[MissCharlotte]

I have a question about trauma work. When I first began therapy T and I did some EMDR only a couple of times. I also did some body work-hitting a soft table with a padded bat. Both of these triggered me big time, and I was retraumatized. T said that just talk therapy was right for me. I understand that these methods work well for a lot of people and sometimes I wonder if I could try EMDR again, but I don't really want to. What I wonder about is when you guys say you were doing trauma work, then taking a break from trauma work. I mean isn't it all trauma work? It's just my perspective but it feels like it's all trauma work. Those sessions that are not weepy or triggery are building the foundation of the relationship that sustains us during the tough times I think. What do you guys think?

[jexa]

Well it depends on whether your T focuses a lot on the past or not, and it depends on the issues you bring to therapy. My T has a here-and-now behavioral approach for the most part, so we didn't start with examining the past. My T and I just started getting into trauma work (6 months after I started therapy), when before we were dealing with my values, dealing with social situations, exposure to different things that scare me, how to deal with my sisters when things get crazy, etc.

She's only working on the trauma with me because it's so hard to talk about -- and so many things are a DIRECT result of CSA -- so, here-and-now, I need to talk about the trauma so I can talk about sex at all (right now, I cannot even have a conversation about sex with somebody -- or buy tampons at the store, or condoms -- or say words that have anything to do with sex out loud). In her opinion, it would be useless and retraumatizing to me to talk about the past if it weren't so DIRECTLY affecting the present. And I agree with her. Why should I talk about what hurts if it won't help me to do that? But, it will help me, so I'm doing it.

At the clinic where I work, they never do trauma work at ALL. They deal with people with OCD and do exposure and response prevention, mostly, and they don't think talking about the past is any good unless you have PTSD. But I'm not sure I agree with that approach, necessarily. I think it's about what your client thinks will be helpful, too. So if my future clients think talking about the past will be helpful, when I'm a therapist, I will not question that, even though I plan to take a mostly-behavioral approach.

I think there is a balance in trauma work-it can't all be the heavy trauma processing stuff all the time- there needs to be just talking session too. They are both important in building trust and also building confidence that you can do this work and still be okay.

For those of us who have had multiple traumas, if we did just talk therapy, it would probably work, but it would take a really long time, usually.

Desensitization is very hard emotional work, no matter what form it takes. Talk therapy is a more milder version of that, the more you talk about it and think about it, it eventually loses it power. There are more concentrated ways too like EMDR.

You sound like you are wondering about EMDR again. Are you in a different place than you were when you first tried it? Maybe it was too hard then, but maybe you might be able to handle it better? It is very hard, but it can also be so freeing and healing too. For me I have trouble with every EMDR session of putting myself in that hot seat, but now since I know I can handle those emotions that come up, I trust myself more to know I can take the heat.
Don't know if that answers anything, but it is what I have experienced.

My experience is much like Jexa's. My t and I do discuss the past, but only in the context of what I need to know to help me deal with the here and now. If trauma work is re-traumatizing you, it isn't a good thing in my opinion. Yes, we have talk about the trauma I have been through, but he works diligently to be sure that talking about it doesn't create more problems than it solves.

[Melbadaze]

miss c, yup i'm with you....i don't understand how one can just stop...

[BlueMoon6]

I sort of have the same question, Miss. My t says I am doing trauma work and it bring up a lot of pain during the week sometimes. Sometimetimes it doesnt. When we do trauma work we are talking about the things that went on in my childhood with my mother (verbal and some physical abuse) and my father (some csa and inappropriate sexualizing of me). Its just talking. I have done the bataka (soft bat) work (not with ftt) but not emdr. I dont know what else would be considered trauma work.

I have the same exact experience with working on trauma with ftt. They are not weepy or triggery (mostly, there are moments I dissociate) and we are building a trusting and safe environment. I trust her with anything I could bring up and I feel safe there in her room (for some reason I dont like the word office, feels cold).

I have read you do yoga. I find yoga and connecting with my body and my breath in that way very grounding and helpful with traumatic memories. Especially with the verbally abuse language I experienced throughout my childhood.

Why do you feel you need to go back into trauma work? I think the issues you want to get back into would probably determine what course to take.

