[BlueMoon6]

I am having a sadder day. I re-read many times what was posted to me about processing these overwhelming feelings and I think the best thing to do is to allow my subconscious to process and not focus on the session.

I have found that since then, my brain really did do some processing. I let it go, I did what I had to do the last few days and now, I am feeling something else. I am clearer, but sad. I am afraid to go there and think too much about the session. I was afraid I was of my father, but loved him anyway. I was afraid of my mother, but confused by the way she treated me. I thought I must be such a bad kid to deserve this. Ftt thought she might have been bi-polar from the sound of her behavior. She was up, she was down, it was all about her, and I was confused and very lonely. I wanted protection from her, but there wasnt any. I needed protection from my father, but there wasnt any. I felt so alone. There was nothing and nobody.

The other thing I want to write about it how much I miss Desk-t. I cant even express in words how much. She was not a good choice of t for me, she did some really unprofessional things, she was cold and distant, but the way I see her, is that she was very, very human. She was really lousy at being my alter-mother. She didnt want to be and no matter how hard I tried, I couldnt turn her into a warm mother. But we had a good connection. About other things. She has her issues, she brought them to work, but on some level, she made a good friend. I thought she was loyal and honest. She was interesting and funny. And very intelligent. And cared about me in the way she could. I saw her for 1 yr 4 mos and 2x/wk for a lot of that time. We spent a lot of time together, and she saw all of my kids and H. What I am saying is that I left so abruptly. I cant even remmeber which session was our last, and what the last thing she said to me was. I didnt know I was never coming back when I left. I miss her and Im sure she must be wondering what the heck happened. What could be going on in my mind. I am sitting now in a Starbucks around the corner form her office and I feel like stopping in and giving her a hug and telling her I miss her and its all OK. I feel sorry for her and I am so sorry for being so bad at this and not being able to close with her. I think if I did go in there for a last session Id try to talk but only cry and cry and cry and tell her I miss her. I am not real sure what it all is about. I see a part of her that I can so relate to. She is really far from the perfect image I had of her, but I can so realate to the less than perfect person she is.

She reminds me so much of my mother it is unreal. Maybe on some level by seeing her for all of her imperfections I can see my mother in a different way. I dont know. But Im not there yet with my mother.

Dt wanted me to be a grown-up. She was good at telling me how to be a grown-up. I like that. She was awful at allowing me to be a child. I felt dismissed and like there was a piece of my therapy missing. But I liked being a grwon-up with her.

I dont know what to do. A closure session or any session with her at this point would be a complete disaster. I couldnt say what I want to say, Id be a puddle on the floor. I dont want to hurt her but just disappearing like this. She did a lot for me and really tried. I just still dont know what to do with all of this sadness and hurt.

Give it time. It will feel better in time. You're probably right, another session with her would be a mistake, but if you just want to let her know you've found another tdoc and it seems to be okay, why not just call and leave a message to that vein. Then you will at least know that she knows you are being taken care of.

does it surprise me that you miss her? nope.

i read someplace that kids (pets), people strive for postive attention. not getting that they seek bad attention. the absolute worst thing a parent, caregiver what ever can give is no attention...so yeah...desk t may not have been great...but hey she was yours.

she was familiar...her treatment of you was not nice and warm and cuddly but it beat no treatment and neglect. and it sounds like it touched on something familair..maybe like mom (forgive me if i'm reaching...got a cold and my brain is clouded). it's scary to go towards something new...you know what you have with something old...it may suck but at least you know what it is...and in that light it is safe.

and its okay to mourn the change...which is what you are doing. but hey i have read your posts since going to ftt and i would embrace her...she sounds wonderful...and i can hear the changes coming in your words..and the heraling starting already...you were so ready to move on...just by challenging desk t...inside you knew she wasn't right for you (dare i say anybody? oh did i type that out loud??? it's good she isn't my t..she'd be wearing that desk)
hell at timkes i miss my old t who abused me in ways i'll be in therapy for in years just to heal from....and she never even sat at her crummy ikea desk!

take some deep breaths...you feel the need to call then do so but relize that you will probably never get the kind of reaction you want from her (she's a little emotionally stunted maybe damn it slipped out again)

i think maybe i should quit while i'm ahead but yer getting my point i hope. you are doing great...

stumpy & the head of a thousand rowdy peeps

Awwww, (((((((((((((((((((((Moon)))))))))))))))))))))

It makes so much sense that you would miss her. Whether or not she was the most healing T for you, you still had a relationship with her, and you had been seeing her for a long time. You made a BIG change. I think it is probably a healthy sign that you are moving on and letting yourself attach some to ftt...part of that is letting desk T go. There is always some mourning with letting go, I think. You are doing a big thing by letting yourself feel and acknowledge these feelings.

