Discussion - "Do" Is Better Than "Do Not"

This is a discussion topic

There are times when people in our lives tell us what to do and what not to do.
I have found out, when people tell us what not to do, it mostly does not help. Because there are things in life we seek to do so we can live our lives and be free. Telling us what not to do blocks our freedom.
The thing about telling someone what not to do regarding blockage of freedom is, it happens when no alternative path is given instead.

For example person A smokes because of depression. Then person B tells them not to smoke and find a better way to cope.
This is problematic because obviously, person A found a way to cope and person B attempted to take that from him without giving anything in return. In conclusion, person B did NOT help person A!
In a different scenario, person B could offer different solutions such as Antidepressants and Therapy. NOW person B is actually helping. Person A may not have the money or time for the alternatives, but at least they now know of other possibilities to cope with depression.
If person B could help them find time, or find ways to earn money, THAT's becoming great help.

I have nothing else to say. I kind of struggled to express the idea but I hope I'll be able to express it further later on if anyone needs any elaboration or regardless of that

People that do this do kind of seem like they're just coming from a place of being on a moral high horse, don't they? Oh I'm helping you because you're doing a horrible thing I would never do, so I'll help you by just telling you to stop, because you never thought of that on your own lol

I legit had a 'mental health professional', when I ended up drunk and suicidal in the ER once, ask me if I had a plan, and when I said yes, they said "well alcohol exacerbates depression symptoms, and it counteracts with your antidepressants, so you really just need to quit drinking." and sent me home V_V luckily, every other mental health professional I talked to after that actually gave me resources to HELP me quit, instead of just being an inconsiderate twatweasel.

I have heard that quitting smoking is one of the hardest habits to beat. The nicotine is highly addictive. All the exsmokers I know say they still crave it sometimes so "do not" is not easy when it comes to so many bad habits.

Yes, I think you must substitut something else. It is my understanding that the antidepressant I take -- Bupropion -- is also used at low doses to help people stop smoking. I also think it is nearly impossible to make significant changes when a person is under stress.

Of course the root cause of many bad habits is underlying stress and trauma. This plus our genetics is why some people can drink alcohol moderately their entire lives while others eventually become alcoholics. I find this article interesting in regard to why we have mental illnesses:

Grandma's Experiences Leave Epigenetic Mark on Your Genes | DiscoverMagazine.com

That is a remarkable article. It also has a component part to what I'm trying to say regarding "Do" is better than "Do Not". As said on page 3, first section, last paragraph:
As I said, better to do than not to do.

Moreover, I love how the article comes to show the environment has an impact on us. It makes sense. And I love the open-mindedness of the research to show that the past does not have to leave a permanent mark on the future. And it's true. The most important thing to do is to live the best life possible

I loved smoking. I quit 20 years ago and feel I could easily start smoking again. Yes it was the hardest thing I did and used zyban which was the thing to use to try and quit smoking. I went from 105lbs to a 149lbs in less than a year. It took another year to get down to a 120lbs. I am glad I quit. I had started to feel like a lepor everytime I want to go smoke. All the new rules of where you could an could not smoke and the price. A pack of cigarettes where .55 cents when I started smoking at 13 yrs old.

Just so you guys know, smoking is not the topic, but an example for it

I don't smoke except weed on occasionally

I think I may need to work on how I represent the topic

I absolutely understand your point, VO. For a long time in my life I based decisions on what people told me I could not do....just to prove I could do it. I have learned now, not too late, that I'm not going to let people bait me into a decision.

On another note, there have actually been studies, I believe, that show when you tell someone not to smoke it just makes them want to smoke more. LOL. As an ex-smoker, it was absolutely true.

But back to your point, when someone just tells you something obvious, like, well, if you just spent less money on X, your finances would be fine, when they a) don't understand the whole picture and b) don't understand what the ramifications of making that change would be and c) can offer no help in making that change, it's just someone being sanctimonious, in my opinion.

I had people, when I was out of work, question why I didn't move out of my apartment to some place with cheaper rent. And tell me I was making a bad decision by continuing to live in my place. But to move, I would have had to pay 2 months rent to break my lease plus give 60 days notice, so four months rent. Pretty sure I didn't have an extra $4,000 hanging around. Plus I'd have to have the money to move. Money for a deposit on a new place, money to clean my old place, money to hire movers (since I can't do the move myself and have no one to help me)...the cost of moving to save money for a few months when I would inevitably find new work or figure something out was a knee-jerk reaction and did not take into account all the factors. Not to mention other factors as well that I won't go into detail here.

So that's an example of how someone thinks they're being helpful, but really just making you feel bad because they are judging you and your situation without understanding that them just saying "do x" or "stop doing x" is not really a solution. It's just a directive with no real solution behind it.

What's worse is when you tell so called "helpful" people to please stop offering their unsolicited advice and they won't.

Seesaw

Yes, THIS!
This is something I am working on. I keep on insisting I did not ask for advice. I also tend to say "I appreciate the advice but X, Y, Z". That way the "adviser" will feel pleased with themselves and their plastic super-ego and I can go on with my life as planned

"So the best thing you can do is not to worry all the time about whether you’re doing the right thing."

This is a fascinating thread and I have a question for the OP. Is this quote an example of doing or not doing?

Is "not to worry" a DO or a DO NOT? It's a genuine question. I'm not sure of the answer.

I also rid myself of the nicotine addiction finally on July 14, 2015. I did this by committing to not take a puff that day, one day at a time. I committed on a public quit smoking forum and got lots of support for that. I did this every morning and said out loud "I will not take a puff today"...

so i replaced smoking with that ritual and the thought of smoking with the thought of my public commitment.

