What is going on here?

Hey all, please dont fight about all of this. Nobody needs to leave or should not leave. I think this expression is a good thing. It needs to come out obviously. I can't say a whole lot; I am in a mess in my own darn head; but I want to say to all; hold on, its a bumpy ride. Yes, I know I should listen to myself. lol
Just take a breather; we all need it.

me

First and foremost, we have an obligation to ourselves and need to take responsibility for ourselves including our emotions. If you don't like what someone says, and IF you can disagree with some compassion and consideration, then go ahead and disagree... but don't JUDGE! If you can't disagree compassionately, then leave it alone!

Personally, I don't like to hear how bad off we all are and how wonderful YOU are, how far ahead of the game YOU are. Oh, sure! You admit that you may be wrong but I seriously doubt that you believe that.

Kudos to you if you don't feel like running away or want to kill yourself when you feel misunderstood! Not everybody here is where YOU are. Some have a much rougher road to travel than YOU do. That is something you don't seem to want to understand. You want everybody to be where you are and it simply doesn't work that way. Some have been beat down a whole lot more by life than you have. You can't expect the same level of "wanting to" that you have from everybody else, especially since you don't know what is Really in their hearts.

You speak about God and pronounce blessing on everybody. How well do you know the life of Christ... or Ghandi? May I suggest that you do some reading up?





<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

Not necessarily to Justy... just continuing the thread ok?

Well... there have been changes to the personality of this site since I've been here... only this year... but then, each new member adds their part as I did... but of late, there does tend to be more of quick responses of hurt and acting out..

As for the chat, It was me being attacked, and no, Ididn't threatened to leave the chat, I said I was sorry if I was hogging the chat (and I wasn't, as others verified.) and yes, there were at least 2 others who live on the edge and I admitted it wasn't the other person who was making me was to end it all over being attacked in chat! In fact (JON), you were also "on the edge" if I remember correctly because it was you who asked me to not talk that way because of your struggles too. And I agreed and apologized. As for breaking the rules????

The person who was "after" me was confronted, and then realized that it was their problem... and apologized. I think this was a good thing, in the end, though it was difficult during the process, for sure!

This site is no where near the meaness and rudeness and such as any other board I know. We generally have much respect for each other, and consideration abounds. Very seldom does one continue on and on and once confronted, not adapt and realize they need to change somewhat... very seldom. Which means, we are all trying.

Here we are: psychcentral! Nearly all of us are mentally un-well in some form or fashion, and we lay it out for others to see. If we wish to continue to share so openly, and feel safe about it, we need to step back and remember what it takes to keep that here... (me included) but it IS the fact that this is the best place to post when we are hurting... and it's up to each of us (IMHO, but I am only posting MY opinion remember) to do the best we can... feel comfortable to post our hurting, and try to help others in support when we can.

All in all, there isn't anything happening here that isn't customary with having a website of this nature, at least IMHO.

<font color=green> ...slip sliding away... slip sliding away....