For me, sometimes when I make a change to be healthier, there is part of me that longs to hold onto the old, unhealthy behavior (or person, or whatever). It is familiar, and being gentle and kind to myself is unfamiliar. Unfamiliar things can feel scary. I wonder if that is part of what is going on with you?? Fear of this new, caring T. When we let ourselves be cared for, we are acknowledging in some small way that we are WORTH being cared for. Maybe desk-T's stand-offish approach was more in keeping with how you believe you should be treated? It's a big change to let yourself be gently taken care of.

Write here, journal, PM me...I think what you are experiencing is really important, and a really big step forward. And when you need to take a break from thinking about, take a break.

Let yourself be gentle with you

[BlueMoon6]

Originally Posted by farmergirl

Give it time. It will feel better in time. You're probably right, another session with her would be a mistake, but if you just want to let her know you've found another tdoc and it seems to be okay, why not just call and leave a message to that vein. Then you will at least know that she knows you are being taken care of.

Thanks Farmergirl- That could be an option. Maybe I will just have one last phone call. It would put my mind at ease. You know what I want to do? I want to book a double session and have a really good talk with her. I wish I could. Not a confrontational thing. Just to tell her how I feel- without that 40-minute-better-talk-fast pressure. I dont think I could handle it at all...

Thanks FG

[BlueMoon6]

Originally Posted by stumpy

does it surprise me that you miss her? nope.

i read someplace that kids (pets), people strive for postive attention. not getting that they seek bad attention. the absolute worst thing a parent, caregiver what ever can give is no attention...so yeah...desk t may not have been great...but hey she was yours.

she was familiar...her treatment of you was not nice and warm and cuddly but it beat no treatment and neglect. and it sounds like it touched on something familair..maybe like mom (forgive me if i'm reaching...got a cold and my brain is clouded). it's scary to go towards something new...you know what you have with something old...it may suck but at least you know what it is...and in that light it is safe.

and its okay to mourn the change...which is what you are doing. but hey i have read your posts since going to ftt and i would embrace her...she sounds wonderful...and i can hear the changes coming in your words..and the heraling starting already...you were so ready to move on...just by challenging desk t...inside you knew she wasn't right for you (dare i say anybody? oh did i type that out loud??? it's good she isn't my t..she'd be wearing that desk)
hell at timkes i miss my old t who abused me in ways i'll be in therapy for in years just to heal from....and she never even sat at her crummy ikea desk!
take some deep breaths...you feel the need to call then do so but relize that you will probably never get the kind of reaction you want from her (she's a little emotionally stunted maybe damn it slipped out again)
i think maybe i should quit while i'm ahead but yer getting my point i hope. you are doing great...
stumpy & the head of a thousand rowdy peeps

Oh, Stumpy, Stumpy, Stumpy......and those rowdy little peeps of yours....There were times I wanted to pick up that "desk" )it was more like a conference table the size of a roller rink) and hit her over the head with it. Once, we were talking about EDs and she asked me what were the reasons I should do this or that. I was silent, couldnt come up with any reasons to eat. I guess she got frustrated with me because we had been over this about 1000 times and said,"You'd better come up with some reasons before I jump over this desk and strangle you!" My thought was..."Oh, lady, Id like to see THAT! At least it would get her out from behind that thing."

Anyway, boy did I need that laugh. Its been a rough day. I guess she is familiar. And like mommy. And I keep trying to get love and warmth she wont give me. She wont mommy me. And I need a mommy. I am a mommy, but I need a place to be the child, for NOW, s**t, not forever. I needed her and she wouldnt do it. I cant cry enough. I guess its tears for mommy. What else can it be?
Ftt is very gentle and mommy-like. I am sort of a teeny bit getting attached. A teeny bit. I wonder what will make me attached? She is good, though. And she is leading me in the right direction, as opposed to desk-t who made me crazier.

