[DechanDawa]

I tried to return to Catholic Church full-time this year. By that I mean not just going on holidays. So I volunteered at a local church. But then the **** hit the fan...again...this summer...with so many accusations of sexual misconduct...I felt I had to step away.

For me Christmas was always mainly about church. Without church...I don't see the point.

In fact, I was never aware of how commercial Christmas had become until I stopped going to church.

I don't have friends or family. I am alone. Going to church brought me comfort on holidays. But I just cannot go back.

I haven't found anyone who really understands. Everyone hates the Catholic Church and a lot of people hate religions...with good cause. Still...if one grew up with religion...it can be a comfort.

I am just trying to say that without religion, to me, the holidays are just...really dumb...and all the reindeer and snowman and Santa stuff seems...stupid...or worse, just plain creepy.

Christmas music in stores strikes me as pretty creepy, too.

[nicoleflynn]

I understand...I was abused in a church 18 years ago, and cannot go back...or to any church.

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by nicoleflynn

I understand...I was abused in a church 18 years ago, and cannot go back...or to any church.

I am very sorry about what happened to you. It is just horrific.

[DechanDawa]

I never had a single bad experience in Catholic church or Catholic school. I never heard of or witnessed anything negative. That's the truth. My memories are all positive. That is why it is so puzzling and hurtful. Because nothing bad ever happened to me...but, at the same time...it has happened to others...that makes it all very traumatizing.

[MickeyCheeky]

I'm so sorry you're struggling, DechanDawa I understand what you say. For a religious person, Christmas without Church probably doesn't make a lot of sense, especially if you don't have many people near you at the moment. I'm sorry you have to deal with this

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by MickeyCheeky

I'm so sorry you're struggling, DechanDawa I understand what you say. For a religious person, Christmas without Church probably doesn't make a lot of sense, especially if you don't have many people near you at the moment. I'm sorry you have to deal with this

Thanks. I will probably go to a midnight service at a...Protestant church. It is not my church but they have a midnight candlelight service. I need spirituality during the Christmas holiday because for me it is a spiritual day. Thanks.

[seeker33]

I can fully relate! I'm officially a catholic, too and I don't go to church. However I only have positive experiences there so I don't hate them like some people... It's really complicated...

I've got mixed feelings about Christmas... My mum will probably spend Christmas in hospital getting chemo for her leukemia this year... Not a festive mood at all.
I'm not sure whether I believe in Jesus or not, and secular version of Christmas doesn't appeal to me at all.

I wish you all the best. This too shall pass. I really hope you enjoy your midnight service in the protestant church.

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by seeker33

I can fully relate! I'm officially a catholic, too and I don't go to church. However I only have positive experiences there so I don't hate them like some people... It's really complicated...

I've got mixed feelings about Christmas... My mum will probably spend Christmas in hospital getting chemo for her leukemia this year... Not a festive mood at all.
I'm not sure whether I believe in Jesus or not, and secular version of Christmas doesn't appeal to me at all.

I wish you all the best. This too shall pass. I really hope you enjoy your midnight service in the protestant church.

Thank you. I have had members in hospital during the holidays and it is all around tough. My heart goes out to you. I was once (in another lifetime it seems) a hospital interfaith chaplain and spent many Christmas holidays at the hospital...even having my Christmas dinner there. The hospital (interfaith) chapel is usually a very quiet, peaceful place to find spiritual comfort.

I am going to the christmas eve services at my church and I'm also going to see a choir of all ladies singing carols.

it will be nice

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by raging vortex

I am going to the christmas eve services at my church and I'm also going to see a choir of all ladies singing carols.

it will be nice

Wait a minute...aren't you the Grinch who put down socks for Christmas? Do you think those ladies singing carols would put down socks for Christmas? I don't think so. They would probably wear those cringy Christmas socks with bells on them and stuff and reindeer sweaters.

I hate this holiday and the Pope keeps sticking his foot in his mouth why doesn't he shut up? Religion no longer belongs in this century. All religions should be banned. Bring back the Wiccan Circles!

Originally Posted by DechanDawa

Wait a minute...aren't you the Grinch who put down socks for Christmas? Do you think those ladies singing carols would put down socks for Christmas? I don't think so. They would probably wear those cringy Christmas socks with bells on them and stuff and reindeer sweaters.

I hate this holiday and the Pope keeps sticking his foot in his mouth why doesn't he shut up? Religion no longer belongs in this century. All religions should be banned. Bring back the Wiccan Circles!

