Another tantrum

Our original "work" was play. It was how we worked things out. It's no wonder that creativity and play are important parts of us. I do everything from coloring to knitting, with a bunch in between. It is so relieving, relaxing, distracting, and I believe, opens up the mind like meditation or prayer can.

Thanks for this, Echoes. I never thought of it that way. I've never been allowed/allowed myself to "play"...after I started therapy, I started playing guitar hero with my boys to distract myself, I started learning how to play the "real" guitar, I started coloring, and knitting...there is a LOT more "play" in my life now. Ever since I was teeny tiny I felt like I had to WORK all the time to take care of everyone around me and to be PERFECT. I'm so glad that therapy has given me the freedom to play...and you're right, I do think it relaxes and opens up my mind.

Not to derail your thread, blue...but I do think play is really important, for younger parts but also for grown up Blue.

This is a very good thing to read. I dont "play" in a child-like way for myself. I do all kind of things with my little ones, craft projects, reading to them, snuggling, puzzles, lots of legos and playmobile people, dolls, dollhouse (Im trying to think of all the things we do) but I dont play myself...for my little girl inside of me.

I always feel like I have to work and make sure everyone is OK and I dont enjoy the play myself. If my kids are happy, then Im happy.

I think maybe this is a good opportunity to talk about the word "selfish". One of the main things I worked on in therapy was my struggle to do things for myself and my struggle to allow myself any good feelings from anything that I'd done for another. Or, for that matter, to allow any good feelings at all.

Parents affect children in many different ways. They may impact them with behaviors toward the child or the child may also be very affected by the way their mother approaches life and herself in general. My own mother, who I have always adored and held in the utmost of high regard, did everything for others...and next to nothing for herself. I saw her struggling on a daily basis to care for my severely autistic brother. I saw her pain and suffering as she dedicated her entire life to her family. I truly believe that my adult desire to give comes from my inner child's original desire to ease my mother's pain. I lived by her example and tried to pattern my way of living and loving after her. I believe there are a great deal of positives that came from this. I see myself as a caring and sensitive person and these are traits which I value a great deal. But, unfortunately, I also took away a feeling that taking care of my own needs was secondary to taking care of others' needs. I still have to fight pangs of guilt when I do something for just me. My inner voice wants to tell me that is wrong, but it isn't. Taking care of yourself and meeting your own needs is necessary and healthy. "Selfish" doesn't mean you are hurting others by helping yourself, it means you are caring for yourself so you can better care for others. It's about maintaining a healthy balance. All families must find ways to have balance, but sometimes when the weight is unevenly distributed it isn't beneficial for anyone. My mother became very ill in her 40s and died at age 58. She literally gave up her life for her family and it still breaks my heart.

Blue, I can't help wondering if maybe somewhere deep in your mind you feel it is your responsibility to repay your mother's debts to society by being a "Super Mom". This is just a theory and could be way off base, but I'm just throwing it out there as a thought. Showing your children that Mom's needs are important might in the long run teach them to take care of their own needs as well...and not feel guilty for doing so. This is healthy balance. It really is okay to let go and have your needs met. You deserve it. Everyone does. Everyone includes you, Blue. You are in no way responsible for fixing the errors of your mother's ways. Your being a mom is about you and your children. I hope that you will be gentle with yourself and go to the spa or something, lol.

Sorry if I hijacked the thread a bit there...

I also think that letting "the little you" out means putting down the adult you's protective walls. Let the little girl out. It's safe here and she is loved.

Thanks Brightheart It is interesting that you bring this up here. I think it is a struggle for all mothers, to one degree or another, where do I draw the line in terms of taking care of myself and taking care of small children? When my kids were little, all of them, it is WAS a 24/hr a day job. They are close in age. Now that my youngest is 2 1/2 and she is very attached to her siblings and can stay with them and be occupied, I can go out. Back then, with so many little children, I didnt do what I can do today. Now, I take care of myself in other ways that my children see. They see me eating healthy food, physically caring for myself, organizing and cleaning up the house, maintaining relationships with friends. I think that is a BIG one. I maintain and work on my connections to good friends- they see me socializing ALL the time. And they know, especially my teenagers, that my husband and I work on our relationship and we are affectionate to each other in their presence. That isnt a new issue for me, so I have been working on that. I dont feel that taking care of myself is selfish. I know selfish, I grew up with selfish. What has been a challenge has been trauma issues from childhood. And the feelings from that, from her.