[BlueMoon6]

Originally Posted by treehouse

Awwww, (((((((((((((((((((((Moon)))))))))))))))))))))

It makes so much sense that you would miss her. Whether or not she was the most healing T for you, you still had a relationship with her, and you had been seeing her for a long time. You made a BIG change. I think it is probably a healthy sign that you are moving on and letting yourself attach some to ftt...part of that is letting desk T go. There is always some mourning with letting go, I think. You are doing a big thing by letting yourself feel and acknowledge these feelings.

I think this is hitting the nail on the head. I am mouring letting her go- its as if I am letting go getting what I need from a mommy who cant give it to me. Why her? Who is she really to me? I didnt even like her in the beginning. But I am mouring in this painful way letting her go. Never seeing her again. It is very calming to read what you wrote- that I am acknowledging my feelings. I am not having a suicidal emergency. Just having feelings. Strong feelings, especially painful ones, make me feel like I cant do this and I dont want to live anymore (dont worry, Im not going to do anything like that, but I feel like I want it to be a way out of my feelings).

[quoteFor me, sometimes when I make a change to be healthier, there is part of me that longs to hold onto the old, unhealthy behavior (or person, or whatever). It is familiar, and being gentle and kind to myself is unfamiliar. Unfamiliar things can feel scary. I wonder if that is part of what is going on with you?? Fear of this new, caring T. When we let ourselves be cared for, we are acknowledging in some small way that we are WORTH being cared for. Maybe desk-T's stand-offish approach was more in keeping with how you believe you should be treated? It's a big change to let yourself be gently taken care of.[/quote]

Yes- Exactly. Dt's stand-offish approach is how I believe I should be treated. I am noticing something else. I was often obsessed with dt and how to get her to be nicer. In only a semi-conscious way. I dont have those obsessions with ftt b/c she is nice to me. I dont have this...I dont know what I can call it....a drive or compulsion...to be a certain way to deserve her attention during the session. With ftt I dont feel that at all. The focus is all on my issues and not trying to get love out of her. She is very caring. I dont waste energy on trying to get her to love me. Im glad I realized that. I wasted a lot of mental energy with dt.
I suppose its painful b/c that is how I was raised. To waste a lot of mental energy trying to get this or that from either parent. Trying to get what i needed.

I am so hurting myself with food this past week. I would like to get to a place where I could have these painful feelings without slipping into food problems to distract me and numb my feelings. I am going to have to bring this up along with everything else in my session this week. I have even thought of doing rehab again. I am havng some physical probs that I get when I do this with food. My daughter took a picture of my last night with her new camera. She showed the pic to me and I said,"Is that what I look like?" and she said, "Yes, mommy." I was shocked. I look sick. I have to put on weight and eat more. I felt so sad for doing this to myself. How could I do this to the person in that picture? Why am I so rough with myself? Id never do this to anyone else.

Write here, journal, PM me...I think what you are experiencing is really important, and a really big step forward. And when you need to take a break from thinking about, take a break.

Let yourself be gentle with you

Thank you, Tree. And thank you to everyone who responded to me. Its so hard to be in this place. I was posting something on PC while I was taking my break in Starbucks. Its usually a gentle place for me, but I began to cry, I was in public there with tears in my eyes. I was very glad there werent too many people there. I feel like I am losing it. I dont even know where the feelings are coming from. Everything triggers something painful and this sadness feels like it will go on forever.

geez woman...don't cry in a starbucks....even the napkins are expensive....go to a dunkin...its so much cheaper for paper products...or better yet a micky d's!

ah yes...they snuck out again....those little tiny peeps...ever so socially aware & cost conscious (oh please can we have the xl hot chocolate mocha capachino whipped cream thingie ..)

personally i had one of my meltdowns in the dog park surrounded by a few confused people and many concerned (yep those are the right selection of words) dogs. nothing like melting down when a friends dog is dying and your friends stand there looking at you like you've got 6 alien heads but they're dogs show you total compassion.