You speak to me of compassion and consideration, but you speak to me with such disdain and disgust because you obviously know what's in my heart.
I don't think I'm so wonderful, or so far ahead of the game. Those who know me in here hear from me that I'm just "faking it 'til I make it." I'm glad not everyone is where I'm at; it's very lonesome here, and there are days (most every one) that I wonder why I'm still alive. I like many others are looking for healing and purpose. I don't think you've EVER seem me compare my road with what others have to face; (if I have, then I'm sorry) I am so grateful that I haven't had to deal with as much abuse (sexually and physically); frankly, I'm not sure that I would have been strong enough to handle it. I can't "pronounce" blessings, but I can hope for it upon people; and I don't think I have any right to "know what is Really in their hearts" and shouldn't have to "know" to hope that blessings come their way.
Yes, I do speak of God, (and what does Ghandi have to do with it) and I think I know the life of Christ very well (and no, I didn't compare what I know with what anyone else knows)--you speak to me of judging, you speak to me of compassion and consideration, but don't tell me to read up on Ghandi or Christ as you are judging me (without knowing what is in my heart) and Jesus mentioned "Judge not, lest ye be judged." My purpose is not to offend, and while I admire that you are trying to defend whom you believe that I am judging; I feel that in defending "their" rights (which I have no desire to trample on) you are trying to squash my rights to say how I feel.
Since you talk about "what's in people's hearts" let me share mine with you.
Most of the time I'm just a scared little boy. I am alone, and afraid. I fear that my life will pass without anyone knowing that I was here. I am afraid that I can't make sense of this life before it's too late. I am fearful that I will offend someone when they just needed my support, but I'm also afraid of coddling someone when they need to do things on their own.
I'm also so very afraid of not living up to my own expectations; I struggle with suicidal thoughts most every day (since I was in 1st grade); and I am mourning the loss of my marriage. (3 years ago today we got married) I am fearful of being alone for the rest of my life, and not making more progress on my own journey.
Believe it or not, though broken, my heart is good. Not perfect, just well intentioned. I'm sorry that I lack in patience concerning some people's journey. However, I feel that if you knew me, you might recognize that I am sincere, and all to willing to admit that I could be wrong. Matter of fact, I know I AM WRONG to expect so much of myself and others.
I wish I could help you to understand where I'm coming from, but perhaps it's not even important. I have no hard feelings about you; I happen to know you are quite supportive of people in the forums. Forgive me for sounding too judgemental; I wish I could better explain what's in my heart--I too am one of many here who have so much pain in their heart, but I will not give up! I won't give up on me, and I won't give up on anyone else. I think if someone WANTS to be healthy bad enough, they will be able to begin the journey in order to be able to make that happen. Sometimes, that journey has detours, sometimes we have to turn around and go the other direction, but it's not a journey if we sit down and give up...I also could be wrong in that philosophy too, but it's MY belief, and I'm entitled to it.
So, no grand pronouncement as that too is misunderstood, but I do hope that you have a wonderful afternoon.
Sincerely,
Jon

Look back at the first post that started this thread. It is about the atmosphere here and how it may have changed and people don't feel it is as safe anymore.

Later down in this same thread we have several people having a personal argument amongst themselves, each trying to justify their postion, each defending their actions and words.

Does it not occur to anyone that seeing people fight like this publically is what makes other people feel unsafe here?

When it begins to get personal... take it private or let it drop. There is not need to get in the "last word" publically, that only hurts the community. If someone bothers you, don't read them and don't respond to them.

For the record, it is another bit of irony that people complain about not being able to discuss religion or politics on this board. Religion and politics are two subjects that have proven themselves time and time again to be subjects that generate hostility when discussed amongst a group of strangers. This happens on internet forums of every nature, and in real life long before the internet existed. Remember Peanuts? "Never discuss Religion, Politics, or the Great Pumpkin."

These are just subjects that people find themselves drawn to, impossible to ignore. The "just don't read it if it upsets you" philosophy has proven itself not to work with regard to these two subjects. Now here we have a thread where people are arguing about how depressed they are and how depressed other people should be... and yet people still think we could beat the odds of every other website and much of society and talk about Religion and Politics without incurring any problems.

Don't judge other people.
Don't tell other people here how they should feel.
Don't tell other people here how much they should post.
Don't tell other people here what they should or should not post.
Remember that everyone will violate all of these guidelines at some point or another, and if that happens, don't judge them or tell them how they should feel or how they should post.

If there is a problem with someone's posts, alert the moderators. Even if you are not sure, even if it is something that just bothers you personally. Don't start a fight about it. That's what the mods are here for... we try to take a step back from the personal factors and decide if something is helpful or hurtful to the community as a whole. Remember also that we are just volunteers... we don't have a secret rulebook, we have feelings just as everyone else, and we suffer from depression and other illnesses the same as everyone else here. Sometimes we are fragile too. We try not to "moderate" when we are fragile but sometimes that makes us feel bad too.