I have to say no to my repaying my mother's debt to society. I never felt as if she has any debt to society. If anything, society was more imoportant to her than her family. She was very oriented that way. What this or that political movement needed, and she was there. I do as much as I do as a mother, a supermom, because I want to have the family I dreamed of, the family I wanted. Yes, in some ways she taught me what I DONT want to do, but the dynamics in my house growing up is what I want to do differently. I want to be different than her, but I dont have to try very hard because I AM very different than her, I dont even have to try to fix her errors. I know her errors are hers. It is the trauma to my younger parts that is painful.

Im sorry that you had to watch your mother's pain and suffering. Im sure she gave all she had to your brother. It is sort of the same thing, she didnt take care of her needs and you came away with the feeling that your needs are secondary. Its as if she died trying. She must have felt very guilty if she thought of herself when your brother needed so much. Do you think she (and you) might be different today if she had taken time for herself, or learned how to care for herself, possibly allowed someone else to do the caring for your brother now and then?

You wrote this.

"I always feel like I have to work and make sure everyone is OK and I dont enjoy the play myself."

I think I may have slipped into protective mode here with you. It's something that I have to watch myself with in all of my friendships. I would like for you to have the freedom to enjoy the play yourself.

I'm so glad to hear this. And relieved...

I think there is a good chance that she would still be alive today. I really believe that all of the diseases were at least in part caused by stress. She would always try to hide her emotional pain, but I was always watching and saw it very clearly. As for me, I kind of like the way I turned out. I've always been in here, but needed a little adjusting in my thinking and behavior to find my way out. And that's what therapy did for me. I just wish I'd done it twenty years ago.

I'm sorry I hijacked here, Blue. I was just worried.

Hi BH- I wanted to explain something about the not enjoying play thing I wrote. It looks like I wasnt clear and explained it in a misleading way. OK- Its not that I dont enjoy play as enjoyment, its that I dont play because I am so busy with what I have to do keeping everything under control and done with them in the house, that I dont have the time or energy for it. If I did, say if I had a live-in house staff that cooked, cleaned, did laundry, fed, bathed, discliplined, did homework, broke up arguments, chauffered to and from school and after school lessons, grocery shopped, clothing shopped, went to meetings for special services for my d, fund raised at school, paid personal and business bills, arrange Christmas vacation entertainment for my kids and entertain sleepover guests, all while carrying around my 2 yo, THEN Id be free to enjoy playing with them. I could make more time, let some things go and try not to worry about them, but no one is picking up the slack for me and its all waiting for me when Im done playing Its not that I dont enjoy play, its that I feel overwhelmed and dont let things go and just dont go and play.

Well, now, that said, Im sleeping in tomorrow and I can only hope everyone else does, too! I'll play in my sleep.....

You didnt hijack, BH, I hope you, too, can find a way to do things differently than your mom, especially that you see clearly the toll it takes on your body and can shorten your lifespan. Maybe with my mother, the waqy she was shortened her lifespan as well. I have always suspected that.

HI (((((((((((((Moon)))))))))))))))))

I SO hear you on not having enough time to play. That was probably the one blessing of early therapy being so horrible for me. I was thisclose to completely losing it, and I HAD to do something to distract myself...so I let things GO, and I played Guitar Hero. A LOT. For a few months. I still fed people, and did school with them, and made sure there was clean laundry...but I didn't worry about the house being picked up, and I let a lot of things go that I would normally be right on top of. And the world didn't end, and I ended up finding out that Guitar Hero was actually really fun and that playing was okay.

I do think I've found a more balanced place now...with work AND play. It's still hard for me to just let things go....like yesterday I wanted to knit SO badly, but we are leaving town today and I worked all day long, getting the house put back together after Christmas and getting ready to go. I finally managed to knit a bit at 8 last night...and when I sat down to do it, it was such a relief. I probably could have found a way to do it earlier - I'm SURE I could have - but it's still hard for me to give myself permission to just relax and let things go a bit.

