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  #1  
Old Jun 13, 2009, 12:27 PM
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hangingon hangingon is offline
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#####,

I really had time to sit down and think about the email you wrote me as well as to ponder more on our last session. I am a bit stumped that you are placing the blame on me, as far as our work being affected, by me not telling you sooner how I felt about so many changes in scheduling, including cancellations. That is not the case.

You mentioned in your email that you would have honored me and affirmed my assertiveness if I had told you how the changes made me feel. I was doing just that last week, which took a ton on my part to do, and there was no honor for my assertiveness, just defensive reaction on your part.

I am beginning to think that if I had told you three months earlier, it would have made no difference. You see I was finally starting to take some control over my therapy, only you overpowered that control with your defensive reactions. I noticed some of the same reactions when we were talking about breaks but I let that slide thinking maybe you had a bad day.

I did not go into session last week in an attempt to bail out of our relationship; it was to tell you how the changes were making me feel, to make you more aware of it. Certainly not to let it ruin our relationship. Your response to my concern is what is truly affecting our relationship. You were not welcoming of my concern at all. In your email you told me to take notice of my transference, as if it’s a bad thing; transference happens in everyday life and is certainly most common in therapy, in fact, welcomed; although apparently it wasn’t in my case.

It is counter-transference that is a big no, no in therapy. That should not have entered the room.
I have taken a few psychology classes myself, and have done clinical work, where I had performed therapeutic interviews with clients at a psych ward; I had to be very aware of my own prejudices/ issues so as not to let counter-transference take place, because counter-transference is not therapeutic and should not enter such a relationship.

I sit here thinking maybe you had something serious going on with your family. Maybe there is something going on in your own life that made you so reactionary. If that were the case, I would certainly understand such a session taking place #####. Perhaps I remind you of someone you don’t get along with, something, it has to be something.

You left me feeling belittled. You threw digs at me, one being when you asked me how I felt about you taking three weeks off in July; I said its vacation, everyone needs them. But you snapped back with it’s not vacation, I’m not going to be gone the whole time, it’s personal leave…..And there will be NO emailing; you said it as if you were scolding a 6 year old. I wasn’t even complaining about email. It was like you were intentionally trying to hurt me.

Another one you snapped back with is that you’re other clients would say no when you ask them if you can change their time. It wasn’t about them #####, it was about what I needed. I’m not your other client’s. The final blow was you telling me that you couldn’t even think of a name of someone that you could refer me to that would not change my appointment times as much as you. As if asking for some consistency was a huge deal.

I’m sorry you are having such a hard time dealing with the schedule changes with your new position, but that is no reason for you to be taking your frustration out on me. I am still fairly new with therapy and have always had a hard time speaking out; now I fear it even more because the one person who was supposed to hear me and be sensitive to those needs, the one safe place became unsafe.

It was my first time ever speaking up to you ##### and leaves the thought in my head, what if this is how she always is with confrontation, or when one speaks up; if that’s the case, then it is not professional behavior, and it would leave me not wanting to pursue future therapeutic work with you.

I’m shocked that my finally speaking up for myself was turned into such a mess. I’m am really worried about going in to see you next week, of having you become so reactionary again. I literally went home and cried most that night. I had never expected such an experience in what was supposed to be a safe professional therapeutic relationship.

########
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  #2  
Old Jun 13, 2009, 12:30 PM
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ECHOES ECHOES is offline
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I would say No, take it with you and talk it out there in session.

I think her wanting you to speak about it is about wanting you to speak about things as they happen and in session.

I totally understand your need for more resolution.

Last edited by ECHOES; Jun 13, 2009 at 01:08 PM.
  #3  
Old Jun 13, 2009, 12:57 PM
laura2 laura2 is offline
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its hard,... i'm not sure how much, if anywhere, you will get with email, as someone mentioned before her last response was very carefully "scriptured", she's on the defensive, she took your comments totally the wrong way, & no doubt will take this the same, & may just come back with more of the same, which will only add to your frustrations.

