Venting---in a dark place...may trigger

You deserve the MRI
(i had one for something else)

Its worth it

(((WI))) It could be sacro-iliac issues...and if it's the ilia going out then traction will not make it better and might make it worse. (The ilia are "horizontal" bones, not vertical.)

Yes yes yes, stretch the hamstrings!!!! Fight inflammation any way you can... the RA foundation has a diet that might help too. (I use Toradol for inflammation when the pain hits 10, break through meds) I also have therapeutic ultrasound which nearly immediately reduces the inflammation! (PT does this for me.)

ICE or HEAT whichever makes you feel good and lasts... but only 15 minutes at a time, then 15 minutes without, then you can ice or heat for the next 15 minutes etc. Otherwise the area becomes over sensitized and soon 15 minutes doesn't help, then 30 doesn't etc.

If you do go for an MRI, make sure it's a closed one (or a brand new one with high strength... open MRIs are often not strong enough to show everything. ) Have you tried a CAT scan?



As for all that stuff that "needs" to be done? I found out that many things I wanted to do really didn't need to be done, or could wait. Health situations, yes, need to be addressed (keeping things clean enough to be healthy) weeding, well? Letters from the HOA just inform me of things I already know. I do my best. That's all you can do too. Don't beat yourself up with the small stuff now... and hopefully you'll reevaluate and find lots more small stuff.

"will it really matter anyway" ... yes

"i'll be told the same thing
its never anything anyway"

Please don't assume you'll be told the same thing.( drs are sometimes wrong and they certainly arent gods... no offense here to anyone)

(deleted an example)

so they may not tell you the same thing, you need and deserve to know what is really going on!

Keep on pushing until you find a dr who actually listens

I know how hard that is when feeling scared, hurt and invalidated



"eventually I'll get there"

I agree with notz, good thinking

White_iris,

I had a giggle with this......oh this is so me too......I have learned to write the best thank you notes for things I don't even know what they are......& I write thank you notes for everything......sometimes I even felt I had to write thank you notes for thank you notes.....but the light came on...No, not necessary.

I am so feeling for your pain......do not give up of getting a solution....even if it is surgery.....you will be better off with if they can do surgery than you are now. I had migraines that hit when I was around 42....non stop migraines....only thing that would touch them was an ER shot of demoral 200mg......every 3-4 days. I ended up going to a neurologist that tried all the migraine stuff that didn't work......& pain medications were too light to touch the pain....most of the time it felt like a 20 on the scale of 1-10.....then they decided to do an MRI to see what was going on...the MRI took in my neck & they found some severe damage.....from a previous whiplash I had never been in any accident so where a whiplash could have come from......only possibility was in college horsemanship class when I was thrown over the head of my horse & landed on the ground....sort of head/neck first. The only solution was neck fusion.....they thought that might be the cause of my migraines. I was sent to a neurosuregon & had the neck fusion done....they said I didn't have any choice or I could have worse problems....so maybe it was a good thing I had the migraines or they never would have found the problem. It didn't solve my migraines & I am still of a heavy dose of pain medication for that. I use the fentynal duragesic patches.....you keep them on 72 hours & then change them....don't have to take pills & the medication is continuous flow round the clock......best thing they ever got for me....they started me on a lower dose in the hospital after my neck fusion..the pain specialist they called in for my surgey.

It was interesting that the T I was going to for years with my depression & anxiety, ended up having back surgery right at the time I was dealing with the PTSD from the situation with the home care person for my Mother while he was dying of cancer......bad timing on my part but he was having back problems for a long time & he had a wonderful surgeon do the surgery......he was moving slow for awhile, but he is back up.....not in pain, & able to walk the american eskimo puppy I gave him out of my last litter & do some yardwork & really back to living again....me, I wasn't so lucky with the pain relief from the neck fusion.....the migraines are still there, but the patches keep the pain away 100%....can't ask for more than that.

