I've known I've had PTSD for a long time but never looked at it as a separate thing. I've known that my dysfunctional, tramatic childhood and abandonment by my boyfriend as a young adult caused my BPD...there's no way around that fact, but the T now says that it's severe enough that I need to look at it in it's own light. That it may have caused or contributed to other things that but it is also an issue in itself..... Lucky me...

[Open Eyes]

(((Maranara))),

I asked my T about BPD once, because I got to know a member that was struggling with it. My T told me that it often comes from neglect or abuse in early childhood and often is accompanied by PTSD. I think that it is not such a bad thing for you to concentrate on the PTSD in a separate way tbh. What that can help you do is connect the dots and see how the PTSD can be a contributor to the BPD issues as well. I actually think it is smart that your T is thinking about that too. His goal is to help you heal and understand yourself better so you can get past the "feeling that something is just going to fail" in your relationships. And it will also show you how you have compensated unknowingly because of your history.

Give it a chance, it's all about healing and learning about yourself so you can improve and gain on the areas where you struggle.

((((Hugs))))
Open Eyes

Ever since late last night and in to most of today, I have had the many years of abuse, neglect, perceived wrongs, and pain play over and over in my head. I can't stop it and it's exacerbating everything else. The feelings of guilt, inadequacy, and being unworthy of asking or receiving help are powerful and making me withdraw from everything. Is this playing and replaying the PTSD in action? Have I just never recognized it before?

[Mogie]

Playing and replaying is common with PTSD, and at times even feeling like something was happening all over. What you are feeling is perfectly normal for PTSD. For me part of replaying things was to search for meaning...why...why did this happen...what caused it...what could I have done...why did they do that to me. One thing I've learned is that some times the answers will never be found, but that the present can be lived, and the future made better.

I did have some tramatic things happen in the last year or so that made me feel like everything was happening over again. Like I was 8 years old again and not in control. It's sad to still be haunted by things that happened 20, 30 years ago. I think I buried a lot of the pain for a long time and then things, painful things happened to bring it all back to the surface.

((((Mara)))) I can completely relate. I have been stuck in that loop the past few days. I want to get outside of my head, because remembering everything hurts so much, but. I also am withdrawing because I am stuck and being alone feels like the safest place to be right now. I desperately want to get unstuck, though, and start moving forward again...I am counting the days until I have the chance to meet with my new T. I am feeling hopeful that having someone to talk to irl, as well, will get me going again.

I also have a lot of anger toward my "family" right now, because I feel as though had they been there for me in the first place, I would have had learned better coping skills and would have maybe even had the opportunity to deal with all the past traumas properly so it would not become so severe as ptsd.

I think that is why I am still so frustrated and angry about my pdoc's secret, surprise dx that I discovered in my paperwork. My past, my life, the last 30 years just feel like a huge waste. A lesson in spinning my wheels and banging my head against the wall.

The positive news is that with my great former T, dbt and the love, support, wisdom and guidance from my friends here on PC, I have been able to make great steps forward. It takes time to unravel everything but it is well worth it.

I am not sure this is helping...I mostly want you to know I understand and you are not alone

Originally Posted by Maranara

Ever since late last night and in to most of today, I have had the many years of abuse, neglect, perceived wrongs, and pain play over and over in my head. I can't stop it and it's exacerbating everything else. The feelings of guilt, inadequacy, and being unworthy of asking or receiving help are powerful and making me withdraw from everything. Is this playing and replaying the PTSD in action? Have I just never recognized it before?

My mom caused most of my PTSD in addition to a few events that happened as a young adult. This could very well go under the "Survivors of Abuse" forum as well. I was constantly emotionally abused by her my whole life. From being physically beaten when I was 8, to being written a letter, sometimes more than one every day telling me how I was such a horrible person while in college, to being called a mistake, to her directly telling a family friend when I was 11 or 12 that she's finally be happy when I moved out, to her completely ignoring me, pretending I didn't exist for as much as a week at a time when I got her angry, to her finally "disowning" me when my dad died 3 years ago. A never ending constant cycle that spread to every other facet of my life. Sorry for the gigantic run-on sentence but that's how it feels....one running in to another for my entire life.

[Open Eyes]

((Maranara)) and ((Rose too)),

I am soooo sorry that you had a mother that was so "self absorbed" and so completely "ignorant" in how to raise a child, knowing the "real needs of a child".

When we are just children growing up, we believe the things our parents tell us and show us. And when we don't get love, recognition, and praise we really struggle and develope "low self esteem" problems and even trust problems because of that.