I think their's been some miss understanding somewhere

when I wrote about socks for christmas, I've never got socks for christmas- meaning, I've never got them for others

what I was saying is this

if I got socks, it would be okay (meaning if someone got me them), not if I got them for someone else.

I'm far from a grinch, I love christmas

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by raging vortex

I think their's been some miss understanding somewhere

when I wrote about socks for christmas, I've never got socks for christmas- meaning, I've never got them for others

what I was saying is this

if I got socks, it would be okay (meaning if someone got me them), not if I got them for someone else.

I'm far from a grinch, I love christmas

No. Noooooo. You said if someone gave you socks it would be like...you would be thinking what a crap gift...because if you wanted socks you would go ****ing buy them yourself. You basically said it was a terrible, cheap, crap, boring gift. HA! Grinched!

Anyway, as I said in that thread I used to buy my son really expensive gifts like expensive watches, engraved jewelry, cameras etc. --- and he didn't take care of this stuff -- and I got tired of shelling out all that money. He's older now so maybe he takes care of his stuff. He also has a girlfriend who buys him expensive stuff. He has told me because of his job which is very physical he goes through clothes in a few months so it's a pain in the *** for him to shop for clothes.


As well, I have very little money this Christmas.

Basically I don't like Christmas and I am coming out of the closet about it. My favorite holiday is Halloween. I hate Thanksgiving, Xmas, and Easter. They creep me out.

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by raging vortex

I think their's been some miss understanding somewhere

when I wrote about socks for christmas, I've never got socks for christmas- meaning, I've never got them for others

what I was saying is this

if I got socks, it would be okay (meaning if someone got me them), not if I got them for someone else.

I'm far from a grinch, I love christmas

Oh, well, I am actually the Grinch. I am going off PC for awhile. Poof. You have yourself an awesome holiday season and keep loving Christmas. Someone has to.

[nicoleflynn]

Originally Posted by DechanDawa

I am very sorry about what happened to you. It is just horrific.

Thank you, Dechan: It was a Baptist church I got a divorce after 31 years of abuse; they voted me out of membership. with my name up on a big screen (3 times) followed by the words, "Conduct Unbecoming a Child of God." I was called to a meeting of deacons (15 men), not allowed to have a woman with me,and asked: Are you still having sex with your ex?! That was because I let him live in my house for awhile after the divorce. They took me out of choir, and I loved singing.

[eskielover]

Originally Posted by nicoleflynn

Thank you, Dechan: It was a Baptist church I got a divorce after 31 years of abuse; they voted me out of membership. with my name up on a big screen (3 times) followed by the words, "Conduct Unbecoming a Child of God." I was called to a meeting of deacons (15 men), not allowed to have a woman with me,and asked: Are you still having sex with your ex?! That was because I let him live in my house for awhile after the divorce. They took me out of choir, and I loved singing.

Wow, I just got my divorce after a 33 year bad marriage & 11 years after I had finally moved out & the people in my church have been the greatest support & family I have ever had. It us sad how some churches totally interpret the Bible wrongly.

Yes for me Christmas is only about Christ like the name of the holiday specifies & church is a huge part of it. I used to perform with my flute & this time of year was busy with practice & performances. Now that I no longer play the flute I can now focus better on the actual meaning of Christmas without that distraction.

[DechanDawa]

For nonreligious people, I don't think they appreciate how difficult it is when one loses their church.

With all that has happened there is no way I can continue to go to my local Catholic church even though I loved going there. I loved the congregation and I loved the actual physical place of worship. It was a beautiful space. And there was beautiful music. But now I can't say I believe in the precepts and teachings of that church anymore...especially after this latest public statement by the Pope. I don't believe in the infallibility of the Pope and to be a Roman Catholic you must believe that the Pope is never wrong.

I mean I could go to the church and pretend all this stuff wasn't happening but it would be a lie.

To me - to lose my birth religion - is as traumatizing as a divorce. I have a lot of anger and I can't take that into church.

I am not a "spiritual shopper" and really don't like going to this church and that church.


It is up to me to redefine spirituality in my life, as you have, eskielover.

[seeker33]

Originally Posted by DechanDawa

For nonreligious people, I don't think they appreciate how difficult it is when one loses their church.

