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#1
May 14, 2009, 12:45 AM
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In day treatment today, I talked about my 2nd (or so) worst abuse that I endured from my mother (I alluded to it in a post a few days ago. Something very deep, shameful, partially fact-based in a way that is still relevant today but in relation to others, not her, hence extremely difficult. I've felt a need to be verbally abused in the way that I was by my mother. I did it a night ago (Tues). via phone-sex for the first time relating to this issue. Not a "sex" issue per se; not sexual behavior. A verbal abuse thing.
So in day treatment group, I talked about it during process group. About the abuse by my mom, ways it's affected me, triggers, and the urge to self-harm by seeking abuse. No one said anything other than 1 guy--"It sounds like you know where it's all coming from." Well, yeah; duh. No sympathy, empathy, no offering consideration for the abuse I suffered --and it was a major deal, no offering soothing, supportiveness; just blank, quiet. The T gave me a 5 minute warning, at which point I thought people would jump in, but no one did. My T heavily encouraged me to open up about it to group. I've only talked about it to T's and via phone-sex. No regular people. So I finally did it, and zip. Guess I won't go into the part that is sexual abuse with them. They are so lame. I don't even want to go back. I think they're useless to me. To listen to stuff that I said I hadn't talked about before and do nothing? Why bother with them?
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out of my mind, left behind |
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#2
May 14, 2009, 12:53 AM
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I can certainly relate to this.
In group T, when I didn't get feedback on some things, I felt hurt - like no one cared. I, of course, felt totally unsupported....and the lesson I took from it was that I had to learn to be self-supportive because I can't depend on others to support me. Grrr. In reality, I found out later that some people were triggered by what I was talking about and were having trouble with the feelings that they were dealing with as a result of what I disclosed. Others didn't know how to relate and were afraid to comment for fear of saying the "wrong" thing. I think it was very brave of you to voice what you did. The lack of feedback sucks, especially when it probably took a lot of effort on your part to share what you are going through.
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Don't follow the path that lies before you. Instead, veer from the path - and leave a trail... 
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#3
May 14, 2009, 01:35 AM
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they probably didn't know what to say and were afraid to say something that could make things worse for you. i've been in situations like that as well but on the end of one of the silent people who cared but didn't know how to help. sorry you didn't get the response you were hoping for.
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#4
May 14, 2009, 02:27 AM
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I agree with reflection. They are not lame, they are there just like you aren't they? Perhaps some might have shown some false compassion and then you may have felt the falseness of that also? It sounds like you did a big thing talking about it and expected completely different results? You forget you've held this knowledge for a long time, but they heard it for the very first time, give each other time and space to come to each ones own reactions and feelings around it.
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Here is the test to find whether your mission on earth is finished. If you're alive, it isn't. ~Richard Bach |
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#5
May 14, 2009, 04:33 AM
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((((impy))))
that must have been so difficult for you. but, like the others have said, sometimes it just takes a bit of time to process. i told something to pdoc once, there was a beat where i saw it register, and then he just continued talking on about something else completely. he addressed it the next time i saw him, but i was a dumbfounded myself. i never would have expected that reaction, ever. especially from someone who was meant to be supportive. i went back to your other thread, to see if you had responded to my post there. guess what? no post from deli!!  looks like the post-monster got hungry again. but the essential gist was that i think you would be safe sharing with us, if you wanted to. i know you don't think we'll respond well, and it really would be putting yourself in a place of vulnerability, but at the same time - a lot of us have been in similar places to yourself. our puny brains might be able to stretch enough to be able to 'get it'. the other point was that you seemed (and i'm interpreting a very hazy post here, so i'm probably wrong) to be saying that you fit this "type" of guy, and that women typically would have a problem with that. forgive me if i'm way off track. but if i'm not completely missing the mark: then yeah - i think it's possible that you are abusing yourself with general truths, but you should always remember that you are so much more than just a "type", and most women would also see beyond this even if they answered "yes" to your hypothetical general question. don't know if that helps at all. if not, just pretend i didn't say any of it, and just came here instead to give you hugs >>> .
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 sunrise
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#6
May 14, 2009, 09:12 AM
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Imapatient, you did a very brave thing in that group. Good Work. Do you feel like punishing them now? Everything about your disclosure was probably really heavy. People commonly respond to heavy disclosures this way. I'm sorry that you didn't get what you needed. It is good that you came here to get support though........
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Don't let your problems or the world make you feel small. Stretch your arms out over your head. Take a deep breathe. Tell yourself that you are big. You are big, not small. You always have space, you are not trapped........ I'm an ISFJ |
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#7
May 14, 2009, 09:45 AM
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It seems like everyone is being very defensive of how the group reacted, but Imapatient, I think I see things like you do.