[rainbow8]

I relate to so many of your feelings, BlueMoon. I understand that you are mourning Dt for what she was to you, and what she wasn't. She was "Mommy" even if she wasn't the perfect Mommy. She helped you in some ways and you miss her.

I understand the dilemma of needing a long session to tell her how you feel vs a short phone call where you may not even speak to her. If it were me, I would need the session because otherwise I would be forever playing tapes in my mind about how a final session would go. I would want it to end right, but I'm not sure if you can do that with desk-t or not. It depends on whether she would get defensive, or if she would understand why you left her. If you could acknowledge the good parts of therapy with her and tell her you will miss her, it could be valuable. I would want to do that if I were ending therapy, even the therapy hadn't gone so well.

In fact, I left my first T very abruptly. It was unfinished. A couple of years later I went back to say "good-bye". That was helpful for me to tie up the loose ends in my therapy with her.

I was often obsessed with dt and how to get her to be nicer. In only a semi-conscious way. I dont have those obsessions with ftt b/c she is nice to me. I dont have this...I dont know what I can call it....a drive or compulsion...to be a certain way to deserve her attention during the session. With ftt I dont feel that at all. The focus is all on my issues and not trying to get love out of her. She is very caring. I dont waste energy on trying to get her to love me. Im glad I realized that. I wasted a lot of mental energy with dt.

Therapy should be all about you, and you shouldn't have to beg for your T's attention. It seems very strange to me that dt doesn't know that it is wrong to eat, open mail, do her nails, etc. while she is in session with someone. I wonder where she learned that from. I wonder if anyone ever said to her: "You know, dt, I feel devalued/rejected/like you don't care about me when you read your mail, eat or do your nails during our session." What do you think she would say to that? It's an "I" message, telling your feelings.Would you dare say that to her at a final session? It would be for her own good. I told my T how I felt when she said "my 11:30 is here" and "borderlines _____ instead of "people with BPD" and she accepted my criticisms.

In any case, ftt is giving you the attention you deserve. I relate a little bit to wondering if I wouldn't have obsessed so much if my T had shown me more love. She made it hard for me even though she did it out of caring for me. It's hard to know what's the right way to act when you're a T, especially dealing with BPD.

Are you talking to ftt about your feelings for dt? I had to do that for a long time after I quit my first T. I just couldn't let the first one go. It's been more than a few years now that I stopped sending her updates about my family, so I'm "over her" and don't really miss her, but I won't ever forget my therapy with her, and our relationship. I don't think she will either. She once said that once therapy is over, it's not like it never happened. It DID happen, the good parts and the bad parts, the connected parts and the disconnected parts. But it took a long time.

Be patient with yourself. You've gone through a lot, and it's natural that you are grieving, both for the loss of your former T, and for the loss of the Mommy you never got to have. It's all related. Therapy is hard work, but you're doing fine. You've got a lot of insight into your feelings.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by BlueMoon6

I would like to get to a place where I could have these painful feelings without slipping into food problems to distract me and numb my feelings.

Bingo............

[BlueMoon6]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I relate to so many of your feelings, BlueMoon. I understand that you are mourning Dt for what she was to you, and what she wasn't. She was "Mommy" even if she wasn't the perfect Mommy. She helped you in some ways and you miss her.

I miss her so much. She helped me in some ways. I am feeling better today. I still believe I will be back in to see her at some point. When I am clearer.

I understand the dilemma of needing a long session to tell her how you feel vs a short phone call where you may not even speak to her. If it were me, I would need the session because otherwise I would be forever playing tapes in my mind about how a final session would go. I would want it to end right, but I'm not sure if you can do that with desk-t or not. It depends on whether she would get defensive, or if she would understand why you left her. If you could acknowledge the good parts of therapy with her and tell her you will miss her, it could be valuable. I would want to do that if I were ending therapy, even the therapy hadn't gone so well.

I dont want to go in there crying, although I am sure I will. I can acknowledge the good parts. I dont know if she would get defensive. For sure, I dont think she would say much. She'd let me talk, probably disagree with most of what I have to say. But I could keep it to my feelings and *I* statements. I want her to know the impact her behavior had on me. I will be thinking about her forever if I dont go in.

In fact, I left my first T very abruptly. It was unfinished. A couple of years later I went back to say "good-bye". That was helpful for me to tie up the loose ends in my therapy with her.