We all deserve to express our emotions and our anger of course. But if the anger is going to start a volley of responses, consider taking it private IMMEDIATELY. No last word and no last post about how you are going to make reply in a PM. Just do it. If there is an issue, consider whether expressing your anger is to benefit you (which is always OK) and also if it will benefit or enlighten this community in any way. If not, please take it private, or get it out some other way.

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--http://www.idexter.com
<div class="foot">(Edited by dexter on 08/18/04 04:25 PM.)</div>

Please read my post tittled VERY IMPORTANT.
We all care about each other, let's keep it as healthy as possible.

Lots of love to all.

gab

While I am on the topic there is something else I want to clarify that has also been brought up in this thread.

On the topic of suicide. There is no rule against discussing suicide here. There is a rule against suicidal posts. Posts saying "goodbye I've had enough" or alluding to that.

We are allowed to discuss our thoughts on suicide and even discuss our feelings when we were in a suicidal state some time in the past. This information can be valuable and healing to others. It is not a taboo topic. Suicidal posts are, for two reasons: they are highly triggering to other members here, and more importantly, a person in this state needs to seek professional help immediately. We cannot provide that help here.

It is a very difficult call sometimes and this makes it very difficult for the moderators. But that is the rule here, and posting sarcastically does not help it and doesn't do much for the moderator's feelings either. There were some sarcastic comments in another recent thread, but I don't know if anyone noticed that that thread was neither deleted, edited, or locked. The thread discussed suicide fairly emotionally but the topic wasn't about someone who was immediately suicidal at the time, they were recovering from a past experience and were expressing it emotionally.

Two points about that, one brought up in this thread, the other in that other thread. "If you can't talk about suicide here than who are you supposed to talk to?" The answer is A PROFESSIONAL. Call a hotline, call an ER, call a doctor, call a friend. The lure of posting here is that it is impersonal and therefore it is an isolating action which is just what someone DOESN'T need if they are suicidal.

In that other thread it was mentioned that sometimes someone is on the border of being suicidal, and discussing it here may just be the thing they need to tip them back to reality and safety. The friendship and community here might be all they need to help them. That is very true. But it is just as true that the opposite could occur. Someone could come here looking for that simple comfort, looking for that safe escape, and if that doesn't work they may feel like that is "proof" that they are meant to end their lives. That would be devistating for everyone involved, including the members of this community. While it may be helpful in some circumstances, it might also be hurtful in other circumstances... that's why we have the rule in place and that is where it stands. We don't have the luxury of deciding on a case by case basis, and that is why the rule is in place... to encourage people to contact someone who is TRAINED to decide on a case by case basis what that individual needs.

The sarcasm about this rule really hurts sometimes. As I said, we are members here as well, trying to uphold the rules as best we can for the good of the community. We don't deserve to get hurt as members here either. If you aren't sure whether something violates the suicide rule, ask the mods. If you yourself are unsure as to whether something you want to post violates the rule, then it is probably an indication that you should stop wondering and call a doctor instead. If it is not an emotional post and not about immediate suicidal danger, then it is probably OK to talk about.

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--http://www.idexter.com

Gloria I didn't respond on your other thread but I liked that story very much... a good lesson and a very visual one.

It reminds me of The Celestine Prophesy and the idea of finding the beauty around us... realizing that there is always beauty around, not trying to change it, and being able to draw healthy energy from it rather than trying to suck that energy from unhealthy sources.