May I ask, how long have you been part of the group? I know when I have participated in group therapy, I have always tried to be very supportive and sympathetic. If someone has the courage to disclose something deeply personal and/or painful, I respect that and honor it by responding appropriately. From what you describe, it sounds like the group handled it badly. And the T handled it badly as well - maybe people were uncomfortable responding, but the T should have facilitated the interaction better, so that you could get some useful or validating feedback. I don't blame you for not wanting to go back. I don't see how it could be helpful for you to take risks like that and be 'hung out to dry' afterwards. I'm sorry it happened this way, Imapatient.
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#8
May 14, 2009, 11:32 PM
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What I expected minimally and maybe only at all since it's so involved and heavy, was for someone to say "that's a horrible way for a parent to treat their kind" or what is commonly said when not getting into specific details "I'm a parent and I would never treat my kid that way." It doesn't take a lot of investment and experience in groups to say something as basic like that. It's done all the time for things less severe and more severe. Part of why I mean the group is lame is in reference to the people currently in the program. They aren't very helpful--in general to each other. A friend in the group’s--an old-timer about to finish tomorrow--feedback (she wasn’t in the process group I was in that day) was that sometimes you just get that mix of people at a given time, as is presently the case. Beyond the lameness in my one situation, I'm wondering if I can get much out of the program with those sorts of people in it right now. Unfortunately they split us into 2 process groups everyday with varying members, so I’ll never have the exact same people in group again.
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out of my mind, left behind |
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#9
May 15, 2009, 06:14 AM
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I also think it is strange that they break you up into different process groups each day. What do you think is the reason for that? It seems to me that being with the same group of people for processing each day would encourage more bonding and openness to express and disclose more, and receive better feedback (or any feedback at all!) I would like to encourage you to talk to the T about all your concerns. I wish I had some better advice for you....I do think I understand. 
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#10
May 15, 2009, 09:48 AM
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imapatient, do you have any sort of connections with any of these people in your group? Communication begins with connections............
__________________
Don't let your problems or the world make you feel small. Stretch your arms out over your head. Take a deep breathe. Tell yourself that you are big. You are big, not small. You always have space, you are not trapped........ I'm an ISFJ |
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#11
May 15, 2009, 10:08 AM
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 , I agree, most people in recovery, be that one on one or group have been victimsed during their lifes, and I'm surprised that those who have been in this position are quick to label others. It feels like, if your no use to me then your just a "thing".
__________________
Here is the test to find whether your mission on earth is finished. If you're alive, it isn't. ~Richard Bach |
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#12
May 15, 2009, 06:53 PM
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I would have a problem if the same thing happened to me in a group. Have you had a private T session since the group and been able to talk to him/her about what you just told us?
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--SIMCHA |
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#13
May 15, 2009, 08:31 PM
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if i disclosed something that was terribly hard for me, the least i would expect would be someone to reflect "hmm, that was hard for you to do" or "you were brave" or something. even if they didn't have the compassion to be like "i'm sorry that happened". i think that one guy who did make that comment, impy, was trying. it wasn't very useful to you, but i think maybe you could look at the sentiment behind it - that he felt the need to give you *something*. i am wondering, though - quite apart from this - how you've been finding group in general? have you found it useful before? myself, i think i'm too analytical a person to be able to benefit from discussing the more deep seated issues i have. maybe some of the lighter stuff, where i can connect with others, but not be too upset if that connection doesn't happen. and if i discuss the lighter stuff, i'll probably have more capacity to just let the unhelpful/inaccurate comments go, instead of being my analytical self, who tends to demand a high level of accuracy in what's said. |
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#14
May 16, 2009, 06:30 AM
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regardless of where the other members of the group were coming from, it would absolutely suck to disclose something so private and personal and be met with nothing. i actually think that to convey compassion/mutual understanding through silence is a terribly difficult task, for even the most adept of us. it requires being totally present in the moment, and being able to sit with the other person and resonate.
of course it wasn't a conspiracy, but impy's T did encourage him to disclose, so she (he?) at least thought the group were capable of helping impy in some way. certainly she wouldn't have suggested it if she thought it was going to be met with anything less than compassion or understanding. i'm sorry this happened, impy. i can imagine you came to us because you needed your feelings to be validated but we're also throwing in alternative interpretations into the package. maybe not quite what you needed, right now. i'm wondering if you've gone back to group, and how things are sitting with you now. i'm so sad on your behalf  . i disclosed to pdoc yesterday, and it's was the most momentous and supportive occassion in my therapy with him, or anyone, ever. i would have wished that your disclosure would have turned out the same way.
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#15
May 16, 2009, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
__________________
"Therapists are experts at developing therapeutic relationships." |
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#16
May 16, 2009, 06:22 PM
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I'd like to know what his T was thinking about that.