Since my move here to KY & having to find another pain specialist that was willing to prescribe this large amount of narcotics was difficult, but it had been proven to work for 5 years before that, so he was less stressed about prescribing. I never even know I had neck fusion except once in awhile when my neck gets stiff (humidity in KY compared to Calif seems to effect my stiffness).

You definitely need to go to a neurologist, get the MRI, someone not associated with where you are going now (so there will be no conflict of interest). There are so many possibilities available that it is important to know ALL your options.....so you can choose....now have someone choose for you.

When I had my knee problem....Racquettball injury.....I went to an orthopedic surgeon & at the time he said he would go in arthroscopically & if he didn't find anything, he would close it up & I would just have to live with it. I did't like that option, so I found a sports specialist orthopedic surgeon. He took the bottom of my leg & the upper part & torked it.....OUCH....but it showed the instability that was there...immediately knew it was the Anterior Cruciate Ligament & he scheduled surgery.....not arthroscopic at that time (just before they started to fix it that way...just my luck)......the point being.....when you get a specialist that knows what they are doing....they know exactly what they need to do to fix the problem....do a wonderful job, & we are back being able to function again. The other point.....don't take one Dr's opinion especially if it isn't a positive approach for you......

It is so worth it getting injuries fixed.......so please go for it....don't sit back & take the do nothing Dr's advice. PT can only strengthen the muscles surrounding the problem.....It won't fix it......strengthening is important before surgery.....as surgery is usually more successful with strong muscles surrounding the area.....but it isn't the final answer.

Hope it works out or you.....hope you work it out.....sometimes the only thing that works is if we are our own advocate & are insistant about it...not allowing them to make us feel like we are making anything up.....pain is not made up....when there is pain, there is a reason that needs to be found & taken care of.....if all has been done & the pain is still there, then good pain management with a pain specialist is the only other option & don't settle for anything less....you are a valuable person & your quality of life is valuable....don't let anyone take it away from you.

gentle so it doesn't hurt,
Debbie

{{{ white_iris }}}

http://forums.psychcentral.com/showthread.php?t=109672

For those that understand this medical jargon:
report says "there is presence of degenerative changes, normal lordotic curve. Retrolisthesis of L5 on S1 and markded narrowing of the interspace with vacuum phenomenon and hypertrophic spurring. no acute fracture seen."

Sky--Dr prescribed Toradol--took one last night and this AM--Rx 2x day and Darvon w/acedaminophan up to 3x day as needed.

In a bit of a better place today. Trying to find the bits of gold nuggets in the muddy river.....(just saw "paint your Wagon" one of my favorite musicals)
Got an application for "Strong Women" class---muscle strengthening for women over 40 and looking into a yoga based stretching class for us "older" women. Some positive steps and trying to move out of this depression.

I'm going to give it a couple weeks on the Toradol and Darvon with the chiropractor and the back exercises. If there is not improvement, chiropractor said he will order MRI.

Working on a change in perspective.....not easy, but a good exercise right???

(((((( white iris ))))))

doing better emotionally. going the conservative route of anti-inflamatory meds (correction on what I am taking---Lodine), chiro, abdominal exercises, etc. signed up for a class called "strong women" which is muscle building and toning and strength training. may also sign up for a stretching class.......
ah, the ideas in my head are good ones....now to get the rest of me to get off my butt and make it all happen-----grrr.

(((((White_Iris))))),

I am sure you have looked up the technical jargon by now.....but thought just in case. Most of the treatments are non-surgical at least at first....there are many ways of relieving the pain rather than surgery....only as last resort.....Internet has much information on your condition even down to the specifics of the L5-S1. I was interested because my psychologist had back surgery after a long time of PT & wanted to know more about it......this gave me a chance to research as it is always best if surgery isn't necessary.

degenerative changes:Gradual deterioration of specific tissues, cells, or organs with corresponding impairment or loss of function, caused by injury, disease, or aging.

normal lordotic curve:Lordosis is an anatomical condition which exists in the lumbar or cervical spines of affected patients. Normal human spines demonstrate typical lordotic curvature. These curves are necessary to help distribute weight and shock throughout the spinal column. In hyper-lordotic patients, these curves are mildly or greatly exaggerated. Normally, this condition is not problematic and causes no pain or symptoms. However, severe lordotic curvatures can cause health concerns and should be monitored by a qualified physician. In contrast, loss of lordotic curve can also be an issue, since the spine is subjected to abnormal stress.