I agree with many previous comments and have learned from this thread. FWIW, regarding epigenetics, I believe I suffer from multigenerational Holocaust trauma.

This is a very interesting thread, I agree tecomsin.

I sometimes feel that people who have quit something bad, feel a certain "high" of empowerment, and think to themselves "if I did it, why can't you?" I am not saying they are wrong, because yeah, good for them, they were able to overcome something, but making you feel like crap because you are not there yet, by basically telling you to just "do it, quit X, Y and Z" is not helping anybody, really.

What I am getting from your thread is that most people come off as really conscending, instead of offering helpful advice that can start you on the path of recovery, good life or bettering yourself.

I get your point, and I think more people should offer many alternatives to help solve a person's problem, in a way that is not them just "talking down to them" by telling them WHAT to do, instead of HOW to make the change so they do it for themselves.

Great thread.

Yup. People ask me all the time how I quit, and the last thing I do is say I just willed it to happen. I also always say "you know what worked for me may not work for you. Everyone's addiction is different."

And you're spot on about the condescension. It's so absolutely patronizing when someone tells you how easily they fixed whatever problem they have and how you can fix it just as easily as they did.

I particularly hate unsolicited advice. I didn't ask for your opinion, please don't assume I need it. I find there are people in the world who believe that they are not only entitled to their opinion, but entitled to force others to listen to it whether they want to or not. And that isn't really the case. You're not entitled to force your opinion on me.

Oh absolutely! I agree with you 100%! I mean people walk around with their head up in the clouds in their own little bubble of happiness because they have accomplished so much, or beat the addiction that had ruined their lives. And usually, they just want to share it with the world because they are just oh, so proud of themselves. Honestly, I don't think there is anything wrong with being proud of overcoming odds, but they shouldn't PUSH that on other people, because somehow they are now "entitled" to do so.

I am all for bettering yourself, and you're so right for saying "what worked for me may not work for you,' because that is the reality of it, because everyone is unique and different, therefore so are their addictions.

I am proud of you for overcoming your addiction, and I think you're spot on too about how people could be really patronizing when they tell you what you should and should not do.

I've also quit many times, and I went cold turkey the first time, stuck for about 5 years, when I went to quit again, no way I could do cold turkey again.

The last time, I was quitting because it wasn't so great to smoke at work, even in the smoking areas, was frowned upon. So I would wear a patch at work and then have a smoke in the evenings...eventually I just stopped smoking in the evenings too. I don't even really remember how it happened except that I was so over not being able to breathe or talk without coughing that it almost seemed easy because I just couldn't even handle it anymore.

But I think the OP's point is spot on. Telling a person they need to just stop doing whatever it is that's contributing to their problems isn't helpful. Even if you are using a maladaptive coping behavior, it's the only way you know to cope. So instead, help them learn a new way to cope. And show some sympathy and compassion that it's difficult to make lifestyle changes.

Seesaw

One topic I remember relating to the topic I presented is about smart phones and social media.
There are sources (which I can give), which discuss the negative effects of using social media and smart phones. For example, some sources say social media isolates you socially from others. Now it falls to the question of "chicken and egg".
Or for example, a famous motivational speaker encouraged NOT to use smartphones right after getting up, or when going to the toilet.
Now I want to say something about using phones on the toilet. Yep, quirky specification. The speaker encouraged NOT to use the phone while using the toilet so we can "enjoy the moment" and just look at the walls around us.
One thing which was overlooked is in the past, people used NEWSPAPERS while using the toilet. So now it's all just on a small device rather than paper. Besides, it's so flexible and you can do so much with it, such as solve puzzles.
This example strengthens my point where doing is better than not doing - better to solve puzzles or read an article for instance, than to stare blankly at the walls

Just to point out, the example I gave is not a topic of its own. Just an example so let’s keep giving some examples which amplify the main topic of the thread

FWIW this is an issue in the context of public online forums. Well, it is more likely many questions.

It is also not black and white because it can be the case, and often is, that there is simply some miscommunications going on or people happen to put different weight on things.

Getting back to the topic of this thread,

I am often perplexed by whether I am doing or not doing. Sometimes I simply cannot tell the difference. Maybe it is not always black and white.

About addictions, well there are common themes that arise in nicotine addiction. Every person will have there own themes but those themes and memes are often shared by many othe rpeople so one can learn to deal with nicotine demons from other people. That in the end is what enabled me to finally quit for good after many failures.

Of course what works for one person may or may not work for another.

i had my first ciggarrete when i was 5 years old! I got to be 19 and restarted. i am still smoking as vaping and i don't even know the side affects, but i cant even give vaping up. i know there is nicotine in them too. any suggestions on how to quit vaping too? I already know you can go to lower and lower levels of nicotine juice but really need it at a high level.

When you are doing something, you always give up so many other things to do

You're absolutely right that the problem of forcing opinion on others has proliferated with the explosion of social media.

I see your point. But wouldn't it be possible to have a conversation like this:
Person A (smokes because he/she is depressed)
Person B: Hey I am really worried about your health. Is giving up smoking an option for you?
Person A: But I am depressed. That is why I can't just give it up.
Person B: I see. But aren't there other ways to cope for you?
[...] the conversation shifts from "stop it" to "let's find an alternative"

I'm not convinced that you can actually take something from somebody by telling them to stop a harmful behaviour like smoking.

Of course maybe what you mean is that suggesting things is a more constructive way than criticizing and that I agree with.

Telling “do not” is like taking something from you - no one likes having something taken from them
What we all like is to get allot and do allot, as much as possible

I think this is what the OP was saying..don't just tell someone to stop, but help understand the problem and offer an alternative solution.

Yes, you're right seesaw.
We need to help people find ways to live life