Someone please help me understand something; I searched for some time for a site like this one, where people who actually "get it" are here to support one another towards better mental health.
What I seem to find though, is so many people in pain, who seem so comfortable in their pain that they are not willing to get help.
I struggle to say this out loud, as there are those who have been there for me when I was down, but I really struggle to continue to be a part of this society where I feel that people just want to feel sorry for themselves and to drag others down with them.
I struggle too, I have a hard time holding on somedays myself; but I WANT to be healthy, and am making steps in order to achieve this.
I can no longer relate with the constant self-defeating and pity parties for one's self that is so rampant in here.
This site could be so wonderful! This could be what I thought it was, a site for encouraging one another and sharing our journey...granted, our journey is going to include some downfalls, I have them too, but this site should be about mental health (emphasis on health); and I just feel like everywhere I turn I mostly see those who want a place where they can tell everyone how bad life if...If we're here, it's because we already know how bad life "Can be" (not IS).
Is it productive to complain ALL the FREAKIN' time? Life has dealt many of us a crappy deck of cards, but it is ultimately up to us to play that hand. I find myself just wanting to say "GET OVER IT!!!" I don't want to be a jerk, and apologize if I have offended anyone, but I am here because I care: I care about my own health, and I do care about your health too. Please, consider that there is hope for a better tomorrow; but recognize that it won't happen unless you MAKE it happen.
My own struggle with deciding which path to take as far as meds is concerned, and my opposition in general to psych. meds all along is that I see so many on meds who are no better off than they were before they began treatment (whether with meds or with therapy).
Life is special; each one of us are special too...if we can't see that in ourselves, then no one will see it in us either.
Blessings & Health,
Jon

KICK THE CABLE HABIT!!! http://www.vmcsatellite.com/?aid=84152

[lost_lonely]

WOW! I had no idea you felt this way, Jon! What you say is very true though, it's like that old saying I once heard:
"The best helping hand you're going to get is at the end of your own arm."
I want to be happy and healthy as well, and even with my limitations, I'm trying as best I can. It's a good point you brought up, though, as many of us have trouble finding the good in any situation.
Gosh, I hope you don't feel that way about me! I'm sorry if I have brought you down at any time Jon, but I'm still glad you brought this up. It's something to think about.

(((((((((((((((jon)))))))))))))))))

[gloria]

I'm sorry you feel that way... I agree with you in regards to some people wanting to sit on their pain and don't do much about it, however, I can tell you this web site and the loving people that have talked to me ( including you ) has helped me become stronger and every day more ready for what I'm about to do with my life.
I could not be where I am without the support of a bunch of people here ... I have still a little way to go, but I can tell you .... I am much stronger now and more ready every day because of people like you.

gab

(((((LOST)))))
Thanks; I somewhat agree with the quote you mentioned, but I am learning that there are times when we do need to ask for help. What limitations are you referring to? You are very honest about your feelings, and that is very admirable, but don't give up too easily; there are professionals out there who can help...Thanks for your reply.
Jon

KICK THE CABLE HABIT!!! http://www.vmcsatellite.com/?aid=84152

(((((GLORIA))))))Please don't be offended; if you are one of those who are on the rocky journey towards health, then I am not referring to you...I'm pretty much just venting because I feel "bogged down" sometimes by those who appear to me to just complain all the time and seem content that this is the way the rest of their life has to be.
I just wish that I could impress upon people that there is an alternative to simply "surviving" but it doesn't just happen on its own.
Anyway, sorry if I've offended anyone, as this was not my intention.
Blessings,
Jon

KICK THE CABLE HABIT!!! http://www.vmcsatellite.com/?aid=84152

[gloria]

Don't worry about me being offended ... I didn't.
and believe me I hear you about people finding their "comfort zone" in a "discomforting life". It is a little bit of a shame ...
but it is all about choices, theirs and ours.

Thank you so much for being one of those willing to help people see they have choices, and then letting them make them. Be happy for those that make the changes they need to improve the quality of their life. Pray for those that don't, and then move on to the next one.

gab

[lost_lonely]

The quote came from my mother, actually. She uses it quite frequently. When I said limitations, I just meant money, insurance and how far I can travel, since for the moment, (Hopefully that's coming to an end in 10 days!) I can't drive. I'm not using these issues as exuses or reasons not to seek help, it's just harder in these circumstances, though probably still not impossible.
I've been through a lot in the past few weeks, and I believe it's made me stronger. That's why I came to this site in the first place, seeking ways to help better myself and my life.