And Rose is right, because of that "lack" we can genuinely struggle with any big life challenges that come our way because we don't have the foundation of "self assurance". A part of us never really developed the skill of "falling, hurting, having mother come tell us we are going to be ok, and offering love and reassurance".

When we struggle through PTSD and have a personal history "void" of something we really needed to "thrive", the "reveal" of finally seeing how it really shaped us is very difficult to learn. And that is because most people just think they are "born who they are" and that how they address challenges is simply about "who they are".

While we all do have genetics that give us certain talents and some charectoristics?
We are all born with pretty much a "clean slate" for a subconscious mind. So much of who we become depends on the kind of nurturing we get. We do imprint many of the personality traits that our mothers, siblings, father's, and extended family present to us. We slowly begin to develope a sense of values based on the values we learn from those around us.

It isn't so important what the "class" of people our parents are that gives us the healthiest sense of self either. A child can grow up with little in terms of where they live and what their mother/parents have and still be very well adjusted and "driven".

If a child is told that "things" are very important and they need to be happy because they have "things" like a big house, lots of toys and privilages, they simply "believe it". But if all those "things" are offered and that child doesn't get the appropriate "nurturing"? What they develope in their subconscious mind is "things" are what they need "most" to be balanced and happy. However, these children often struggle when it comes to "interacting" with others and being able to "feel self assured" as well as understand how to be "emotionally appreciated". Human beings are clearly not designed to grow up without "nurturing". Any balance in "emotional" well being can be verbalized too, "Dad was always kind and caring, Grandma really loved me and we had special times, or even my older sister was always so good to me". Even a caring teacher along the way can "save and fill that much needed nurturing".

We simply do not realize how our "sense of self worth" is formed. All children make efforts to seek approval and love. They try to be "seen and heard" in many different ways and can go to great lengths in even trying to "achieve" in order to gain recognition. However, if their efforts and met with "go away don't bother me" or "not now, I need to get my hair done" or "if you got a 90, why didn't you get 100" etc. That child will begin to develope a signal in their subconscious of, "if I try, if I achieve, I will only be hurt".

Maranara, many people who struggle with BPD, do so because of "neglect" and "lack of proper nurturing". They are often high achievers, and want to please, want to be loved, but they carry a deep pain where they feel that they will be hurt and somehow discarded. Often when they have relationships they try very hard to be nice and giving, until a point where they grow angry and even want to "provoke" the moment of rejection, just to break free of the feeling of "it will come, they will be hurt". They often will display "affection" the "kind of affection they themselves so desperately needed" however, when they get affection back, they simply do not know how to "accept it as a truth or real" so they begin to instead get "angry" and "desire to detach". This is the only way they feel they can "control" the pain. The person who has BPD, wants to be the one that "controls the pain" and they truely do not understand why they are like that either. And yes, some people who struggle with this disorder can become dangerous depending on the amount of damage they suffered in their past.

PTSD does present cycles of confusion that bring forward the "pain and tramas" from the subconscious mind. People with "complex" PTSD are those that have troubled childhood experiences where there was a "lack of a nurturing presence" to provide a calm, a solution, a sense of being loved, and permission to thive with that sense of "I am loved and important as a human being".

When we work with a therapist, we slowly talk about our childhoods and the people in our environment that helped to "shape and design our subconscious mind". Our brains are much like a computer that depends on the people that surround us for it's "programing" and "problem solving'. However, unlike a computer, the human brain's programing also includes "emotional health" as well. From the time we are born, we start to learn how to understand and use our "emotions". We slowly learn what emotions go with what experiences and all the information we take in is also attached to "emotions" that stay with us all our lives to remind us of "warnings, needs, feeling reward, danger, success and appreciation, forming boundaries and utilizing the defense of anger". Computers do not have "emotions", but for human beings, emotions are very important and these emotions help human beings find balance, drives, sense of self importance and value, and how to interact with other human beings in a way that strenghtens our ablity to maintain, "our own self esteem".

The process of finally "healing" is first "experiencing the pain" and whatever is in our personal history that "hurt us" and "where we lacked the proper emotional nurturing".
This stage of PTSD is very challenging because anyone who struggles with PTSD truely doesn't understand "why" they are suddenly unable to find emotional balance and contol. And the brain is actually injured and overwhelmed so anything that ever hurt us in our past that created an emotional imbalance makes us "very sensitive". And this period becomes so challenging and confusing that everyone that presents with it begins to isolate because they are so sensitive they struggle with any human interactions. And many begin to present with intrusive images that they experienced in their past where they felt very threatened and extremely emotionally confused. And when this happens the person is often completely taken over and flooded with fear and troubled emotions that they often get very confused and frightened.