I do not think your going to get any more of her taking responsibilty "on email", it is better to do it face to face, or to call, there's no hiding behind words, but next week can feel like a hell of a long time away, & you shouldn't have to continue to feel like this until then, if you really want to send it, & totally understand, i would do too, then if it was me i would say at the end of the email, "can we discuss this before next week", phone or "crisis meeting" as such, you shouldnt have to sit on this until next week, ultimately you gotta do what feels right for you,

what's is your gut saying.....
  #4  
Old Jun 13, 2009, 01:30 PM
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I personally would take out the stuff you are guessing about, ex why she is doing what she is or why she might have counter transference problems.

I would stick to the facts only, you have a huge case going for you. Going for what, I am not sure, personally I think you should find another T. She isn't going to have a sudden epiphany that she did anything wrong. She started off being defensive and is continuing to offer more of that. I can's see that changing.

It is almost like you are wanting to take care of her instead of her taking care of you. I really think this is a bad T, it shouldn't have to take a client to tell her that her excessive cancellations are unprofessional and can leave a client feeling bad. You shouldn't have ever had to speak up in the first place, she should know how to do her job already.

She is already telling you that you can't fulfill your needs because she can't be consistent or reliable as a therapist and her past behavior shows this too. In fact she doesn't think she has done anything wrong, she thinks all T's in private practice does this, so she isn't going to change.

As much as that statement must hurt to hear, I think you really need to see it as a form of truth, her truth of how she is. Unless you feel you can still deal with her cancellations (she isn't going to change) and her defensiveness (that is her personality), than you should move on. Stop wasting anymore time with someone who can't really help you. It isn't you anyway, it is HER. It is sad and I feel bad for you and I hope you will allow us to help support your through this.
  #5  
Old Jun 13, 2009, 02:07 PM
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Amazonmom Amazonmom is offline
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You can either tell your T this face to face, or you can send it in an email.

Only do it because you need to air this out for yourself. Don't send or tell T this because you expect or want a certain reaction from her. She is likely to just respond with more defensiveness and accusations. If this will hurt you more, don't tell her.

I am so sorry this is happening to you!!!!!
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  #6  
Old Jun 13, 2009, 03:52 PM
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sunrise sunrise is offline
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I guess I would send the email only if I had decided I did not want to ever see her again. It's kind of like a parting closure, and in fact, I would expect her to respond, if at all, with more defensiveness, blaming, etc. So if you don't need to hear that, you could block her from your email after you send your message.

If you do plan to see her either one last time or on a continuing basis, I would say don't send the email. That would let her prepare artful statements and arguments against you if you give her warning of what you want to discuss. Instead, distill your letter down to a list of short bullet points for yourself, and go in to the session with your list and tell her you have several points you wish to discuss with her, and then go through them one by one. Don't let her distract you from your course with changing the topic, hurting your feelings, etc. Just politely listen to her response before moving on to your next point. Before moving on, say, "is there more?" And if she has more to say on that point, let her say it, then ask again, "is there more?" until she is all done on that point. Then move on to the next point you want to make. If she gets off topic and is addressing points further down on your list, politely interrupt and say, "I want to discuss that too--it's on my list. But I want to finish up on ________, so can you hold that thought? Now, about this issue..." Just keep the meeting moving so you make sure to cover all the points you have to make. If she responds to your points with something blaming, off-base, or whatever, point out her defensiveness and blaming behavior to her, "it seems like by telling me you treated other clients differently from me and didn't cancel on them because they told you "no", you were taking advantage of me because I was not as confident and secure as they were and able to stand up for myself." Another good response to a person who disagrees with you is, "I understand what you are saying, but I disagree." That lets the person feel heard and also tells them they don't need to keep harping on the topic because you do understand what they are saying.