Of course, Im sure it was. Im sure you needed that. I would imgaine that you kept thinking what the conversation would have been like if you didnt go in.
Another feeling of mine is that I cannot let go- I dont want my relationship with her to be over. I cant do it. I have a strong feeling that I need her. This is the major, major obstacle here. I dont want it to be over. I want to see ftt, but I cant say good-bye forever to dt. Sigh.....I cant.....

Therapy should be all about you, and you shouldn't have to beg for your T's attention.

She has no idea, I am sure, that her behavior had that kind of an effect on me. I never told her, but I know she doesnt do that with just me. I often felt like I had only half of her attention. And that I will be selfish to bring that up- why do I think that I deserve her undivided attention? How selfish is that? That is how I seriously feel.

It seems very strange to me that dt doesn't know that it is wrong to eat, open mail, do her nails, etc. while she is in session with someone. I wonder where she learned that from. I wonder if anyone ever said to her: "You know, dt, I feel devalued/rejected/like you don't care about me when you read your mail, eat or do your nails during our session." What do you think she would say to that? It's an "I" message, telling your feelings.Would you dare say that to her at a final session? It would be for her own good. I told my T how I felt when she said "my 11:30 is here" and "borderlines _____ instead of "people with BPD" and she accepted my criticisms.

You know, when we spoke about what had happened with my previous t yrs ago, she called him a lot of things. One being "unprofessional" and that he would have lost his license if he had one, but is it professional to open mail, take vitamins, eat your lunch (OK- I know some of have t's that eat thier lunch in session, but dt's eating is part of a bigger inattentiveness), look out the window, write grocery lists (whatever she is writing that doesnt have to do with me), and put on lipstick. I think it is. I dont understand what she could be thinking. If there is anything I would have a VERY difficult time saying to her it is what I just wrote. How can I say that? These are the things I need to say. I wanted her attention, and I think she will take that apart and thing/say it is my narcissitic needs (childish ones), my bpd and my need for her to mother me. When I really believe she is being just plain rude and dismissive.

In any case, ftt is giving you the attention you deserve. I relate a little bit to wondering if I wouldn't have obsessed so much if my T had shown me more love. She made it hard for me even though she did it out of caring for me. It's hard to know what's the right way to act when you're a T, especially dealing with BPD.

I agree completely. And I have wondered that so many times about you and your t. What would it have been like if she had been more physically warm and loving to you. Mothered you. Woud you REALLY have gone "bonkers"? For how long? I dont think forever. I think you might have gotten your fill. No matter how long it took. What do you think?

Are you talking to ftt about your feelings for dt? I had to do that for a long time after I quit my first T. I just couldn't let the first one go. It's been more than a few years now that I stopped sending her updates about my family, so I'm "over her" and don't really miss her, but I won't ever forget my therapy with her, and our relationship. I don't think she will either. She once said that once therapy is over, it's not like it never happened. It DID happen, the good parts and the bad parts, the connected parts and the disconnected parts. But it took a long time.

Im glad you did that with your last t. See? You had your fill and were able to "wean" yourself. Can I compare it to child-led weaning with nursing? My children all weaned themselves (except for my 2 1/2 yo b/c I had to go on lexipro). I allowed them to get their fill until THEY were ready to, not when *I* pushed it. It was a miraculous process to see. THEY knew when they got what they needed. And the same with your previous t, although it took a long time, it was YOUR process. And then you were healed of that relationship and feel calm about it.

I am talking to ftt about dt, but not in this last session. I have so much to talk about in my next session. It may all tie in. I could use 2x/wk for a little while....but then Id never go back to 1x/wk if she did give me the extra appointments/attention. Sigh....

Be patient with yourself. You've gone through a lot, and it's natural that you are grieving, both for the loss of your former T, and for the loss of the Mommy you never got to have. It's all related. Therapy is hard work, but you're doing fine. You've got a lot of insight into your feelings.

Thank you, Rainbow It is so hard. And it is hard to be patient b/c I have to have these difficult feelings while I am being patient. It is very related and that is what I will start with when I see t on monday.

I also like that she doesnt mind if I have my journal out during the session. Dt said I was being "self-absorbed" by doing that. oy!