" goal for them. New or late-model car? Most of them depend on public transportation. Based on that American Dream definition of "normal" none of these kids are normal. If we compare them to other kids living in the same conditions as them they are "normal."

I'm going to use a personal example of what I mean, and I believe Venus means. I have a medical condition that leaves me exhausted when I come home from work in the evening. "Normal" people do not come home so exhausted that they can not do anything other than crash on the sofa and go to bed by 8:30. I was making myself absolutely miserable berating myself for not being "normal." I should be able to come home ande do things. I should be able to stay up later than 8:30. Afterall "nornmal" people do those things. Like I said I was miserable. Then my pdoc helped me realize that this is what my body needs. This is who I am. Once I learned to be comfortable with me as me I stopped being miserable.

I find it interesting that most are defining "normal" as the middle class white ideal for the US. How many people in this country actually live that way? And of the ones who live that way, how many are happy with their lives? And what about all the people who are not white middle class. Does that mean they are not "normal?"

What Dr. Grohol said in his article. Seeking to be normal has the focus wrong.

Two more articles:

Dare to Be Yourself
The Path to Unconditional Self-Acceptance

We can define our normal, and, in the process, define who we are.

I like this this!

What if "normal" meant that you lived in the moment? You know, zen, mindfulness and aware. I doubt there would be very many normal people by that definition but that's the state I'd like to obtain. Material goods and money would no longer be the goals then and dissatisfaction with life might fall to record lows.

I know, it's idealistic, but then I'm an idealist which of course makes me dissatisfied with the state of the world.

The original question on this thread was "How do you describe your "normal?"

For me, my normal would be as I described. I'm in no way suggesting that my normal fits for others. I have traveled extensively and am well aware of the vast difference between what is considered normal in another land - or another state in the U.S. - and what is the "norm" here in northern California. The standard of living here is extremely high. I didn't create it, so please: Do not blame me for it. If I could I would live in another country - quite gladly, but I can't do that for obvious reasons. In my life I would like to be on a socio-economic level with my friends, the people I grew up with and remain friends with. I hate being invited out for dinner with friends and not being able to attend because I literally cannot afford to...sitting home, lonely and isolated, watching a TV show and pretending I don't really mind not being out having a good time and connecting socially.

For me, I believe mental illness has created an obstacle to what I might have accomplished had I not been MI - especially depression, which is so debilitating. And really, it is not only about money. It's about self-accomplishment. It's about shame.

I believe I have done incredibly well considering that I am quite bipolar. I have raised wonderful children and I have traveled a lot, and will travel in the future when the money is (hopefully) there. Nevertheless, I wish I had the money this week-end for gas so I could drive to the coast and hike among the redwoods instead of sitting in my sweltering-hot house in 105 degree temperatures - and having to borrow $7 from my daughter for food money.

I commend you, Sister Rags.

I just think you are too hard on yourself and letting California to get to you more than needed. Again, I think you could get out if you wanted to.

Us coffeeshop intellectuals like to whine about how the USA brought us crisis, with their unrealistic mortaged lifestyles.

That is my point. Maybe the whole unrealistic standards aren't really something to aspire to. Pay money you don't have to spend on things you don't need or want to impress people you don't like? Don't get me wrong, it's happening in Prague.

So why shame over not having fancy car or money to blow on overpriced meals?

Good post, Venus, thank you. The thing is I do like - even love - my friends. Most of them were people I quite literally grew up with from babyhood. I am closer in many ways with some of my girlfriends than I am with my own blood sisters. And those friends are so much more resilient than I am. They cope with life more effectively and accomplish things with less effort than it takes for me to accomplish something. Oh, they have their problems for sure...but their problems seem to be more "normal" problems. Their houses are always immaculate, while my house is always a mess. And I don't understand that, except that while I do work hard I am also very easily exhausted. The exhaustion comes from stress, depression, and medications.

It's pointless to compare yourself to others. Although I do it all the time.

But it helped a lot to compare myself at least to people whose paths are different just because they "do things and have things". Yeah, I wish i was more further in my career.... but I cannot compare myself to my manager friends. I wouldn't have guts and pose for that anyways.

(and then it feels awkward to talk to friends who are unemployed... or in bad places geopolitically... because they probs think I am one lucky beyotch)