Child behavior, ODD?

Not sure what topic this fits in...

I have suspected my 10 year old step son might have ODD or something similar. It's hard to tell, because I also know it's hard for step children to accept a step parent as a genuine authority figure.

The difference here is almost every single time I ask him to do something he responds with either a "why?" (Even over something as routine as brushing his teeth) or he will say he doesn't need to, or he will say he IS doing it when he clearly is not.

At first I thought he was being rebelious, but then I noticed something strange. I asked him to do something slightly out of the ordinary and he almost became frantic looking for a way to do something else besides what I told him. It was as if he knew it was a simple task and was trying to just do it even though it wasn't part of his routine but he was struggling to fight the urge to rebel.

Also at school he will come home depressed because his teacher won't let him do something he wanted to do or make him do something he doesn't want to do. As many times as I explain, that sometimes the teacher just needs you to listen, he can't seem to understand. He looks genuinely defeated as he tries to explain what seems like his world view that authority figures should be letting him do what he wants. It's as if he has the understanding that he knows better what is good for him. It could be as simple as him wanting to quietly read a book to himself when it is activity or discussion time.

I can understand kids not wanting to do homework or other tedious chores, but he will fight almost anything. Examples are turning the tv volume down, putting on your shoes, throwing a piece of trash away, handing me objects from another room, doing similar small tasks in a specific order. All these will almost inevitability be met with defiance of some type on a daily basis, no matter how calmly I ask him. Also, asking/telling in a firm tone will cause him to shut down. So that doesn't work either (especially being a step-parent). But his biological mother has the same problems with him even when she is firm and consistent with him.

I don't know what to do because I want to help him, but it is also frustrating to me because it's hard not to feel disrespected when he constantly defies my authority. Also it's hard to watch him struggle to focus in school because he can't perform simple tasks.

Any suggestions?

Quote:

Even the best-behaved children can be difficult and challenging at times. But if your child or teenager has a frequent and persistent pattern of anger, irritability, arguing, defiance or vindictiveness toward you and other authority figures, he or she may have oppositional defiant disorder (ODD). As a parent, you don't have to go it alone in trying to manage a child with ODD. Doctors, mental health professionals and child development experts can help. Behavioral treatment of ODD involves learning skills to help build positive family interactions and to manage problematic behaviors. Additional therapy, and possibly medications, may be needed to treat related mental health disorders. Products & Services Book: Mayo Clinic Guide to Raising a Healthy Child Symptoms Sometimes it's difficult to recognize the difference between a strong-willed or emotional child and one with oppositional defiant disorder. It's normal to exhibit oppositional behavior at certain stages of a child's development. Signs of ODD generally begin during preschool years. Sometimes ODD may develop later, but almost always before the early teen years. These behaviors cause significant impairment with family, social activities, school and work. The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), published by the American Psychiatric Association, lists criteria for diagnosing ODD. The DSM-5 criteria include emotional and behavioral symptoms that last at least six months. Angry and irritable mood: Often and easily loses temper Is frequently touchy and easily annoyed by others Is often angry and resentful Argumentative and defiant behavior: Often argues with adults or people in authority Often actively defies or refuses to comply with adults' requests or rules Often deliberately annoys or upsets people Often blames others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior Vindictiveness: Is often spiteful or vindictive Has shown spiteful or vindictive behavior at least twice in the past six months ODD can vary in severity: Mild. Symptoms occur only in one setting, such as only at home, school, work or with peers. Moderate. Some symptoms occur in at least two settings. Severe. Some symptoms occur in three or more settings. For some children, symptoms may first be seen only at home, but with time extend to other settings, such as school and with friends. When to see a doctor Your child isn't likely to see his or her behavior as a problem. Instead, he or she will probably complain about unreasonable demands or blame others for problems. If your child shows signs that may indicate ODD or other disruptive behavior, or you're concerned about your ability to parent a challenging child, seek help from a child psychologist or a child psychiatrist with expertise in disruptive behavior problems.

I thought I'd share the symptoms I looked up for you.

Hmmm. This may be it. The angry spitefull vindictive is very subdued. But I read somewhere else that ODD is different from another disorder in that it isn't as physical. Mostly his anger is displayed by silent motionless "death stares". But vindictiveness for sure as well. Sometimes he will comply but then he will seem unsettled until he gets to do something he wants to do, such as eat candy or play videogames.

One solution I have found for this is to make a mental list of things I need him to do and when he asks for something he wants, I tell him to do all the things on this list first. He will silently pout as he goes but when he is done and gets what he wants he is happy again. But I don't like encouraging this type of reward system because it is tedious for me as well and I think it teaches him that it's ok to be angry over simple tasks. I could be wrong.

Also, it's kind of a trick. Because if I tell him ahead of time that if he follows directions well for the day I will reward him for his good behavior, he won't do it!

I will look up "strong willed child" as well. See if I can get some pointers.

Thanks, sarahsweets!

I feel so sad when I read of or hear about a step-parent who has "marked" a stepchild as oppositional. I'm not trying to dismiss your concerns, because they might be very valid. It's just something I've read so many times on this forum and others. I can only imagine how terribly frightened it is to a child when their parents split up and that child has to adjust, like it or not. How confusing for a little person who has been in this confusing world for only 10 years.

I strongly urge you to go for family therapy before your stepson gets any older and he starts being an "oppositional" teen. Also, I'll bet therapy would be helpful for him.

Best of luck to you.

Respectfully, Beth.

This is the first I am hearing of ODD, but I suspect my brother had it. Actually, is in his 30s and still displays this kind of behavior.