__________________
--SIMCHA |
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#17
May 17, 2009, 02:31 AM
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For KTGirl, the set-up is this: There are maybe 20 people in day treatment at a time (it varies) with some going 5 days/week, 3 days, 2 days, etc. When there are enough people, on a given day, they split up the process part into 2 groups. Otherwise you can get a 15 person group where no one gets adequate time. So groups range from 5-8/9 with varying membership by day. My individual T encouraged me to talk about it in group to share it with other "regular" people for the first time to get some of it out of my head and get feedback from others. It is very personal, but in some ways it isn't that deep in itself, just my feelings about it and the context. It's about some verbal abuse I experienced as a kid specific to me that is not something anyone else could've experienced but for a tiny, tiny amount of people--1 in tens of thousands. It stems from this personal trait and the abuse born of a severely mentally ill mother. And a very, very unlikely experience of abuse at that, so we're not talking about incest or anything. I'm being vague, as I was in an earlier message alluding to this stuff to avoid getting into going over the details. The main rationale for talking about it more directly is that the thoughts I've been having about it and my desire to seek verbal abuse replicating it are a current thing and more intense than ever. I know things that have been triggering me. So, the big motivations were 1. To be forthcoming about my desire to self-harm (and the little bit that I’ve done recently) whereas I had been only completely vague 2. To get a check form other people on what I’m feeling and 3. To share the stuff (not all of it) with others in a safe environment since I’ve kept it inside me—it’s been a way of keeping others at a distance and the hope from T that getting some feedback and hopefully support from “regular people” would be beneficial and help me let my guard down overall. A thought from him is that in general many of them are dealing with serious issues, including self-harm or desires to do it, have a history of abuse, etc. Share it with others who have similar things in their lives past/present before sharing with others in my life who don’t have more understanding of abuse and experience with it. I’ve never spoken to my family about it (my mom died 18 years ago), no friends, no romantic partners—it and the similar-but-Nuclear Issue are things that perhaps get in the way of intimacy and would less-so if I could get beyond the issues more than I have; in a way they’ve been paralyzing, particularly in seeking and having romantic relationships. Dealing with them more fully and in different ways than I have been for years—in groups, etc., will hopefully lessen the degree to which I feel weighed down by them. I’ve existed in isolation about some things and he thinks—and I agree—that I will be better off if I don’t let them get in my way so much of relationships by talking about them more and getting other’s views, etc. I have to say that all of the above seems like boiler-plate therapy, individual and group, and material and ways of dealing with things, so some of the reactions here are puzzling, too. I’m trying to keep it abstract now to avoid getting into the details more so but it's the basic model of seeking help via different treatment settings and modes in different ways is what’s done. The stuff I talked about wasn’t something out-of-this-world triggering, common, and notoriously abusive like rape or incest. It's hard for me to talk about it since I've only ever done so with a T, and part of why I spoke about it was the "safe environment" dynamic to make it easier for me to talk about it with non-pros--family, etc. The group reacted the way they did for whatever reasons in that moment. That’s the way it was. That’s a comment on them individually and as a group, whatever led them to react the way they did. A friend in the program told me that when she started the program there were a lot of people who didn’t speak up. Drove her crazy. She thought the program was going to be useless with that type of people and/or program being that way. But as others cycled in, the dynamics changed. Who’s there now and their m.o. might explain things a bit; maybe if one person had stepped forward and spoke up others would’ve followed suit. Maybe not. I had an expectation that wasn’t met. To whatever extent I maybe misread the situation or those there aren’t as talkative, or the makeup created a weird vibe; in part I think the lack of a “leader” type amongst the group made things more passive. The T in the group is less interactive than the other T, but her lack of speaking up was a bit odd, but less so than if the other T were the one there. I’m still a bit baffled, but it was what it was. It was an “assignment” from T, and not a new one, but one I’ve resisted for years and I thought I’d take the step he thought could be helpful—me, too, given that I was now heavily into a therapy treatment program centered in great part around peer-support/interactions. As good an arena as any if to bring it up with non-pros. As my friend said, sometimes you have a mix of people that aren’t very expressive or helpful. That’s what I mean by lame. I’m now one of the most senior people in the program, so I’m used to having other and more senior people taking the reins more so. With them gone, I’m seeing that the groups are less helpful right now—less experienced people in all ways, some much younger people, etc. T is baffled, too, but he wasn’t there so he has no direct perspective and knows my view only. We talked about it but I won’t get into it more than that. It was what it was.
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out of my mind, left behind |
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#18
May 17, 2009, 07:00 AM
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(((((((((((((((((((((impy)))))))))))))))))))
I'm really sorry you didn't get what you needed from the group Be gentle with you....
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#19
May 17, 2009, 06:30 PM
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It's all o.k. with me. Didn't get some feedback and hoped for support and perhaps pointing out of and suggestions about misperceptions. It's not personal, and it's not like they harmed me. I know now more about the terrain of how things work there.
__________________
out of my mind, left behind |
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