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--http://www.idexter.com

Dexter, thanks for your post. I too think this is a subject that needs to be handled with great care. One of my concerns pertaining to the chat room is that it's not moderated. While people have every right to say how their feeling, I am afraid that since there's no one in there with professional expertice than it's very unfair to inform the room that you are going to "end it." Also, I never know how to respond to people when they are struggling so desperately to hang on.
I would never want to push someone over the edge, but it's also unfair to expect those of us in chat (or the forums for that matter) to have the words to say to keep them in this journey.
Part of my insensitivity of my prior posts in this thread is that I'm afraid of losing people I care about; and I truly care about everyone here.
Dexter, thanks for your thoughts--to everyone else, this thread has been interesting, I think these are important discussions to be having.
Jon

The best way to help when we don't know how to help is to direct people to profesional help...
Many times, when we do not have "the answer", guiding them to the right resource is good enough.

Jon, telling people "I care. get profesional help" is the best we can do. And it is a better answer than playing "mini-psychologist" which is very risky.

gab

"Does it not occur to anyone that seeing people fight like this publically is what makes other people feel unsafe here?"

I'm not "fighting." I'm simply stating how I feel when I get judged. We have a difference of opinion but speaking for myself, I know I haven't flamed, called names, etc.

I don't know what all the hoolabuloo is when someone doesn't go along with the program. Aren't we allowed to think for ourselves? Is passing around hugs and saying "Yes, I understand that you're feeling bad, you poor thing!" all that is allowed here? Why can't the members disagree with each other? What about all the crap that is going on in the Travelers Lounge? All that anger, nasty gossip, defensiveness and acting out is okay, though, isn't it?

You know, I'm way old enough to decide for myself whether I like something or not, and if I don't, I certainly have the means and wherewithal to say so. I don't need to go running to any mod and say "Help! Someone's being meeeeaaaaannn!!"

It wasn't WiseWoman or ME that started this! BPtoo had the courage to bring up the fact that he was displeased about things going on on this site. Maybe it was a boil on the *** of this site that needed to be popped! That it did!!

Don't the pshycology books say that it's unhealthy to repress emotion? That's what we're being asked to do! Funny how ugliness in it's truest form isn't repressed! It's encouraged and protected!

I wasn't talking about <font color=red> Religion</font color=red>! I brought up Christ and Ghandi because they were the first ones to come to mind as being peaceful and compassionate! (TWO different religions, BTW!) The powers that be can try and suppress <font color=red>Religion</font color=red> as much as they want, but when it's inherent to some of the membership, it's bound to rear it's "ugly" head! Personally, I'm tired of all the double standards here! No! This is NOT, NOT, NOT to be misconstrued with "WAAAAAA! I'm hurt/angry so I'm leaving! I might even kill myself!" But if I felt that way, I would certainly say so and have every right to change my mind!




<font color=blue>"Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt" --Shakespeare</font color=blue>

thanks Gloria; I think I will remember that.
Jon

That is right Jon and that is why it is probably good to carry over the suicidal rule into chat. Unfortunately as you said there are no moderators there regularly to help. I think all you can do is push the person to get some help, call a hotline, whatever... but you are right it is very stressful for the people in chat at the time and a very unfair position to put them in.

If someone has a habit of doing that please let the moderators know. You can even let them know if someone does it once. The mods or DocJohn aren't going to do something overreactionatly (a very old word that I just made up) as we understand that people are vulnerable and they make mistakes. Sometimes they may come here just because they know they are in danger and don't know where to turn... and in that case our role can be to give them their options, hotline numbers, etc... but it is not for us to take "responsibility" for helping them. IMO the goal is to get people thinking in such a way that their instinct will be to call a hotline rather than to log on here... that can be a hard habit to break but in some situations it is the best course of action.

And in general I think it is safe to discuss our reactions and sadness when others in our lives are hurting, suicidal, or worse. That can be a healing and informative discussion as long as it doesn't become a debate about the "merits" of suicide or something like that.