The first part of PTSD is often very painful and confusing as well as exhausting. And the person becomes "desparate' and "very vulnerable" and "frightened" but also "angry". The anger can be strong because when we feel vulnerable, we do utilize anger for "self protection". However, we can also turn that anger inward as well because we suddenly become so overwhelmed that we begin to feel so completely unable to be understood by anyone at all. This is when it is very important to have the right kind of help, to gain access to professionals that know how to bring a sense of stablility and much needed sense of "safety". Then the person struggling can slowly learn "why" they are struggling and more importantly, that "they can be helped".

It is very "important" that a "therapist" understand PTSD and can first and foremost get the patient to feel safe and that there will finally be "the rescuer" that they are so desperately in need of. The therapist must be able to understand PTSD so they will "not" mistake the anger and agression that accompanies PTSD as another disorder. It is also important that a therapist understand that a person with PTSD will suffer "cycles" where they will be charged with energy and then fall into dispair.
A therapist who doesn't understand this "may" misdiagnose a patient with bipolar, which can lead to the patient getting confused.

One of the big problems that I have noticed about PTSD victims and have experienced myself is that "they are often misunderstood" and unless family members that they are exposed to are "instructed on what PTSD means and how to support the sufferer" the PTSD sufferer can be "further damaged or challenged unfairly".

Once someone that struggles with PTSD is finally told what it means and the symptoms they begin to experience a tremendous sense of relief because "someone knows what is wrong with them and promises it can be relieved". And if they are treated properly, they learn how to establish a "safe place" where they can experience a safe environment where they do not have any stimulation and can slowly quiet down and "rest". So the first phase of PTSD recovery is "first" understanding what it means and how to slowly gain "some" control over it.

The second phase of healing is finally gaining enough control and understanding of the tramas in our past that trigger an emotional warning which is accompanied by anxiety and confusion. And as the PTSD sufferer slowly addresses the trama or tramas they can finally "mourn" whatever was lost to them due to the tramas or in the case of "complex PTSD" whatever hurt or was not provided in "childhood".

This is when each person finally examines their subconscious mind, and how they adapted around "a lack of proper nurturing" and "disfunction" that was "never their fault" and hurt them more than they realized. This journey is not just about seeing others as "bad or purposely mean because the sufferer was unworthy", but that those who "neglected were themselves damaged".

As this process unfolds the complex PTSD sufferer begins to examine how these "disfunctional" people impacted how they think and utilize their emotions in ways they did not realize. And in this process the sufferer will finally mourn whatever the child in them did not receive in their nurturing that "could have" given them a much better sense of self and emotional balance. As this process takes place the sufferer will slowly "gain a sense of self" that they never had before as well. In this process the sufferer will be slowly gaining the "knowledge and understanding" that they never had before. This will slowly help the sufferer learn how to see others in a different light as well as develope new ways to form boundaries and restructure the emotions they struggled with before, into slowly being "reorganized" in "healthier ways". This stage is also "lengthy" and each person will be different depending on what they lacked in their personal history. However this process provides an increasing sense of personal gain and understanding, it brings on an increasing sense of "personal relief".

The final stage of "healing" is finally taking all that is learned and developing "empowerment" skills where the sufferer slowly "remaps" their mind with "better reasoning skills" so they can finally have more balance in themselves and actually learn to embrace their life and feel empowered to do so. And often these people have a sense of awareness and knowledge that many others do not have. This also takes time to adjust to as well.

So, it is important to understand Maranara, that while your mother "failed" you and you now do suffer from PTSD. You have to learn all the areas you need to finally understand how that affected the way you developed and how you can slowly work on "correcting it". You can learn to slowly "change" your understanding of yourself and how to finally get past that feeling that "you will only get hurt if you try to be loved".

Open Eyes

[Open Eyes]

What really helps for those who struggle with PTSD, is to allow "self" to be "willing to learn". The best thing my therapist helped me to do was to "observe" self when I do struggle. People with PTSD experience a lot of different triggers in which they have an "uncomfortable" reaction. The terms "fight or flight" are very important to remember and think about when you react to a "trigger". It is important that when you "react' in a "heightened" sense, often the "reaction" comes first and can be "strong" too. Often these "reactions" present without "consciously commanding" as well. When that happens it is important to understand that sometimes the only way you "can" finally observe is "after" this happens.