With all that has happened there is no way I can continue to go to my local Catholic church even though I loved going there. I loved the congregation and I loved the actual physical place of worship. It was a beautiful space. And there was beautiful music. But now I can't say I believe in the precepts and teachings of that church anymore...especially after this latest public statement by the Pope. I don't believe in the infallibility of the Pope and to be a Roman Catholic you must believe that the Pope is never wrong.

I mean I could go to the church and pretend all this stuff wasn't happening but it would be a lie.

To me - to lose my birth religion - is as traumatizing as a divorce. I have a lot of anger and I can't take that into church.

I am not a "spiritual shopper" and really don't like going to this church and that church.


It is up to me to redefine spirituality in my life, as you have, eskielover.

I'm sorry I can't help you. Just wanted to say you're not alone.I struggle with the exactly same thing! It's like falling into a black hole. Ateists can't understand, but for me, this situation is truly traumatizing. And there are very few people who can relate to this kind of intense pain


There's no one to talk to... no one understands... ateists are like "wow, great! You can enjoy life now, you're free!" Religious people will try to convrt you back which is impossible and painful. Almost no one can understand that you feel miserable, you're suffering but can't force yourself to honestly believe. But I'd love to be capable of belief!!!! However none of apologetic arguments are able to convince me... incredibly agonizing!


The special kind of loneliness with this issue makes it even more unbearable.

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by seeker33

I'm sorry I can't help you. Just wanted to say you're not alone.I struggle with the exactly same thing! It's like falling into a black hole. Ateists can't understand, but for me, this situation is truly traumatizing. And there are very few people who can relate to this kind of intense pain


There's no one to talk to... no one understands... ateists are like "wow, great! You can enjoy life now, you're free!" Religious people will try to convrt you back which is impossible and painful. Almost no one can understand that you feel miserable, you're suffering but can't force yourself to honestly believe. But I'd love to be capable of belief!!!! However none of apologetic arguments are able to convince me... incredibly agonizing!


The special kind of loneliness with this issue makes it even more unbearable.

Yes, that is what I am talking about. With regards to the Roman Catholic church I do not believe it can be fixed. I think it needs to be dismantled altogether. But that isn't going to happen.

[TishaBuv]

Remember Seinfeld? How about Festivus for the rest of us! Why can’t we all just have a sweet little exchange of some lousy gift with our loved ones to show them we care about them? Every body likes some sparkling bows and wrapping with a cup of cocoa to break up the monotony of winter!

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

Remember Seinfeld? How about Festivus for the rest of us! Why can’t we all just have a sweet little exchange of some lousy gift with our loved ones to show them we care about them? Every body likes some sparkling bows and wrapping with a cup of cocoa to break up the monotony of winter!

Well, I don't know what Festivus is as I didn't watch Seinfeld. I have never liked non-spiritual Christmas even though I celebrated it that way when married to a Jewish dude for 20 years. After the divorce I was relieved to go back to my roots. For me Christmas was a Christian spiritual event.

I find all the secular reindeer and Santas and elves and colors rather nauseating. It's a kid's holiday. My favorite holiday has always been Halloween. (Okay...also a kid's holiday but adults have appropriated it.)


I don't know. I am considering celebrating on the Wiccan calendar. I think becoming Wiccan is an appropriate response to this MeToo age. So...I guess...hmmm...I don't even know where we are...when the heck is Winter Solstice? We actually have a Wiccan church in my community!

[piggy momma]

I can understand your frustration. I grew up in the Catholic church. I loved everything about the church. I even got accepted to a Dominican convent about 15 years ago!

Then something changed in me. I haven't stepped foot in a church in about 14 years. I miss it terribly, but I'm not sure what I believe anymore. It's really hard. The church brought me so much comfort for most of my life. I've really been considering going back lately. I go to a catholic university and we have mass on campus twice a week.

I know the catholic church isn't perfect. It's so far from perfect. We've had so many problems in the church, and so many don't even make the media. Its disheartening.

But - we still long to belong. We want that sense of community, of comfort, of spirituality.

Can you find a priest you trust and try just establishing a relationship with him? It doesn't mean going to church yet - but just explore what you need and how you can get it?

My psychologist is also an Oblate priest. But, I try and keep all his roles separate - priest, prof, psychologist. Every now and then I do ask him to wear his priest hat so I can talk about God and religion, and it's comforting. I used to not like to, because he is soooo liberal, and I (was) soooo conservative, but talking to him has really helped me to see things differently. I do see me going back one day...

[FooZe]

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