I thought there were a lot of good points in your letter, but one point was not clear to me, and I think you could tighten that up. That is this paragraph:
Quote:
Another one you snapped back with is that you’re other clients would say no when you ask them if you can change their time. It wasn’t about them #####, it was about what I needed. I’m not your other client’s.
I think an important point here is that when she tried to change appointment times with other clients, they said "no", and wouldn't put up with that behavior from her. So she toed the line. But with you, who were very accommodating, she took advantage and walked all over you, canceling again and again, while with other clients who wouldn't take her s**t, she behaved more professionally. I don't think that point comes through in what you wrote. To me, the important thing is that she treated you worse than her other clients because you let her and didn't stand up to her.

In addition, a point you didn't make (and maybe you don't want to--but I would if in your shoes) is how she minced words about how she doesn't cancel appointments with you, she merely changes them. She is playing semantic games with you and I would not let her get away with that. If you are waiting for your appointment at her office or with very short notice, and she calls and says she won't be there, that is a cancellation. You made time for her in your schedule, rearranged your day for the appointment, took the time to travel to her office, and she stood you up. That's cancellation. If she wants to call it "changing" an appointment because she offers to see you the next day, that does not make it any less worse an offense. Don't let her hide behind this difference in words to make her offense seem less worse. She should give you 24 hours notice minimum if she is canceling an appointment or rescheduling. Really, rescheduling/changing an appointment is canceling one appt time and scheduling a second. There is a cancellation embedded in every change. I believe that if she is going to cancel with less than 24 hours notice, she should give you the next appointment for free. If she applies such negative consequences to herself (and tells her clients so they can hold her to this), she may be able to extinguish this harmful and unprofessional behavior in herself. Because if it means she will get less money, maybe she will shape up. Maybe you could offer this suggestion to her as a "problem solving" brainstorm.

Because you feel so unsafe going to see her and there is the possibility she may be very defensive and blaming again, I would consider bringing someone with me to the appointment in order to hold her to professional behavior. It it were me, I would bring my sister with me, and just have her sit in the background during the discussion. The presence of someone else will help keep your therapist from misbehaving; the other person doesn't have to say anything and in fact should not be part of the conversation. I would see this as akin to what they do in the doctor's office when a male doctor or practitioner has to examine a woman with her clothes off. They have a female nurse join them so that there can be no question of abuse or unprofessional conduct. Having a third party there will not only keep your T's behavior in line, but will also protect your therapist, because there will be a witness to her actions and words so that her client (you) could not later accuse her of doing/saying something she didn't. If you want to continue therapy with your T, and you can regain a feeling of safety, then the third person could be eliminated.

As another suggested, I would also minimize the discussion of transference/counter-transference. I see using those terms as just some sort of psychobabble cover up of what really happened. Stick to talking about specific behaviors, actions, and things she said to you, rather than psych labels. Giving something a psych label can be a way of minimizing it. "Hangingon, what I did to you--cancel 8 times--isn't really so bad. You just think it is because it reminds you of your mother. You were simply having transference..." etc. So what if her actions reminded you of your mother (or whoever), that doesn't excuse her behavior! Since she is the psychotherapist and you are not, stay away from the psych lingo because that is her domain and she has more power within it.

hangingon, if you do decide you want to send the letter, I think it might be good to hold off for a day or two, then come back to that decision and the letter. Maybe you will want to change the letter or include things that hadn't occurred to you at this time. You mentioned before that you were going to go to see another counselor about this, a person you have already seen. Maybe you might want to wait to send the email or make a decision on whether you will see your T again or not, until after talking to this counselor.

When is your next appointment with your T scheduled for?

Wow, this is so long. Sorry about that.... Hope you will find something of use. In any case: ((((((((((hangingon))))))))))
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  #7  
Old Jun 13, 2009, 04:06 PM
Anonymous39281
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hangingon, because you have a history of emailing your more difficult thoughts and feelings with her between session i'd say go ahead and send it. i think her response will tell you what you need to know to decide whether or not to continue with her.
  #8  
Old Jun 13, 2009, 06:53 PM
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deliquesce deliquesce is offline
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(((hangingon)))

i am worried about you sending that email. i think your T will use it as a further opportunity to twist your words and turn it right back on you. as others have said, i would send it IF i had already decided i was not ever seeing her again, and was ok with either not receiving a response or receiving something incredibly hurtful that i had decided i was not going to reply to.