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--http://www.idexter.com

Dexter,
perhaps the conversation between Sept.Morn and myself should have been taken privately, but I do believe that we are both grown adults and while the conversation may have gotten a little out of hand, I don't think either one of us were hurtful to one another.
I think these discussions are important to have, and not only in private.
BTW, I guess I haven't seen where it says that we cannot discuss religion in the forums. I think discussing one's faith is as much a right as discussing one's shoe size, as long as I don't claim that my shoe size is the only valid one.
If it is posted where we CANNOT discuss like grown adults the topic of religion, PLEASE point it out to me, not meaning to offend.
Jon

Repressing emotions is unhealthy. That doesn't mean that they have to be expressed here.

What you call having a discussion UPSETS other people here, it makes them unwilling to post. Even without namecalling or flaming. This is going back and forth between two or three people and even without namecalling, it sounds nasty, it sounds defensive, it sounds hurtful.

If it upsets me that is one thing. I can ignore it. When it upsets a large group of the community and effects the atmosphere as a whole, then it is something unhealthy for the community. Express your emotions but don't do it in a way that upsets the community. The public forums are not your only outlet.

>>I wasn't talking about Religion!

I was not talking about religion in that context. I was not referring to that comment at all. I was referring to a recent thread where there was a back and forth discussion about politics. It was civil at the time. Such things very quickly grow out of hand.

And once again... the sarcasm is not helpful. "Religion rears its ugly head" ??? I have nothing against religion. It is EXTREMELY important and valuable to people's healing here. But not for everyone. Mentions of religion in context or well wishing is not a problem. Preaching is. What you may call "discussing" many people see as preaching. Again I am not talking about comments like the one you have mentioned here... in fact I can't think of anything here recently that has been an issue in that regard. I see mentions of God and other things many times here and none of them is a problem, none have been edited or deleted or mentioned as far as I know. However even though appropriate (i.e. within the rules) talk has not been "flagged" in any way I notice more and more that whenever religion, politics, or suicide are mention there is always a disclaimer attached... a sarcastic comment about what we "are" or "are not" allowed to talk about in this community. Those comments are hurtful to the moderators and distructive to the community as they promote an atmosphere of "lets see how much we can get away with".

The rules are in place for a reason. I honestly do not think it is difficult or unhealthy to follow them. There are other ways of sorting out arguments than publically on the board.

As far as a double standard... I don't read all the forums so I can't speak for what goes on everywhere. The mods try very hard to discuss things and to try to be consistant. If you think there is a double standard then "running to the mods" is the way for us to address our standards. Trying to do the same thing you think others are being allowed to do is not a healthy solution for this board. Two wrongs do not make a right.

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--http://www.idexter.com

this reply is not to Jon personally. i'm just adding my piece to the thread. i do not in any way mean to spark more controversy here or fuel anyone's fires. i'm not "siding" with anyone, either way. i just want to say that psychcentral has always been a safe place for me. there has only been one time in the past that i didn't feel safe, and that issue was resolved right away- and i quickly regained my security.

i sat down to read this thread, which has snowballed and snowballed since i posted on it asking everyone what was wrong, and i was triggered. it isn't the specific things people are saying. it's the familiar feeling that this has.

i don't mean to be accusatory, so please nobody get offended. i just want to say that this thread is not a safe place for some of us. i am sitting on my bed crying like a child right now, and i feel like i am back in my parent's home helplessly listening to them arguing back and forth. i know that nobody is responsible for my feelings but me, but i am asking you all to please have some compassion. my experiences in childhood were hellish, and i'm doing my best to work through them. but this is hurting me today.

of course i will take responsibility for myeslf and not finish reading the thread, but there is a good chance that i'm not the only one who started reading it thinking it was safe, and finished reading it feeling very triggered and scared. it makes me feel like psychcentral is chaotic and full of contention, and i don't want to have it be that way at all

DEX: thank you for your posts. they helped me feel somewhat more safe.

please, you guys, continue the debate in your pms or not all.

-comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable-

Jon... click on FAQ on the top menu bar... third question down "What's OK/Not OK to post" ninth bulleted point down on the list.

