[Rubylizard]

is anyone else out there on zyprexa? my pdoc basically forced it on me and i finally gave in. i can't afford it so he's even going to give me samples, but basically, i'm taking 1/16th of a 10mg tablet now and i can barely sit up to type this.. i am so tired and my legs and arms are so weak. they feel like jello.
i was on klonopin ( 1/4 mg a day) and was FINE. WHY does he want to mess with something that is working. i hate this.
i'm basically confined to my house now since walking feels like trudging though snow and mud at the same time. i want him to call me back!
i guess this is more of a rant than anything.... but any one else's experiences with this crap might make me feel better.

[(JD)]

Welcome Ruby... we ran a thread on this 5/31/04 you can use the search for Zyprexa and see where it's mentioned on this site. My knowledge is that it is class actioned, because it cause serious side effects... double check with your pharmacist, since you doctor doesn't seem to want to listen.

[Rubylizard]

yeah, i know it is class actioned, because of the risk of developing diabetes while on it. my shrink says that's because of the weight gain associated with it. i don't want to take this drug anyway, so hopefully these side effects at such a low dose will convince the doctor about it.

[lenjan]

I take 2.5 mg Zyprexa on an as-needed basis for anxiety, and I've never had a problem with it -- in fact, I like it a lot.

Candy

[Genevieve]

Ruby, your doctor is wrong, or isn't keeping up with the journals. Zyprexa -- which really is a very valuable drug for those who need it, so don't think it's all bad -- really does seem to trigger Metabolic Syndrome X in some people, which is the precursor to Type II diabetes. It's not causing diabetes through the weight gain, although it can also cause enough weight gain to trigger Type II diabetes in susceptible individuals. There is also a separate mechanism involved in causing diabetes directly.

You might think of running a search on PubMed for Zyprexa and diabetes and taking him printouts of some of the abstracts.

As for your current situation, I'll bet that he's afraid you'll become addicted to Klonopin, because it's a nasty bad benzo. That's not uncommon, it's a prejudice a fair number of doctors have. It's also not very likely, especially if you've been taking a quarter milligram per day for a while. It's very unfortunate that doctors do this sometimes.

Meanwhile, you might give the Zyprexa a couple of days, to see if the sedation passes. Some of those start up side effects do. Definitely call the doc, though, and tell him what's going on for you now. I hope it helps.

[eskielover]

My Psych wants me to go onto Zyprexa when he realized I am having trouble with my eating again. He said it is used to gain weight & would only be temporary until I started eating again. I don't like putting drugs in my body after being the all time anti-depressant guinea pig for years & having almost every side effect possible even undocumented ones.

I did research on the drug before finally deciding not to take it. My blood work came back from my GP with a high glucose level & I thought if Zyprexa can initiate diabetes, the combination was not ok no matter how short of time is would be (which my estimate would not be very short).

I also do not like combining any meds with what I am taking for my migraines for fear that it will unbalance what is finally working for the past 1+ years. My life requires me to be very active & not thinking foggy so I just can't get myself to take another anti-psychotic drug. My psych feels that I am resisting treatment which is also part of it, but understands my feelings about drugs. I'm sure we will be discussing this in a few weeks at my appointment after even more weight loss.

[Rubylizard]

yeah, the diabetes thing scared me. i have a friend who is a pharmacist and he said i should be wary of it if i have any history of diabetics in my family and there are a LOT. personally, i am very, very tiny as are most people in my family until they get to be about my age and they gain weight. my blood sugar levels are usually bordering on the hypoglycemic levels which is scary because that can also lead to diabetes. i decided not to take the med anyway. i talked to the pdoc last night and he's mad at me now AGAIN. i don't like him. i don't know what to do though. he's already plotting new drugs for me to take. he's leaning towards risperidol (sp?) which i hear can mess up your hormones which i also have a problem with. i hate him sometimes. i will not take that. i want him to try to help me without these stupid poisons.

also, he keeps wanting me to do this stupid meditation video.... i hate meditation and always have. i don't know what else to do though that would satisfy him though.

i feel trapped and don't know where to go.

[eskielover]

I was given risperidol when I was transfered to UCLA psych hospital. They were sure they could help me or at least do all the tests that would show what was going on with me. It messed with my blood pressure & I passed out at breakfast. That went over real well. At least they had to pay attention to that.