BethRags, I will be honest. I hear a concerned tone in your response, and you use the word respectful, but I'm not sure why you are assuming that I have "marked" him oppositional.

Also, you assume he had a dad to be separated from.

All that aside, I understand what you are trying to do is to get me to see things from his perspective. If the majority opinion is that he is just "scared and confused" and I should take it easy on him and be more understanding and patient and gentle then so be it. I'm simply trying to understand his condition so I can better facilitate his growth.

Whether he has a biological father or not, why is his MOTHER not handling the behavior. She needs to step up and handle it and/or find out why he is resistant to requests.

Your marriage to his mother does not automatically give you "authority" over him.

Where is his mom in all this?

I don’t recommend you diagnose this child. But I recommend mom signs him up for therapy. He has no father, mom and you got married but your marriage is difficult. I know you might say kids don’t know what’s going on between you two. But they always do. In addition the way you described your wife, perhaps her son is taking after her, being difficult.

So there is a lot at play. Mom needs to start some parenting and signing him up for therapy and you might need to back off a bit. You’ve been only married a year. This kid might not see you as authority so being oppositional possibly is his natural response to you giving directions

Quote:

Originally Posted by divine1966 Where is his mom in all this? I don’t recommend you diagnose this child. But I recommend mom signs him up for therapy. He has no father, mom and you got married but your marriage is difficult. I know you might say kids don’t know what’s going on between you two. But they always do. In addition the way you described your wife, perhaps her son is taking after her, being difficult. So there is a lot at play. Mom needs to start some parenting and signing him up for therapy and you might need to back off a bit. You’ve been only married a year. This kid might not see you as authority so being oppositional possibly is his natural response to you giving directions

I agree.

Ok, I appreciate the feedback. When you put it in perspective it sounds like my problem might be impatience. Couples' therapy has been helping the wife and I, just not at the pace I want. I want results now!

Also, with her son, I see minor improvements when I point out issues to mom, she corrects them in her own time. He'll take 2 steps forward, one step back.

I guess I was out of line coming here to "diagnose" him. I am not a psychologist so I shouldn't try to find a prognosis for his behavior.

I really do care about him and I worry he will grow up spoiled and undisciplined and angry. I know that boys with no dad tend to have major anger issues later. I see small things and project them out into the future.

I also fall victim to high expectations of the "perfect family" and the "perfect marriage". When we are indeed a mixed and broken family. Which isn't necessarily bad. An old salvaged car fully restored will never be a brand new Maserati but it can still be beautiful to behold.

Thank you for your usual sage wisdom!!

Thank you

Guy, may I suggest a different approach? Instead of telling him to do something which sets the stage for him to refuse how about putting it to him as a choice? It sounds like he's had some significant changes in his short life. By offering him choices you gived him a sense of control in his life.

Let me see if I can come up with an example. Let's say he needs to brush his teeth. You can say something like "Your teeth need to be brushed. You can chose to do it now or you can chose to do it in ten minutes." You've made it clear what needs to be done, but given him some control. If he doesn't go brush his teeth right away say something like "I see you've chosen to brush your teeth in ten minutes." The whole point is to avoid turning it into a battle of wills.

I'll try that for a while and see if it makes a difference. Thanks!!

Good idea giving him choices. Giving him some power: like what do you think could be done first? Etc

Good job guy trying.

I always gave my kids a heads up about having to do something instead of telling them to do it NOW. This approach worked well for us.

When my mom married my step dad, I was 12. She made it clear to him that she was to parent me, not him. This worked great for us, too.

IDK if you step son has any issues beyond just being a kid in transition, and I wish you well with the challenge.

Thats fine except when mom is not there. So how did it work for you when you were alone with your step-dad?

Heads up don't work either here. I can give him a 20, 10, 5, 1 minute countdown and the end result is the same. But I will try making 5 minutes HIS CHOICE and see if that makes a difference.

I was a more mature 12 y/o. There was no behavior to discipline. (None my parents knew about ). He never had children of his own, so I was an alien to him. It was later, when I was 16 and older, he had to come to my rescue a couple of times with bad boyfriends. I was really grateful to have a dad those times. I really never had much of a father influence. Otherwise, he was a nice man and we got along great. They are still together over 40 years later.

It depends on how his mother has been handling that kind of thing. I had always said it to my kids since they were very little, so they were used to that’s the way it is. If you are trying to implement something new, it’s going to be a challenge.

All I have learned about step parent situations say that the birth parent should be the primary disciplinarian.

I agree with Tisha that parenting needs to be left to parents. Step parenting is tough no matter what even when dealing with adult stepkids, we are a blended family as well. It’s double hard if you try to act as a parent.

Disciplining someone else’s children just doesn’t work. Maybe if you had this kid since infancy or maybe if you were in his life for years. Maybe. But at this point I’d let mom discipline him.

Sounds like he was good for you and your mom. I'm glad. Being a step-parent is definitely an uphill battle, but worth it!

That's the general consensus. It's a shame in my opinion. I let my wife discipline my daughters no problem. They struggled with it for a little while but I talk to them often and now they love and respect her.

Maybe, if the step-parent has never had kids that would make sense.

Oh well. Such is life.

Positive reinforcement works better than negative reinforcement or reactions with children with issues like ODD, ADHD and emotionally volatile kids. It may feel as* backwards but studies have proven its more likely to yield change.

Well I don’t think it’s a shame. I think it’s the same way as grandparents and aunts and uncles don’t usually discipline (unless they become full time caregivers) and let it for parents. It doesn’t mean you shouldn’t have a good relationship with stepkids. Or that stepkids shouldn’t love their stepparents.