if you are still uncertain about wanting to see your T, then maybe you should take this email with you to your next session. i know you find it difficult to express your innermost thoughts there, but if you have this already written out, it might be easier.

this is kind of difficult and gross for me to do, but this is the kind of response i see coming from your T. i'm not doing it to hurt you, or because i want to demonise her, but because i think that this will be her likely response given that this is how she has responded to your 2 previous emails and one in-session discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hangingon View Post
#####,

I really had time to sit down and think about the email you wrote me as well as to ponder more on our last session. I am a bit stumped that you are placing the blame on me, as far as our work being affected, by me not telling you sooner how I felt about so many changes in scheduling, including cancellations. That is not the case.
i am not placing any "blame" on you, hangingon, just pointing out how your inaction has led to this situation. there is no judgement on my part, just a stating of the facts.

You mentioned in your email that you would have honored me and affirmed my assertiveness if I had told you how the changes made me feel. I was doing just that last week, which took a ton on my part to do, and there was no honor for my assertiveness, just defensive reaction on your part.
i have already mentioned that there may have been some countertransference. but i find it interesting that my valid points (see above) are being dismissed as being "just defensive" also. i think you may be engaging in black/white thinking here.

I am beginning to think that if I had told you three months earlier, it would have made no difference. You see I was finally starting to take some control over my therapy, only you overpowered that control with your defensive reactions. I noticed some of the same reactions when we were talking about breaks but I let that slide thinking maybe you had a bad day.
again, i think this may be a transference issue on your part. maybe you had issues of power/control with your last therapist, and you are transferring those negative expectations and reenacting them here. i have never sought to control you, hangingon, i think your perception of a lack of power has just been the result of your refusing to take it yourself.

I did not go into session last week in an attempt to bail out of our relationship; it was to tell you how the changes were making me feel, to make you more aware of it. Certainly not to let it ruin our relationship. Your response to my concern is what is truly affecting our relationship. You were not welcoming of my concern at all. In your email you told me to take notice of my transference, as if it’s a bad thing; transference happens in everyday life and is certainly most common in therapy, in fact, welcomed; although apparently it wasn’t in my case.
i did not say your transference was a bad thing. i only pointed it out thinking that if you took note of it it might help modulate your intense emotional reaction to this situation. i agree that transference takes place in every day life and in therapy, and my pointing it out *was* using it for therapeutic benefit. if it wasn't welcomed, it would not have been mentioned.

It is counter-transference that is a big no, no in therapy. That should not have entered the room.
I have taken a few psychology classes myself, and have done clinical work, where I had performed therapeutic interviews with clients at a psych ward; I had to be very aware of my own prejudices/ issues so as not to let counter-transference take place, because counter-transference is not therapeutic and should not enter such a relationship.
i have already said that there may have been some counter transference on my part. if i am willing to accept responsibility for my part in this affair, i would challenge you to accept your responsibility also.

I sit here thinking maybe you had something serious going on with your family. Maybe there is something going on in your own life that made you so reactionary. If that were the case, I would certainly understand such a session taking place #####. Perhaps I remind you of someone you don’t get along with, something, it has to be something.

You left me feeling belittled. You threw digs at me, one being when you asked me how I felt about you taking three weeks off in July; I said its vacation, everyone needs them. But you snapped back with it’s not vacation, I’m not going to be gone the whole time, it’s personal leave…..And there will be NO emailing; you said it as if you were scolding a 6 year old. I wasn’t even complaining about email. It was like you were intentionally trying to hurt me.
i am a professional and have never intentionally tried to hurt you. i am sorry you were hurt by my response. this might be something we can look at more closely in our next session - why my going on a break and not offering email makes you feel like you are being scolded.
...
ugh, ENOUGH!! my point is just that... i think her last email was very carefully worded... and i do not think she is going to give any more ground with this one either. i do not think her response will be at all helpful to you.

i hope what i've done doesn't upset you, hangingon. doing it has kind of upset me. but i thought maybe it would be easier coming from a friend pointing out what she might (likely) do, rather than coming from your T herself... where she would do it with a lot more authority and control.

i really would encourage you to look elsewhere for a therapist who can be professional .