The psychiatrist I have now started out trying to give me every med under the sun again. I had told him what I had taken before him, but we seemed to have a communication problem to start. Once everything finally got understood between us, everything went fine & he has been the best Psych I have ever had. He works with many clinical trials & is up on all the current alternative treatments. He went with the natural meds for a while. I knew they didn't do anything but they also didn't do anything bad to me, so I made him happy by taking them. He even tried light therapy for me & provided me with the light to use for a few months to see if it would help. It didn't, but I appreciated him trying. He would always put me into the hospital when he tried a new drug in order to monitor the side effects. He always started with an extreme small dose which meant a long hospital stay to see how it progressed. It really sucked because the environment was not one I tolerated well but realized he was only trying to help in the only way he could think of.

I agree with you that a psych should not plot out new drugs for you to take & should just work with the one he has you on. I know it is hard to find a new Psych but you might try to find one that wants to work with your ideas for not using meds. If you are going to a psychologist/therapist, they are really the ones that help without meds. A psychiatrists job & knowledge is only to push meds, except for a rare few who go beyond that. You might need to break out of where you are & find someone else that can help.

I also found meditation useless but had it cramed onto me in all the group sessions I attended while being hospitalized. Maybe that is why I have an adversion to it.

[PlanningtoLive]

The med worked really well for me, but I had to stop taking it. I started having severe fluid retention.

My ankles and legs basically just swelled up like balloons - it took a very long time, with the help of water pills, to get all that fluid gone.

[Rubylizard]

well i decided not to take it any more. i would rather be anxious than deal with being tired and weak. i personally think that drugs that mess around with my seratonin are BAD news for me. i read that this drug does that. my klonopin doesn't, which is why i am able to take it. i don't like its side effects either, but they are more tolerable. ugh. i really should dump the pdoc. i hate going to see him. he's thought of something else to push on me now i'm sure. i'm not interested. there has to be another way. i got a tai chi tape from the library, and that is soooo much better than meditation.

[(JD)]

.... tai chi vs meditation.... why not both?

[Rubylizard]

because i HATE meditation.

also, i think that any medicine that messes with my seretonin is BAD for me, personally. it seems to alter all my other body functions in really awful kinds of ways. if i had known zyprexa did that i would never have taken it. i feel so stupid. i've felt like crap ever since i took it last week and i collectively only took about 2.5 mg altogether.

i just feel so stupid. i shouldn't cave in to my doctor's drug pushing. i need to get rid of him.

[SS8282]

I took zyprexa - caused me to gain weight. Told my shrink that i didnt want to be on it anymore, and he took me off it.

Did you ask your doc why he put you on zyprexa? Maybe there's an alternative. I'm on both celexa and seroquel, and i'm ok with both of them - although I *think* celexa makes me sleepy during the day.

[mrsdepoint]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
yeah, i know it is class actioned, because of the risk of developing diabetes while on it. my shrink says that's because of the weight gain associated with it. i don't want to take this drug anyway, so hopefully these side effects at such a low dose will convince the doctor about it.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

My shrink also told me that Zyprexa causes diabetes because of the weight gain, but I went to the FDA web page online and found out the truth. If you are taking zyprexa and get diabetes 2.. then diabetes 2 might go away when you stop the zyprexa. This has nothing to do with weight gain. I immediatly stopped taking Zyprexa as I am already at a risk... overweight, weight around my stomach, diabetes 2 runs on my Mom's side. I miss zyprexa terribly! It was such a calming medicine. I no longer have the hallucinations (which I only had 1 or 2 of anyway) that I had that got my shrink to put me on zyprexa. It has really made my life much more unbearable without it, but diabetes is a bad disease.. and I don't want to take a chance of having it.

Carol

hey im a psychiatric nurse who also has suffered from major depression for many years..
you can check out this web site: www.mims.hcn.net.au and search olazapine/zyprexa
i have seen alot of clients on this medication and also my brother in law used to take it.. it does cause sedation and is one of its main side effects .. definately talk with your doctor cos you dont have to put up with the side effects especially if its impacting on your quality of life.. you can also check out this site for zyprexa.. its from the company that makes it..
http://www.lilly.com.au/health/medicines.cfm

[MLuckycharm76]

I have taken zyprexa for 3 years very succesfully.Only problem was the sleeping or feeling very fatigued. after almost 3 years I finally realized it had almost everything to do with when I took it in relation to when I actually went to bed and how long I was able to sleep. I took it at 11pm every night and would sleep well into late morning. After some tinkering I found out that after about the 4th hour post ingestion it made me very sleepy. If I slept then I would sleep about 8 hours and wake rested with much more energy. If you take the zyprexa for the recommended time at first and some benefit but still tired trying tweaking the time you take it. If you have bad side effects or notice no impropvement please consider a different drug or combo. Best wishes. Hope I helped some.