[Perna]

I think there are lots of kinds of work, not all related to a particular trauma unless that's what your whole therapy is about? I got mostly education and "practice" relating to other people (my therapist) because I didn't have a good relationship with my stepmother so I didn't learn to interact with myself or others. But not relating didn't cause me trauma, losing my mother at a very young age did and my stepmother sometimes being abusive, etc. and while we addressed those too, not all the time or all in the same way? Therapy ranged around in issue and time period and means of approach.

Hi (((((((((((miss))))))))))))))

For me, we sometimes take a REALLY CONSCIOUS "break" from talking about any trauma from the past. EVEN if something in daily life completely relates to some trauma and that would be the best way to make sense of it, we just don't go there, period. I keep going to therapy, and maintaining the connection, and working on day-to-day stuff, but if anything even remotely related to "trauma" comes up, T steers us away from it.

We have done this when I've been in a really bad, almost-hospitalized place, or when my bad coping skills start overtaking my good coping skills. When I get overwhelmed. Thankfully, that seems to happen less and less. We also just took a very conscious break over the holidays. We had been talking about something that I just could not bear to deal with over the holidays, so we chose to consciously set it aside until later. If I started to drift towards that topic in session, T would help move us onto a different topic.

Generally, talk of traumas comes and goes. I supposed when I have a very intense session dealing with the past, I call that "trauma work", although you are right, Miss C, in reality it's ALL connected...

I did have multiple traumas, and T doesn't do EMDR or anything like that. It's all talk therapy for me...but I can feel myself growing and changing and healing.

editing to add: I do have PTSD, so these are things that need to be dealt with, as they affect my day to day life in so many ways. I do LOVE sessions where we manage to do deep work WITHOUT getting into traumas, though. We had one of those today...those are my favorite.

(((((((((((((((((((miss))))))))))))))))))) It's good to "see" you

[deliquesce]

"trauma work" for me has only ever involved talking about it (minimally). sometimes i will talk about it if i'm going through a particularly bad spot of ptsd (flashbacks etc) but usually we focus on "here and now" stuff like uni work, relationships etc. i dont consider talk about uni (time management, motivation, combatting perfectionism & ocd-tendencies etc) as trauma work, even though many things (perfectionism) are quite possibly the result of my prior traumatic experiences.

sometimes even when i am experiencing flashbacks we won't actually talk about the content, but just how to cope with the negative emotions associated with it. a lot of research is coming out questioning the assumption that (for ppl with ptsd) trauma must be processed minutely to be resolved; a lot of people do better without ever going there - it comes down to the individual as to what is best.

i'm not a fan of EMDR. the professional politics behind its advocacy don't make me feel too great (i hate politics & power within the profession, though i know it's just a fact of life); and the premise on which it is based upon (eye movements are essential to treatment success) doesn't hold up under the weight of evidence. however, i know that many people find it useful and i think that's great they have found something that they believe in, can commit to and that works for them. at the same time, i just bring up my opinion (and i know there are some people who wish i wouldn't) because i get the feeling that in many boards like this that EMDR is touted as "the" way to recover from trauma, and that people who manage to do it are very strong individuals (whereas others who take "less intense" forms of exposure therapy are kind of "soft").

i like your perspective, ((((miss C)))), that it's ALL trauma work. even when i'm just talking about uni and stuff, pdoc points out that we're building our relationship too, and that's really important to me when it comes to even venturing near the trauma stuff.

Originally Posted by deliquesce

even when i'm just talking about uni and stuff, pdoc points out that we're building our relationship too, and that's really important to me when it comes to even venturing near the trauma stuff.

I SO agree with this. It took me a long time to build up enough safety with T to be able to go near the trauma stuff...and I needed a LONG time (months) to decompress after we had touched on it. Now that I feel connected to T, it's much easier to move in and out of it.

For *me*, safety in the relationship is the absolute KEY to being able to do ANYTHING else.

[chaotic13]

I don't know if my T and I have offically planned to do "trauma". I think we kind of deal with stuff as it presents itself.when I think back I really don't remember my T suggesting that we try a specific technique, with one exception-we did at her suggestion A session using the the edmr thing. I had a mixed opinion about it and we've never really done it again.

IDK Miss C, if your interested or have been thinking about attempting edmr or some other approach...I say listen to that voice and ask your T. Although my T and I have primarily done only talk therapy...I've done all kinds of interventions. For me the talk therapy was a very important part being able to do the other work I've done.