There are stength in numbers, and if we can all complete this journey if we just keep trying. I'll try to help others here, as well as myself.

Thanks for the uplifting thoughts, Jon!

((((((((((((((((((jon))))))))))))))))))
((((((((((((((((((jon)))))))))))))))))
((((((((((((((((extra hugs for u!)))))))))))))))))))

[wisewoman]

Reading your post caused me self recrimination. I am always the first person to tell myself to get over it and move on and be strong and stop whining. I feel like other people think that too. All I can say to you is that I have been working my fanny off for a long time. I am not comfortable with my pain, I want relief. But I can't waive a magic wand, wish I could. I am trying to learn better ways of coping and trying to find the right meds, work hard in therapy. I pushed myself so hard for a long time through more loss and pain then you can imagine to be the best professional, handle everything, be perfect, and here I am against a wall with a very severe depression. I don't believe in my heart, that anyone of us likes to be in pain. Why would we? We want to feel better and are doing the best we can. If seeing others in pain triggers you too much I am sorry for that. As Ozzie says, we travel at different rates and directions. It is not helpful to feel judged here too.

[dexter]

Jon a lot of your observations also have a lot to do with perception and one's own state of recovery.

I mention that because to me it is kind of funny that you said this... I was a member of three or four other online support sites for depression before I found this one, and the reason I left those places was because to me, they felt like exactly what you are describing... a lot of complaining and comforting but not many looking for real progress or solutions. It was very notable to me and very much turned me off... not as a judgement of them, just as not the type of thing I was looking for.

I obviously perceive this place much differently than you do (hey, that's one of the best and most interesting of human attributes) because I think the majority here are trying to get better or are on the road to better health and looking for more encouragement. Many people are quite negative, but it "feels" to me like they come here to get that "kick in the pants" that they know they need. The few who don't often get called out for it (sometimes not too pleasantly ).

To me, taken in context, I don't find many here looking to merely "wallow". Individual posts may do so--some of mine have lately I know, but most people here also know how hard I have been working for about 8 months now to force myself to do the difficult things to try to get better and be able to get on with my life. I absolutely agree that people have to be working toward progress, but at times when there are setbacks I also think it is OK to post a "down" post, just to vent, sometimes we all need a break, and it is good to do it with people who "get it" because IRL we would likely be critisized by people who don't understand how difficult this can be.

You're post also made me think about the occasional "pity party" posts and specifically that is the kind of thing that turned me off at other sites. I enjoy them here because they are lighthearted, they are "attended" by people who are working hard to get better and some who have made great progress in doing so. To me they are almost a "spoof" of the "pity parties" I see at other sites. A ton of people feeling getting together to feel sorry for themselves and wallow in their neediness is a bad thing... a ton of people feeling bad and choosing for a short time to take a break and acknowledge their pain seems quite different to me. (YMMV . Especially when those threads have a lot of jokes and cyberfood in them .

To touch an even sharper nerve of my own... there's a difference between people who crawl into a hole because they need for someone to come drag them out of that hole (and of course there's usually a whole lot of disappointment for them when that doesn't happen) and people who climb in a hole because they need a break and invite others to come take a break with them. To me, these other websites seemed "safe" in that if one posted climbing into a hole they were pretty much guaranteed of getting support and strokes toward coming out again. We all need that once in a while but to do that with expectations can be very unhealthy... and is exactly the kind of "comfort with their pain" that I think you are talking about. It becomes about secondary gain. I don't think that is tolerated for too long here... of course doing that or not doing that is another point of subjective perspective.

One thing I like here is when someone is feeling really down, they are free to post about it and also free to ask for support. In my eyes, climbing into a hole merely to make someone come in to drag you out is manipulative and unhealthy. Here people are free to come straight out and ask for a hug or for some well-wishes if they need them, and to me that is very healthy... a healthier situation than exists generally in our society I think.

------------------------------------
--http://www.idexter.com

[Rapunzel]

What Dexter said. And also what Ozzie said about us all being at different levels.

When I started the most recent pity party thread, I was a little down, but I figured having a party would be a more fun way to get some support than if I were to just post about being miserable and wanting to hurt myself, and that maybe we could all have some fun with it. I still have ups and downs, but I've come along way. I didn't used to have ups.

When someone is perpetually miserable, and people try to help them and that person just persists in being hopeless and miserable, it does get frustrating. Then it feels like all of our efforts are futile, and that's even more discouraging when the people trying to help are still struggling themselves. But sometimes that's where that person is. I've been accused of wallowing too. Maybe sometimes wallowing is ok, as long as it doesn't go on too long, but you are right in that wallowing doesn't get anybody anywhere. Even when others try to throw the wallower a rope and pull them out, it is still up to them to grab onto the rope and make some effort to get out of the hole.