[bebe]

For some reason I had a doc that gave me samples of that. I took it for maybe three days and had a bad allergic reaction to it. My hands swelled up from it. And I felt like crap.

[Roy21]

I dont know about in the USA but in Australia zyprexa is only used to treat bi-polar or schitzophrenia, psychosis. In the usa do they use zyprexa for anxiety problems even when the person is not suffering from such conditions as listed above?

[vetttech]

I just started Zyprexa last week and already I've gained weight. My appetite has always been healthy to begin with, but this is ridiculous. I started the no-carb diet today, while it is still early. I'm usually 129 lbs, now I'm 134...that's in less than a week!! The way I look at it though, is I'd rather gain 5 lbs than get tardive dyskinesia from the Thorazine I was on.

[adieuolivaw]

Vettech, have you really looked at all of Zyprexa's possible side-effects? If I remember correctly, tardive dyskinesia is certainly one of those possible side-effects, as are other even more sinister, IRREVERSIBLE, and even FATAL side-effects. Because I'm one of those people who often has unusual reactions to medications, I search RxList on every drug I even consider taking. Please see http://www.rxlist.com/ . I also read the inserts. Then I google the drug for other possible information.

I'm not saying Xyprexa doesn't help a lot of people. I'm sure it does. However, for me the risks are much too high.

My doctor also tried to force me to take Zyprexa. I called and called his office to ask him why, because it is known to change body chemistry in just the opposite ways of the ones he said I needed. I've never had any psychotic symptoms. And I thought he could simply fill me in on the reason for his choice of this drug. He refused to speak to me, had the office girl tell me that he was tired of my questioning his every decision. Then the office girl said that the doctor-patient relationship was not working out. SHE CERTAINLY GOT THAT PART RIGHT!

It's my opinion that some docs get to talking to the drug reps, who are interested in finding off-label uses for their meds.
Then the doc conducts his own private unauthorized experiments, with the patient as guinea pig.

Harrumph! Well, so much for my rant. I became very watchful for these tactics since that same doc had also wanted to get me on Vioxx, long after the class action lawsuits began.

[CamW]

adieuolivaaw - When reading product monographs, such as that for Zyprexa (olanzapine), one has to realize that the drug companies are required to enter all the side effects that occurred to the participants of the clinical trials used to have that drug approved for use by Health Canada (or the FDA in the US), whether the studied drug caused the side effect or not. The chance of contracting tardive dyskinesia (TD) from Zyprexa is very remote. In fact, I am fairly certain that almost all case of TD reported from Zyprexa trials were a result of the Zyprexa unmasking TD that was originally caused by conventional antipsychotic (ie. Mellaril - thioridazine)use prior to the start of the Zyprexa.

The cause of a side effect from a medication is seldom a straight forward affair and many factors must be considered. I like to think of drug monographs as "lawyers documents, written by lawyers for lawyers". I find drug monographs to be of limited use in clinical practice and would much rather use results from evidence-based studies, such as those published by the Cochrane Review Group.

I once read an article a few years ago that explained the potential problems that occur when one reads drug monographs without understanding the context in which they are written. The article used a hypothetical drug monograph for purified water. The monograph listed cardiac arrythmias, convulsions, and death as side effects of water (one can drink too much water causing an electrolyte imbalance that can result in death from cardiac arrest). The article listed several terrible, life-threatening side effects without naming water as being the subject of the monograph. As the authors pointed out, anything used (eg. swallowed, rubbed onto the skin, injected, etc.) to elicit a medicinal effect must be considered a drug. When one increases water consumption when one has a head cold said water can be considered a drug. Increasing fluid intake when one has a cold helps to flush the viruses from the body by increasing urination.

A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing, especially when the information gained from that knowledge in not placed in its proper perspective. Medications need to be respected, not feared. Any information one gives about a medication must have a factual scientific basis and be as accurate as possible, within the current level of our understanding of pharmacology and physiology.

One more thing; drug reps are not allowed to give information on off-label use of medication that they are detailing unless there has been a study published in a peer-reviewed journal relating to the off-label use of the drug. Unless you are able to prove your claims (illegal actions by drug reps; your doctor conducting illegal, unapproved research) you could technically find yourself a defendant in a civil action. Please be careful that what you say is true and not speculation.

Thank you - Cam

[severelyunhinged]

Ive also been afraid of gettin Tardive Diskynesia from my antipsychotics. But my doctor says that the new kinds dont have as much risk for that as the older ones. I dont know, Im still scared.