I have noticed several people that struggle with PTSD talk about triggers in a sense that they "are destined to always react in a profound way". It is important to understand that we do "not" have to "reinforce" these upsetting "triggers". By "observing" and slowly addressing the "reason behind these triggers in a more conscious way" we can actually learn how to "lesson the power of these triggers" instead of "reinforcing them". This process does take time, and "patience" is very important. Triggers almost always present a sense of "loss or embarassment" or even a strong sense of "failure" as well. When a trigger presents "anger" and the PTSD sufferer expresses that "anger" which is the "fight" response, afterwards they often feel a sense of "failure" that they just reacted so strongly. And if that happens, they can then feel the "flight" response and have a really strong desire to "run and hide" somehow, even from themselves. That "is" part of PTSD, and by the sufferer understanding that and allowing themselves to "observe" and "have patience" and be "willing to learn" instead of "feeding into a sense of failure", real "growth can actually take place".

I talk about PTSD alot, I know how lonely it can be too. I cannot stress enough how important it is to "self love, self care, self nurture, and build patience with self" NO MATTER WHAT. The "healing" process of PTSD is challenging and full of ups and downs for a long time. It takes time to "remap the brain" and gain longer periods of balance. No human being is ever perfect, we all have our faults and personal challenges. And the truth is, we grow and learn all of our lives, there really is never a point where we stand in a sense of "I am all grown up now and settled", because we go through different stages of life that bring on new challenges. So, the decision to "allow self to grow and learn and adjust" is important and ok and healthy and "normal".

Open Eyes

I fooled myself into believing I was okay for a long time. Mental health issues of any kind were severely looked down upon in my family. I grew up during the time when psychiatrists and therapists still had a bad rap, partially due to their own incompetence in some cases. My dad knew my mom had problems but his basic reply was "lady you're crazy, you need to see a shrink". I discovered the BPD almost a year ago, but due to circumstances was not able to get diagnosed right away. The PTSD does make sense. When it comes to my hardest times of dealing with the problems related to the BPD, I have always thought backwards...I've always linked the way I'm acting now to something that happened in the past. PTSD and BPD natually go together. The biggest problem most BPDs have is not being able to let go of the past and live in the present...but I didn't realize how much PTSD played in to that, until now.

I have a lot to learn, and obviously recovering has not yet begun. Due to finances and such, it will be a while before I can see a therapist on a regular basis, and I have very little support at home. My husband basically believes I'm making a lot out of nothing. But at least I'm finally understanding things a lot better and can start being proactive at home. I can recognize things and link things together that I've not been able to do in the past. It may be a paltry start, but it's something for someone who basically didn't have a clue for a long time. If you know of any literature I can read or sites I can go to for self-help until I'm able to get one-on-one help, please pass on the info. I've looked in to on-line therapists but I need the one-on-one. That's the reason this site gets to me now and then: no one-on-one contact, and I desperately need the human interaction.

Thank you very, very much for the insight. It's a small start in the right direction.

[Open Eyes]

A book that my T told me to get is "Trama and Recovery" by Judith Herman. It discusses the three stages of "healing" that you will be going through.

As far as your husband is concerned, he is not going to understand it Maranara, so don't blame him. Your finally understanding yourself will "add to your family" as you progress, especially seeing ways you can help your own children better if you have children.

Unfortunately most men simply don't understand how their wifes have some "very intricate emotional needs". It isn't their fault really because men are simply not as emotionally complicated as women are.

Lots of self care and "patience" from now on Maranara. You "can" learn to overcome.

Also, Maranara, you are right, there has been alot of "ignorance" in the field of psychiatry and psychology in the past, lots of "misdiagnosing" too. My therapist told me that he doen't think that BPD should be named the way it is in the manual. He feels that it is more "complex PTSD" and has learned that the patients he has treated that were labeled BPD, had a history of childhood abuse or neglect and many do have PTSD symptoms and are misunderstood. He has found that what is deemed BPD, is actually very treatable and is often just given a bad impression of these patients.

I have not been diagnosed with this myself, but in my own therapy, and getting to know a few members that have this diagnosis, I can see how childhood trama or "neglect" can present having difficulties in "trust".

At least we are consistantly making gains in our understanding of how people can form some of these "disorders" and develope ways to treat them, verses just handing out "pills" and diagnoses of disorders.

((((Hugs)))