So, you do have a point. Wallowing forever doesn't help. But there is a difference between wallowing in a hole and expecting to be rescued, and having an off day or week and asking for some support. If the people having a party in a hole are actually having fun and enjoying each other's company, then we aren't really stuck and miserable even if we were close to that situation, and even if we invite others who are stuck in their own individual holes to move over and join in with us at the party hole. Maybe misery loves company, but sometimes company can dispel misery too. It's a fine line - all a matter of attitude. I guess you can tell the difference by how the conversation goes down in that hole. Is it, "life is so miserable," or "come share good food and company with me for a while."

<font color=orange>"Success is the ability to go from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm. - Winston Churchill "</font color=orange>

Thank you Gloria; I appreciate your kind words; I just wish I could show the way, there is so much hope--I don't say this because the world is all rosey for me right now, because it's not; perhaps I say this to remind myself what it could be like.
You hang in there too.
Blessings & hope,
Jon

KICK THE CABLE HABIT!!! http://www.vmcsatellite.com/?aid=84152

(((((((((((((LOST)))))))))))))
Yes, you have come a long way; I am so proud of you; just don't let the bad days decide what the rest of your days will turn out like. Believe me, you WILL have some more bad days...you're still a young thing, with so much life ahead of you, I know that you will make the best of it. You're a sweetie with so much passion to offer, I'm sure that you will use it for good.
Peace,
Jon

KICK THE CABLE HABIT!!! http://www.vmcsatellite.com/?aid=84152

As your name suggests, you speak very wisely; I do not know your story, and forgive me if this speaks to you. In my post I am also speaking to myself as I find myself really depressed and needing to hear these words from a friend. I thought for so long that if I told myself to "get over it" then perhaps I would; it took me WAY TOO LONG to ask for help, and it's still difficult for me. I'm sorry if you felt judged by me in here, as that was not my intent--I do not know you, and I truly wish you the best, it sounds as though you're a fighter...keep fighting! You can defeat these demons that haunt us.
(((((WISEWOMAN)))))
Blessings upon you,
Jon
PS. It's not seeing others in pain that triggers me...it's people who refuse to get help...perhaps because I want so badly to help them and I feel helpless. Who knows.

KICK THE CABLE HABIT!!! http://www.vmcsatellite.com/?aid=84152

DEX, Thank you for your post...I will try to look at it from that perspective; I do find much truth to what you are saying, as I have been one who has posted a few "downers" too; perhaps I was a little harsh in my initial post and if it has offended any I sincerely apologize--all I can say is that I have realized that no one is going to crawl in after us and make us come out of our "hole" as you say. As this is my first online support forum, this is my first experience with any kind of support in this manner; as a matter of fact, this is my first "support group" and overall have found it to be quite useful.
I have had my ups and downs; and perhaps I expect too much from others and also myself...I think perhaps I rely too much on the proverb "fake it 'til you make it."
As far as Rapunzels "Pity Party" I happen to love it...lots of good food there.
If my post has offended anyone, I apologize; perhaps it is meant to serve as a "kick in the pants" not only for you, but maybe especially for me.
I don't sit high above and look down, I am looking up and hoping that I can achieve the ideals that I have set for myself...Sometimes 'tis a lonely road, but I am a warrior, and I will continue to wage war against my demons.
(((((DEXTER)))))
Peace,
Jon

KICK THE CABLE HABIT!!! http://www.vmcsatellite.com/?aid=84152

As I replied in Dexter's reply to my post, I LOVE your pity party post; I believe like you said it was something that you posted while feeling down and was hoping for a little fun...as you've seen I've been there offering food a few times myself. I too am on that same journey, and there are times (sometimes extended times) that the journey chases us into a little hole, but like you so eloquently stated, what we do when we're in that hole is up to us.
I choose to regroup, re-think, and refocus my attention to one day living again. I'm not there yet, don't think of me as one who is "all better" and trying to hurry everyone else up; but think of me as one inviting others to join me on a more positive path.
Sometimes the way is dark and long, but it is a path worth walking.
Blessings,
Jon

KICK THE CABLE HABIT!!! http://www.vmcsatellite.com/?aid=84152

[Rapunzel]

{{{{{{{{{Jon}}}}}}}}}}

Sometimes we need a kick in the pants. Sometimes we need someone to take our hand and show us the way out of the hole. I think that asking for help is a really positive thing. It's better than suffering silently or trying to manipulate people into feeling sorry for us.