I just wanted to add that I hate Zyprexa because it made me gain 30 pounds in two months, when I wasnt even over eating. I dont even remember if it helped with my symptoms but I do remember hating the fact that I kept on putting weight when I ate the same as I always have eaten.

I have lost some of the weight since I switched but Im still struggling with it. It sucks.

Good luck to everyone thats on Zyprexa, and if you like it then its kool. Im not saying its worthless either.

[adieuolivaw]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
The chance of contracting tardive dyskinesia (TD) from Zyprexa is very remote. In fact, I am fairly certain that almost all case of TD reported from Zyprexa trials were a result of the Zyprexa unmasking TD that was originally caused by conventional antipsychotic (ie. Mellaril - thioridazine)use prior to the start of the Zyprexa.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I do appreciate your opinion and rationale concerning Zyprexa's risks. I have been aware for some time of the limitations of the drug monographs AND also that the older antipsychotics are well-known to cause tardive dyskinesia as well as other serious problems. So far I have not found good evidence that Zyprexa or any atypical antipsychotic does not pose the same risks. I look forward to seeing any evidence-based studies, of a less flawed nature, that investigate Zyprexa's side-effects.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Medications need to be respected, not feared.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

The very experimental process which gives us medications is based on SKEPTICISM. Beyond that, the safety of the consumer also depends on the integrity of those involved in every part of the drug development, reporting of results, and drug approval system. That integrity is in question.

Your statement implies that one should have FAITH in the FDA and pharmaceutical companies. In actuality drug companies and the FDA are not adequately policed. Drug testing, reporting of results, and granting of drug approval are lax processes. There has been misrepresentation and failure-to-divulge on the part of both organizations, according to the testimony of their own employees. Common sense also tells us that the interests of those organizations often run counter to the interests of the consumer. In my opinion it would be naïve for a consumer to have "faith" in such a flawed process. Buyer beware!

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>

Any information one gives about a medication must have a factual scientific basis and be as accurate as possible, within the current level of our understanding of pharmacology and physiology.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

To whom are you speaking? That sounds like what one might hear in a pharmacology class. However we are lay persons. Are you suggesting only evidence-based studies are acceptable in the drug forum? Are you suggesting that noone may quote the monographs as if they were respectable information? And what of the considerable anecdotal information posted in this forum? Does it meet your criteria?

I LIKE to quote the monographs. The warnings section has obvious merit. The side-effects section is not alarmist when read properly. I find it useful as high ground from which to watch for emerging symptoms. One can see, by the way in which the subsections are arranged and emphasized, which side-effects are habitual and of genuine concern, as opposed to those which are only listed in a perfunctory manner in the tables. It's not as if I had said the drug monographs are the "last word" in information about medications. They are what they are. If it's de rigueuer in your set to discredit the monographs, is it required that the rest of us in the forum adopt the same mindset? Maybe it's a right-brained thing that I can deal with the Cochrane and the monographs at the same time, as "yes-and" with reservations, rather than "either-or." Anyway, I can hold both positions. Science is always giving us new answers. An "either-or" mind needs to throw something out to find a place for new information. My mind doesn't work like that.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Unless you are able to prove your claims (illegal actions by drug reps; your doctor conducting illegal, unapproved research) you could technically find yourself a defendant in a civil action. Please be careful that what you say is true and not speculation.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

For the record, I have made no such claims, as those versed in the law would realize. I'm sure you mean well. However you are misspeaking and distorting what I say to make it fit an imaginary legal scenario. You are entitled to dislike the opinions I vented about certain nameless medical and pharmacological personnel in the past. However, you are not entitled to your own private set of facts and laws and legal meanings, the authoritative misuse and inappropriate repetition of which only cause embarrassment to all parties concerned.

AFTERWORD: Cam, your help to this forum has been invaluable. I pay attention to everything you say, and I also look beyond, to find the good intentions. What bothers me about the reply you posted is not that you came down so heavily on me for so many reasons. What bothers me is that you seemed to care excessively about protecting the image of medical professionals, deserved or not. Also, you could not spare one word of comfort for me, when I had been treated shabbily by a doctor who did not respect patients' rights.

Adieu

[(JD)]

I think some of these posts deserve their own thread as it would be a welcomed discussion! With regards to the participants in those drug trials... you have to remember they don't even let ppl like me participate because I have those "rare" reactions already!

[adieuolivaw]

SKY: Well, I'm not sure how much duplication is tolerated in the forums, or which new topics you had in mind exactly. You have my vote to start new threads, if you care to do so.


Adieu