[MissCharlotte]

Hi all, thanks! What wonderful responses. I think through your thoughtful remarks I have figured out that EMDR didn't (and won't) work for me because I have complex ptsd. (However, I will keep looking for that giant bandaid that fixes my boo boo). There were many traumatic experiences over a long period of time; much neglect, physical abuse, csa, and sexualizing. As a teen I was the victim of a violent attempted rape by a stranger.

So for me, it is through the relationship with T (as many of you have mentioned) that I heal. With T I am learning how to have an intimate relationship. For the first time tonight I was able to call him and say I was angry at him for something he said in session. He called me back and apologized and said he didn't want me to carry that around all weekend. Talk about healing!

[BlueMoon6]

((((Miss))) Im sorry you had to endure all of that. How sad and then scary what you went through as a teen. Im sorry.

I cant say I know a real lot about emdr, but I have read about it and read the posts here that talk about people's experiences with it. I am also not inclined to do it. Im sure it is very healing and helps with trauma, I have a fear that what would come up might overwhelm me during the week.

When it comes to trauma, and I am not sure if this relates to the topic, I know there are things that caused me to behave and feel the way I do, and I have an intuitive sense about the ages when these things/feelings occurred but not clear enough memories. Very bried flashes of memories, or feeling memories. A flash of suddenly feeling safer alone watching the light come in through the blinds of a window and casting a shadows on the ceiling. But feeling uneasy at that time, too. Feeling not safe and not comfortable and wanting to get away. Is that a memory? I dont know. I think it relates to trauma, but I could not tell you why. It could even have been a pre-verbal moment. This is where I sense my healing needs to go, I havent got a clue as to how to go there or where I would be going. I dont think that kind of thing is for EMDR, is it? Isnt EMDR for memories or feelings we can talk about or understand? Or maybe I just dont know what I am talking about.

[chaotic13]

Ms C I like what you said about how your T relationship is helping you learn how to be in a more intimate relationship. I think my childhood experiences also distorted my perception of intimate relationships and made it difficult for me to engage in them. Now I feel like..IDK a whole new world has opened up to me. It is a really exciting time for me,but scary at the same time.
What I kind of like about my T relationship at the moment is it seems very stable. I can go out in my personal life, engage with others, and then come back to my T relationship and work through some of the wacky, childish, fearful junk that surfaces. Recently it seems like I step out of my comfort zone, interact in a new way with someone and then check in with my T just to get reassurance that what I'm doing is OK, normal, not likely to lead to some place I don't want to go.

IDK do you see yourself as using your talk therapy as a stable base from which you can leap from?

[sunrise]

MissC, I think EMDR can be used with complex PTSD, at least in some cases. It doesn't have to be just one traumatic event you do EMDR on, but you could do an EMDR series on a number of past situations. My T told me he sometimes asks people to make a list of their 20 most traumatizing memories and then he does a series of 20 sessions with them, starting with the most intense memory first. He said that they rarely make it through the list, because after the person does the first half a dozen, they get so much relief, they don't need to go all the way to the end. I know, of course, that this approach would not work for many people. Starting with the most traumatizing might be just too intense.

I did EMDR when I first began therapy. I think I did about 4 EMDR sessions on various things. We didn't do the eye movements, but used another method. One reason my T likes EMDR is because he says it is faster than other methods he has used (he has been treating trauma for decades). He likes to give people quick relief and he said talk therapy can take years and he likes to help relieve people's pain quickly. I personally can't say if there is anything to the idea of the alternate stimulation of the two sides of the brain, so deli, I hear you on this. But the EMDR sessions did help me get "unstuck", and my T had said I was stuck due to trauma. However, I was new to therapy, and maybe simple talk therapy would have been equally effective with me, and maybe it is the "talk" portions of the EMDR that helped me. I think the EMDR protocol helps give a structured "frame" to the process of dealing with trauma. First we do this, then we do this, then that, then we are done for the day. I think that structure can be reassuring and almost makes it easier to do the protocol without knowing the T that well, without complete trust. It seems more regimented--following the steps in a certain order. Whereas talk therapy is less structured. When I didn't know my T, how would I have been able to sit with him so early on and just talk for an hour about traumatic events? I wouldn't have been able to do that. But when he gave me this structured EMDR protocol, it seemed more doable to fit my memories into this defined frame he provided.