Thanks for joining my party, and for your food contributions. I'm really glad that you have come to this site.
In Friendship,
Wendy

<font color=orange>"Success is the ability to go from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm. - Winston Churchill "</font color=orange>

Thank you kindly maam; I appreciate it, and if needed you can kick me in the seat of the pants; just save that as a last resort if I get down and need to get off my *** and quit feeling sorry for myself.
((((({{{Wendy}}})))))
Jon

KICK THE CABLE HABIT!!! http://www.vmcsatellite.com/?aid=84152

[darkeyes]

I am not offended, but I thought and feel I have given positive support to many here, just ask some people here.
Sure I have issues, some worst than others but I have worked on them with the help of professionals and meds and have made a big step forward, I am NOT in a pity party.
In life no matter where you go, no matter what mental health site you are going to find people that can't or maybe refuse to get better, it isn't just this site where this type of stuff happens, if one is depressed and negative that is all one will see, being blinded by their own doing or their depression and will not see the brighter side here and in life, perhaps your depression is not allowing you to see there is a lot of positive replies at the forums and positive results.
If a person is just drawn to the bad in life that is all they will see. I see this with my mom, she seems to enjoy making others miserable due to her own depression and negativity towards life and others, she finds only bad in everything, she knocks someone down who is finding pleasure in living. . . I am elated she is finally leaving my home and getting her own place where she can sleep all day (she does 16 - 20 hours per day) and take her miserable, depressing, nasty attitude with her, this sort of baggage I do not need, for I have worked hard at getting better, and I want to live my life and enjoy every day possible.
I wish luck to you with whatever website you find, and I am sorry you seem to be unhappy with this one.

Take care and enjoy life to the fullest, for it is short.

DE

In giving advice seek to help, not please your friend
SOLON

(((((D.E.)))))
I am not interested in finding another website; I like this one; I do think you and MANY others have given positive support here. Yes, I agree with your statement about people being blinded by "their own doing or their depression" and I know that often that statement can apply to me, but you also state about your mom "she seems to enjoy making others miserable due to her own depression and negativity towards life and others"; my post was about no one in particular, I was venting my impressions, but could it be that I see in some posts here what you see in your mother? I wouldn't dare say to you that you are "blinded by your own doing and depression" in reference to your mother, why would you direct that statement towards me?
I am on a journey, as are many others; there are SO MANY great people like you here who offer support and willingly accept it too; these are not the type of people that drag me down.
However, (in my opinion) there are many people like what you describe your mother to be in these forums with absolutely no intention of ever getting better; those are the people I'm referring to. Part of my post was just my venting, part of it perhaps was to speak to myself because I too get down and feel like staying down at times, the other part was to start a dialogue and at least be honest about my feelings and discuss this. I apologize if this has hit a nerve or offended you; this was not my intention; I just want you to think that perhaps there are those in here that drag me down much like your mother does you...
(((((HUGS2ALL)))))
Jon

KICK THE CABLE HABIT!!! http://www.vmcsatellite.com/?aid=84152

[darkeyes]

Oh Jon, I am not offended, you are speaking your mind, many of us need to do that too, it is healthy. I only used my mom as an example to those that may read your post and by no means was it directed to you, I hope you didn't think I meant it for you. Depression is a tricky, evil thing, it can sneak up and bite us in the butts, sometimes so paralyzing we just can't find the mental strength to move. In my own personal case, several years ago I was falling victim to it but first thought I was physically sick and was raising my kid and keeping up with chores, then the excessive fatigue brought me to making a doc visit, that is when after having all bloodwork done my GP decided it was depression, so we went down the SSRI's trip, helping some what, but I forced myself to get into volunteer work, a good distraction while still on meds. gradually got off of them to only have a few years go by and having my world rocked with some family things, I went "bonkers" and was DXed by a psychologist and pdoc as mild bipolar-II, been under meds for that for now 4 years.
I'm doing alright, get through life's ups and downs okay. . . I think. Everyone is indvidual and so are their forms of depression and/or mental disorders, some people can "snap out of it" but many need more than just a "nudge", due to chemical imbalances in the brain and/or hormonal imbalances which can greatly contribute to many problems, mentally and/or physically.
The longer a person does not recieve professional help the longer recovery will take, and those that deny their problem and refuse to seek help have a slim chance of ever getting out of their funk. It saddens me or should I say it frustrates me when there is hope, there is help people can get but rather whine and stagnate themselves by their own choice.
Ah, who is to say who wants to stay in a funk or really does want to seek help, I have no answer.
But my advice to all that are in a funk longer than 2-3 weeks ought to seek professional help, sometimes we can't do it all alone, what is important that we do something.
I think I understand your post and I hope my replies make sense. I am not offended and hope I haven't said anything to offend you, I was just throwing in some ideas from the "think tank".
I am happy that you come to the forums and do find positive replies you make to others very helpful
And hey, if we come here to whine or moan, that is cool too, as long as we can reach out to one another and with hope help lead those in need out of the darkness