I do try to think of the example I'm setting for my kids. I want them to grow up and know that they can have that balance between work and play. I want them to see and example of healthy self-care. I'm in a band with some friends, and I like that they can see me do something that is fun for me, that's not all about them, and for them to know it's okay. The only thing I saw my parents do for "fun" was drink.

I hope you can find a little play time today, Moon

I have a hard time letting things go. That is something I could work on. Dont you worry that it is all waiting for you when you are done playing? I have a hard time letting that go.

As I remember now, in family therapy with desk-t, we worked together on my kids doing a lot more in the house so I didnt feel so overwhelmed. And that has improved a lot. But I spend a lot of time reminding and telling them to do this or that. I havent been doing that enough lately...hmm.....I am going back today to allowing them to pick up their own stuff, load the dishwasher, etc. I sort of went back to doing it myself because it is easier and avoids all that conflict.

What I do for fun in the house? Hmmm.....not much except read, but I dont do that much because, uh, I dont have the time! When I have fun, it is leaving and going out. But they see me doing a lot of socializing here and when we are out with other families. What else can I do that is fun in the house? LOL! I really dont know. We do have Guitar Hero....Im sure Id suck at it.....but we have a lot of other games.....waaaay too many...Hey! We have wii fit and we used to see who could do the balance exercises better. Maybe I'll startthat again. Or some of the other wiii games with my kids.

Thanks for getting me started

I cannot remember where I read it..article, book, etc.. but child psychologist John Bradshaw had good ideas about children and their assigned tasks. He particularly showed how to take the reminding them out of it, because they get used to being reminded and so they rely on that instead of taking initiative. For example the task was assigned and a time to have it completed was also assigned. The consequence for not completing the task was assigned. If the trash is assigned to be taken out at 6pm and it is still sitting there at 6:05pm, then the parent takes the trash out and the child gets the assigned consequence. No reminding. Afterwards the child is told in a matter-of-fact tone that the consequence is theirs and why. This was very helpful to me on many levels. Maybe if you google him you will find more..?

Echoes- This is very similar to what we do, except I am always in the position of being the police sergent and doling out consequences. It becomes too much. We have a few things that we assign and get consequences if they dont do it, such as no eating in the family room. The biggest change is that I have been more consistent and stick to the consequence. Any kind of cursing (especially at each other) or hitting (this is my older girls) they lose their phone and/or computer for 1 day. A good consequence for not cleaning up their room is that they are grounded. And boy does this work!

I very much like the matter-of-fact tone without the reminding. This is all what we had been working on, specific things, in therapy over the summer with my kids. And believe me, it is MUCH easier said than done. But we have improved and over time they know I am serious and I follow through on consequences. It is all so not easy.

What I wanted to say is that I used to read a lot of John Bradshaw. He used to do seminars on public television about family dynamics and the roles we play in our families. I forget the name of the book, but it has something to do with the roles of children in alcoholic/dysfunctional families such as the hero, scapegoat, mascot, caretaker etc and how the roles play out as adults. I remember really relating to that stuff.

omg, did I say John Bradshaw??!! Oh, no... I meant John Rosemond. I'm so sorry.

Was that some kind of Freudian slip? I dont know John Rosemond, but he sounds GOOD! Do you know John Bradshaw? I guess you do!

I do know John Bradshaw also. I liked his books and tv show although I thought he was a bit narrowly focused.
John Rosemon I also like, although I am not religious and when I tried to find a link for you I see that he is... But he did or does have good parenting ideas and that one helped me.

Id look at the website even if he is religiously oriented. I sorta take what I need from those things and leave the rest.

I barely remember what John Bradshaw did on tv, but I remember a mobile with family roles or something on it. Did you think he was narrowly focused because he was focused on roles we play in our family and not the deeper dynamics that go on? I say this because it had been my experience that counselors with only addictions training did therapy this way. Good for gettting out of an addiction, but I felt I needed to go deeper. Do you know what I mean?