Thanks for this!
FooZe
  #9  
Old Jun 13, 2009, 06:59 PM
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FooZe FooZe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunrise View Post
... tell her you have several points you wish to discuss with her, and then go through them one by one. Don't let her distract you from your course with changing the topic, hurting your feelings, etc. Just politely listen to her response before moving on to your next point. Before moving on, say, "is there more?" And if she has more to say on that point, let her say it, then ask again, "is there more?" until she is all done on that point. Then move on to the next point you want to make. If she gets off topic and is addressing points further down on your list, politely interrupt and say, "I want to discuss that too--it's on my list. But I want to finish up on ________, so can you hold that thought? Now, about this issue..." Just keep the meeting moving so you make sure to cover all the points you have to make. If she responds to your points with something blaming, off-base, or whatever, point out her defensiveness and blaming behavior to her...
An excellent plan, sunrise! If hangingon carries it out in full, though, she should also make sure to bill her T for valuable professional services rendered. Probably as only a one-time thing, though. That T sounds pretty difficult to keep on as a long-term client.

------------------------------------
Hadn't seen deli's post yet when I wrote the above. More good advice there.
  #10  
Old Jun 13, 2009, 10:16 PM
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hangingon hangingon is offline
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Thank all of you for your responses. I think I am going to wait till I see her in session Tuesday of next week to address some of this stuff.

Sunrise,
I think a list is a great idea. Also, I will not be seeing my college counselor until July 7th as she will be away on vacation. It would have been nice if it took place before I went in to see my T again. To hear some objectivity for another in the field would have been great.

I am at a point now where unless she really apologizes for her behavior and offers a good plan, I am not going to be inclined to see her anymore.

This therapy is supposed to be about me, not her insecurities of having someone call her out on something unprofessional.

I have a feeling that she just wants me to be pushed along anyways. Who wants to stay where they are not wanted. It was like she took this opportunity to do what she may have wanted to do for a while. I sensed her frustration and defensive behavior the first time I brought up the issue about taking breaks 3 weeks ago.

She suggested that I take break when I emailed her saying that so much was going on and that I was having a hard time sitting down to study for an upcoming exam. I emailed back telling her that my intention was not to take a break just to inform her how things have been going between session.
She was not happy in the session and told me that she doesn't care what other people say, she will not change her mind about taking breaks. Personally, I think it should be totally up to me if I want to take one, not her opinion. If she made a simple statement saying that its ok to take a break if you want or need to that would have been good enough for me. Leaving the ball in my hands so to speak.

Deli,
Thank you for your well thought out responses. I'm sure you are correct after her last email to me. I don't think she has any intention of changing her view. It did not upset me at all, it was good to hear how it could be manipulated.

Fool Zero,
You mean I can be therapist for the day.....oh yeah, now that would be lots of counter-transference.

Amazonmom,
I like your idea of going without any expectations as far as her response. Going in an taking control for myself sounds like a good idea, though often, I feel so small in there.

Exoticflower,
Sticking to the facts is probably best, leaves less room for subjectivity.
Sort of like Sunrise's idea of a list to work through. It will be good to go in with a plan, but without high expectations as to the outcome.

Laura,
Thanks for your response as well. I decided that I am going to go in and see her. Hard as that may be.

Reflection,
I have thought of doing what you mentioned but as someone else stated I don't want her to have time to prepare for her response. I want to see her behavior in action when I bring these things up.

Echos,
Thank you as well, I will not be sending the email.

PS.....can I bring my voice recorded and set it to on in my purse, without telling her lol.....not that I could use it for anything but my own personal use, sometimes you forget much that took place......too bad that's not legal huh....
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