And again let me point out that we do not enforce that as a hard and fast rule, we take it in context as best as we can.

I am not religious at all but I do have a very deep spirituality. My spirituality is very important in my recovery. Sometimes it pains me not to be able to discuss it here, but I understand the possible consequences. I discuss it privately, I discuss it in my support groups, I discuss it in emails. I am not at any loss of venues for discussing it simply because I am not allowed to discuss it here.

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--http://www.idexter.com

Lets think of this as a cocktail party. People are mingling and mixing. Having a good time, meeting others, having private discussions in small groups.

A few people start talking about a topic. Some people overhear this discussion and join in. They have very different opinions on this topic. Maybe they start to argue. Maybe the argument remains civil, maybe some yelling begins.

Other people in the room overhear the discussion... maybe it is still being discussed without yelling but strong emotions are being expressed. Some of those others go to join in the conversation. Some ignore it and go back to their own conversations. Some people are upset by the conversation and so leave the room. Maybe someone in the group takes it personally and gets very upset. Maybe others become uncomfortable and begin to leave the room. After a while everything settles down and the conversation moves on to other subjects.

Every individual circumstance described above is normal and acceptable. As people have said, they are all adults, and are free to discuss however they want, free to ignore it, free to leave the room if it upsets them.

And the same holds true here. EXCEPT that there is a unique "feature" in this place that says, because of the nature of this board... no one should ever feel like they have to leave the room. People are supposed to feel safe here. I'm not talking about individual threads or individual posts, I'm talking about subjects and attitudes that pervade the room.

Politics and Religion are two subjects that are proven to provoke this kind of reaction. They are not banned from ever passing our lips here (or fingers) but we don't want them to become subjects of debate, even healthy debate. People DO react to this, people DO complain that they are upset by such things if and when they become arguments. People are upset by this very thread, so maybe I shouldn't even be posting here anymore, but I am human too.

This place is NOT like other environments where adults mingle and meet. Many people here are very fragile and often have baggage that is easily touched upon even inadvertently. The rules are to try to keep this place a safe environment for as many people as possible.

People are always going to get bristled, to have disagreements. The only way to stop that would be to stop people from talking altogether. There is no "perfect solution". However with regard to Religion and Politics these subjects have always shown themselves to be magnets for anger and bad feelings. It is not a perfect solution to consider them "banned" topics but it is a compromise that overall works well for most people.

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--http://www.idexter.com

I did not mean to start a problem. i was asking because I was concerned but it obviously aroused many feelings in people. I was also posting to say that I am way not doing well with kiddos cancer and the whole bit. I expected a few smart remarks from people who had seen my jumble of letters. It was funny. (won't be if I can't get it fixed cheaply) I wish everyone peace and I am sorry that my post caused a very long and maybe heated thread.

No problem wisewoman {{{{{{wisewoman}}}}}}

Sometimes threads take on a life of their own

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--http://www.idexter.com

you didn't start the thread for these purposes. and i think it will be ok. things seem to be winding down.

thank you, dex, for pming me and for trying to keep this place safe. i do feel better. and i didn't mean to guilt anyone. i was just saying it was getting out of hand, and that i would like to see it stop.

as far as i saw, you didn't have anything to do with that, wisewoman. ((((hugs)))))

-comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable-
<div class="foot">(Edited by SweetCrusader on 08/18/04 06:55 PM.)</div>

I am just going to say; some here are speaking their minds and being hurtful but asking others not to do that to them? Whats with that?
Anyway; sky you misunderstood me with the chat; I did not say that u were taking over in there at all. It was the comments made by more than one; its all an opinion because I have personally heard two sides to the story from different people whom were there that night.
Anyway I am not interested in arguing; this is not helping anyone so I am not posting with this anymore. We all have enough to deal with let alone getting ****** for expressing ourselves. With these personal attacks; NOBODY HAS A RIGHT TO DO THIS AND THIS SHOULD BE STOPPED. If someone has something to say to me; no problem, but like I said before; we need to be tactful about it. Like any of us need more negativity in our lives. Oh, and with; well I have been through more than you;;;;;;; whats that all about. No ones pain is greater than others and I think that was a selfish comment. We all know our own pain; our own, not others. WE can only try to understand. Anyway; this is not meant to piss anyone off. So take it as needed. We all see things differently and none of this changes how i feel about all of u. I have expressed it many times before.