Since those early days, we have not done EMDR. He has mentioned it a couple of times, "we could do EMDR on that," but I have waved him off. I feel I don't need the structured protocol anymore. I know my T really well now and am better able to share all sorts of things with him. So when something traumatic arises that I want (ha) to deal with, we just talk about it. I always had a little bit of trouble with the "positive cognition" and the "negative cognition" parts of the EMDR protocol, so if we just do talk therapy, we can skip those parts. What I have noticed, though, is that after I did EMDR, I was completely exhausted and would have to go sleep immediately. When I just do talk therapy on trauma, I do not get that same degree of intense exhaustion afterwards. So something different is going on with EMDR....

[Melbadaze]

yes I have complex ptsd, endured abandoment at birth, narcisstic step parents, our home victimized in error for a yr, abuses by neighbourhood boys and 2 IRA bombs, oh and a house fire next door to where i lived when preg with my twins had squatters who fell asleep and candles they were using set the house alight and one jumped and died on landing And laid in the front garden for the whole day with his feet sticking out Right next to my front window...not sure i know what a normal existence feels like as trauma is so gReat now and everypart of my day to day life consists of trying to look at these things throu a narrower lenses...but there are triggers in most areas.

[MissCharlotte]

Originally Posted by Melbadaze

yes I have complex ptsd, endured abandoment at birth, narcisstic step parents, our home victimized in error for a yr, abuses by neighbourhood boys and 2 IRA bombs, oh and a house fire next door to where i lived when preg with my twins had squatters who fell asleep and candles they were using set the house alight and one jumped and died on landing And laid in the front garden for the whole day with his feet sticking out Right next to my front window...not sure i know what a normal existence feels like as trauma is so gReat now and everypart of my day to day life consists of trying to look at these things throu a narrower lenses...but there are triggers in most areas.

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Melba)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

I knew that we spoke common language! Many hugs.

At some point we have to just accept today, huh? I don't know what else to do.

[mixedup_emotions]

I find that many of my sessions are just dealing with here-and-now struggles....because I was going through one crisis after another....and occasionally, we'd dip into trauma stuff....although one could argue that my here-and-now stuff was trauma as well, just not past trauma.

One thing I noticed in my last session is that my T was able to take here-and-now situations and point out the similarities in my behavioral patterns from the past....my childhood, my marriage, how I deal with certain things in group....Wow.

It amazes me how so much of my "TODAY" is impacted by the "YESTERDAYS", if you know what I mean.

I sometimes wonder when we will be going into trauma work...but I almost never bring it up because I'm too fearful. Of course, my T has mentioned to me more than once that fear has been a primary motivator in my life - so I shouldn't be surprised.

I also have no idea what trauma work would entail in gestalt therapy. I know the "empty chair" technique - which I DON'T want to do - just feels too intimidating and embarrassing to me....I don't know of any others in gestalt, honestly.

Even with my T, who I really admire and feel is a great T, I still have trouble feeling close, being comfortable, letting my guard down, etc. But that's me. I have trouble doing that, ever. I've been with him for almost a year and have no idea how long it takes or what needs to happen to get that closeness to where I feel as though I can tell him anything. I wonder if that'll ever happen for me.

Sorry for rambling on during your post.....

[zooropa]

I agree that it's all trauma work on some level. I think for me and my T, we will refer to "doing trauma work" as the sessions where we actually talk (or attempt to...) about specific trauma. Those are the trauma sessions, i guess. I think what I'm doing is prolonged exposure? Some sort of exposure, anyway.

I think my T knows EMDR but has never mentioned it to me and for some reason it doesn't sound like something I'd want to do. We're just working on me being able to talk about one specific trauma, although I have multiple traumas and god knows if we'll ever even touch on it all.

We're sort of taking a break from actually talking about the trauma, for the past 2 weeks, but that hasn't helped reduce my flashbacks or other ptsd symptoms. I really think I just need to process this in order to get any relief at all. So on Monday at my next session I'm actually hoping we will start trauma work again, although I don't know what my T has planned or what she's thinking. I guess I'll find out!