(((((((((((((((((((((( Jon ))))))))))))))))

Sincerely,
DE

In giving advice seek to help, not please your friend
SOLON

Thanks for clarifying yourself; and I appreciate your thoughts; I am grateful that you're a kind soul; I wish you the best on your journey and appreciate all that you have to offer.
May you find blessings come your way.
Jon

KICK THE CABLE HABIT!!! http://www.vmcsatellite.com/?aid=84152

[SeptemberMorn]

JON, I've had and expressed the same feelings you are having. I was given the same advice you have been given. Not everybody is in the same stage of recovery nor are we all as ready to leave our comfort zone as the next person.

I've been down so deep in the hole that I couldn't see daylight. I've also been out of the hole. One thing for certain, Life in general has it's ups and downs and we with mental health issues are no exception whether we're on meds or in therapy or none of the above.

In my experience, my highs have been higher and my lows have been lower. A week ago, I was riding high, this week, I want to stay mostly in my solitary hole. I don't want to be strong! I don't want "to get over it!" Sometimes it's damned near impossible to take yourself by the bootstraps and pull yourself up. Sometimes you want help, sometimes you don't, depending on the severity of the situation or how each individual's brain chemicals are working. We can't simply "get over it." It doesn't work that way anymore than you can tell a cancer patient "get over it."

In my opinion, I'm usually one that is always on top. Sometimes I feel that I can help encourage someone and sometimes it's all I can do to keep myself on top. There have been events in my life the last three days that I just don't want to get over just like that. Two of those events are deaths of people I loved very much in as many days. It's not good "to get over it." The grief process has to be gone through. However, the culmination of events that happened last night CAN be done something about. It's just getting the energy to get up and look in the phone book for a Family Mediator and then there's the energy and fortitude I have to work up to talk to a family member to convince him that is the right way to go... and all this while I'm grieving over my lost loved ones.

As a matter of fact, I am getting ready to post to my friends here that I need attention! I need validation! I need some words of encouragement! I AM IN PAIN and I need the love and care that my understanding friends here can give me. It's difficult for me to ask for help, but ask I will! I don't know how long it will take me to recover from these blows, but however long it takes, it's okay by me because I've learned that each one of us grows at different speeds and it's okay to give yourself permission to stop and rest, especially if you've been bustin' buns to stay afloat.

I also believe that everything happens for a purpose and that each of us is right where we're supposed to be. There are more lessons to be learned than just climbing back out of a hole and finding the right toe holes. There are lessons to be learned in the dark pit of despair and depression as well as the lessons learned climbing out and being on top.

Ozzie is right in saying that those who are on top also need to learn patience. There have been times when I've thrown a fit, literally, because I sensed the inaction of others here on the board. I threw my fit because I needed dragged out of the hole I was in but had not recognized it. In essence, I was screaming "Will someone PLEASE make a move upward so that I can latch on to your belt loop and I can take a step forward, too!?" You know what? She found me! My angel on this board found me and PMed me her "belt loop." You want to know something else? She hasn't been "on top" for a while but yet she had an insight to my problem and helped me however she could. Lucky for me, it was exactly what I was needing.

I will leave you with this quote: "If you're not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem." I don't mean to offend or hurt because it's a quote I use on myself quite often.





<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

[inkblot]

Re: "...who seem so comfortable in their pain that they are not willing to get help."

Jon, I understand what you mean, but I think that with a lot of us--especially and including myself--can be afraid to ask for or get help, or to even accept the help. It's like we want it, but we can be afraid, too. I don't have much time to post at the moment. Chat is about to start, and I've got literally about 2,000 new posts to scan from the past two days!

[wisewoman]

Hi Sept, I am here and I want to know what's up with you the last few days? Deaths? Are you okay? Can I help? I am sorry that you are hurting. Definately do the grieving thing as you can. Grief is a personal process. Good luck to you.

[SeptemberMorn]

Thank you, WiseWoman. You'll understand if I don't tell the whole story all over again here, don't you? You can read most of it in Grief and Loss. I think I named it something like "Sad News..." or something like that.





<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>