justy

Oh my goodness Justy... you didn't say a thing like that, did you? No, the person who was "getting after" me was, as it turned out, being triggered by the avatar I use... and one of their comments was to "let me voice my opinions" when I was already active in the chat.. So, no, it wasn't you.
<font color=blue>
And, if it hadn't been so busy in there that night, most would have been able to read that that member and I came to an understanding... that it was a trigger and that member was taking it out on me.
<font color=green>
These types of things are to be expected, but like Dex said (I think) we have a lot of fragile members. .. and the rest of us are pretty sensitive too! LOL So we tend to hear things in our own context... and we all know that when we have 20 witnesses to an accident, we have at least 18 different stories as to what happened!
<font color=purple>
While I agree that these types of threads can be disturbing, and wish we had "caught" it earlier and at least used the trigger icon... I think it does the site good to have these releases once in a while. It's tough to engage them though, I know.<font color=blue>

That's MY opinion, folks, only. But we all tend to "stuff" feelings (a word I've heard a lot on here lately) and feelings and attitudes and all that "stuffed" stuff comes out... think this happens every so often, and isn't anyone's "fault."
<font color=purple>
Finding fault, or needing to blame someone is indicative of many of our basic problems: many ppl were raised with that idea in the family... things never just happen, but someone has to be at fault... and, like other things in life, it comes into the site...<font color=green>

A good, healthy discussion of opinions helps all of us... but, LOL, it's tough to do when so few of us are healthy!



<font color=green> ...slip sliding away... slip sliding away....
<div class="foot">(Edited by SkyBdark on 08/18/04 09:34 PM.)</div>

It has been very emotionally draining reading this post after a bad day. True, it was my choice.....but I hadn't anticipated this again.

I'm glad to see it is calming down.

::::::::::hides under blanket::::::::::

Courage is fear that has said its prayers.
Dorothy Bernard

((((((((((((((wisewoman))))))))))))))

Hello, I have read some of your posts and you do indeed sound wise. After reading the side post...I wanted to give you a big cyper hug if it is ok with you, if you do not like hugs just let me know and I will remeber that.

I just read 4 pages of reply's and did not see you in there chiming in so in my opinion you did not start any of that goings on.

Most of all I am very sorry that you are going through your kiddos cancer, I would like to say that your loved ones cancer outweighs all that was said inbetween your first post and last. I can not even begin to imagine how difficult it is to care for someone you love and uncertainty that comes along with Cancer. My heart goes out to you.

When you speak of 'kiddo' I would think you are refering to a child? I am glad I satayed through the 4 pages of all to let you know you will be in my thoughts as you cope with your 'kiddo's' cancer and the stages of it and treatment.

Just to let you know I do wish the outcome to be the best. I know that my words can not change the pain you are going through, only that you and family are in my thoughts. Honestly I wish there were someting I could say to change the circustanses you are going through 'kiddos cancer' however you know there is not. Only that I really do have faith for you to get through this..please what ever you do never give up hope. And as far as you causing a long thread, I read most of it and not much to do with your feelings as the origional poster of this threads.

Though I did not post to get into all of that. I replyed to you because I didn't want you to think through all the replys that your feelings were not being considered. I feel that the arguments to the point of reading yours reply on page 4, is much more important than the discussion that carried on. I wish you and your family the very best and my heart goes out to you--Chris

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~KRIS~

If you think you have totally gave up, you haven't, because you are here!