Retrolisthesis of L5 on S1:Retrolisthesis is the posterior displacement on one verterbra on the one below it [As opposed to anterolisthesis]. This can be from degenerative changes or from trauma. This site provided some information on different possible treatments:
http://www.healthcentral.com/chronic...on/92877/36797

This is a case history of treatment by a chiropractor:
http://www.idealspine.com/pages/AJCC...00/Norwood.htm

markded narrowing of the interspace with vacuum phenomenon:
Narrowing of the interspace means that the gap is no longer there where the cushioning is supposed to be.....being compacted together

vacuum phenomenon is a gap condition that has fluid or gas between the disc. What does this mean?? Loss of the cushioning effect of the disc.

hypertrophic spurring: herniated disc
This internet site talks about this with the L5-S1 & treatments:
http://www.spine-health.com/conditio...herniated-disc

Thank you so much Eskielover---
seems like my chiropractor is taking this alot more seriously than my medical dr.
i'm going with my chiro doing the back exercises, traction and adjustments. taking anti-inflamatory meds and have pain meds as needed....
chiro said that if it doesn't get better in the next couple weeks he will order the MRI

thanks again for the info.

((((((((((White))))))))))))
I know you'll make it through this!!!!!!!!!=)

White_Iris,

I am sorry you hurt so bad, it is so draining to be in constant pain and the intense feelings tend to make pain worse. (I know by experience)

It is GOOD that you are complaining/venting. It is NOT self-pity to call the misery just what it is. It will not make you like your dad and sis. You are not even like them, so try to stop believing that venting to your friends makes you negative like they are.

I've had lots of pain issues, some organic and some psychosomatic - but they ALL hurt like h***!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess I am urging you to be human. You would let me complain and you would be kind to me - SO...do some of that for yourself. It is healthy to vent out the heat and steam of all these difficult feelings. I think if you got stuck in self-pity we would find a way to tell you so gently. Excuse my bluntness, but STOP BEING MEAN TO YOURSELF!!!!! (the above statement meant with all gentleness and kindness, etc....)

Sometimes I am mean to myself because I am angry and there is no one left to yell at. Anger is part of grief and a part of having pain that gets in the way of things that matter to you. So, you have good reasons to be angry.

I apologise if this is too blunt, but the people here who know you value you highly. I just want you to take the concern we have and let it do any good for you it can. I KNOW you would do the same for me/us.

Sending you butterfly hugs, many of them (they land lightly and never squeeze too hard)!!!!!!!!!!!!

Leslie/Pixies

White Iris,

I hear you and would prefer that you do not go into the closet!!........I have a crypt that I go in to days on end....

Chronic physical illness is one of the nastiest things I have ever had to deal with(I thought BPD was bad!! and it was......but this is bad in a different way.)

I do not have back problems in the context that you are speaking of.......I have a malfunctioning endocrine system......there is a war going on inside and professionals have little clue about healing it.......I am trying to get up the courage to try yet another medication that may or may not work.

Doctors, biopsies, specialists, hospital, mammograms, therapists, medication, housebound, disability pension.......yep, BIG trauma.......not to mention the hypervigilance has ramped up in the most spectaular way.

Someone earlier mentioned grief......they have hit the nail on the head.....I was grieving and enraged so badly 2 years ago that I wanted to die. But you have much insight, and I guess so do I........for I will NOT go quietly into the night......I will fight this and if it kills me at least I died fighting!!

You sound like a brave, motivated and caring person......with good support from your husband. I truly believe that you will turn the tide.....you will not become what you do not wish to become......

Take care White Iris......although I do not KNOW how you feel I can sure empathise.......be loving with your precious, precious self.....