I had an awful session today. I think my T and I are at an impasse because of something I know he said about a month ago (journaled about it the day of), and he has no recall of it, nor does he think he ever would say something like it. Since it is important, I am not sure where to go from here. He said I might have a different perception of what he might have said, blah blah blah. Except that I have an EXCELLENT memory esp. for important things, and this is very important.

I am bringing in my journal entry with the direct quote of what he said, but I think he is going to say something like he said today, how there is no point in trying to recreate something he doesn't remember. This has happened only a few other times about less important things, and he is a very good T. But for the first time ever I just wanted to leave mid-session and not come back. How has anyone else dealt with this? I know I need to talk to him more, but I am still working on trusting him anyway, and now I trust him pretty much not at all.

[sw628]

Oh My! Tractionbeam0610 i totally empathize with your situation as this has happened to me this week too! T said something in session that didn't rub me the right way. When i asked if we could talk about it, she had NO recollection of ever saying it and basically i felt like a liar even though i wasn't. I hope you are able to settle this matter with your t as it seems like the relationship is extremely important to you. Hugs and know that you are supported here

[Izzyparker]

Yes, this type of situation has happened to me before. After a few frustrating sessions, we agreed to disagree. But I wanted her to apologize. Of course, she didn't feel a need to apologize for something she claims she never said. I gave her this analogy: imagine a mother watching their child ride a bicycle up and down the sidewalk. The child hits a rock, stumbles and falls and begins crying. Would the mother say, "I can't say I'm sorry since I wasn't the rock ... I wasn't the thing that directly caused you pain?" No, a mom would instantly hug their child while saying "I'm sorry you got hurt." My therapist thought for a second and revealed, "Yes, I understand. I'm sorry our misunderstanding is causing you so much pain. And I will try to remember these nuances more carefully in the future and I hope you bring up in the session if I said something that hurt your feelings."

So we did move pass the incident. The relationship is more important in the long run.

Originally Posted by Izzyparker

Yes, this type of situation has happened to me before. After a few frustrating sessions, we agreed to disagree. But I wanted her to apologize. Of course, she didn't feel a need to apologize for something she claims she never said. I gave her this analogy: imagine a mother watching their child ride a bicycle up and down the sidewalk. The child hits a rock, stumbles and falls and begins crying. Would the mother say, "I can't say I'm sorry since I wasn't the rock ... I wasn't the thing that directly caused you pain?" No, a mom would instantly hug their child while saying "I'm sorry you got hurt." My therapist thought for a second and revealed, "Yes, I understand. I'm sorry our misunderstanding is causing you so much pain. And I will try to remember these nuances more carefully in the future and I hope you bring up in the session if I said something that hurt your feelings." So we did move pass the incident. The relationship is more important in the long run.

That seems like a very good way to handle a difficult situation Izzyparker

Maybe you could try something similar, traction?

*Willow*

Izzy,

I think you handled that situation so well, Izzy. I am glad you were able to move on once your T apologized to you, and I agree the relationship is more important than one incident.

WeepingWillow,

I am not sure if I can do the same thing, because I don't feel like I need an apology from him. This happened one other time and once I was able to provide his exact words in the exact context of the situation, some of it came back to him...so I am still hoping for that. But, I guess if he still doesn't remember...than he just doesn't remember. I have a real problem when someone questions my reality, and there is still the trust issue I have with him. So, I don't know how this is going to go. I guess I will know more after I see him on Thursday.

[BlueMoon6]

Traction- That has happened to me with the therapisat I used to see. It was SO triggering for me b/c I grew up in an invalidating environment where my perceptions were quesitoned and dismissed and I learned how to dismiss my own perceptions of things. So, when I KNOW what was said and the other person (especially a T!) says it didnt happen, I feel very frustrated, angry and underneath it all even frightened. That my perceptions are being questioned once again. I find it to be a scary and very triggery situation no matter who it comes up with (and when that happens with my husband all hell breaks loose).

Originally Posted by tractionbeam0610

WeepingWillow,

I am not sure if I can do the same thing, because I don't feel like I need an apology from him. This happened one other time and once I was able to provide his exact words in the exact context of the situation, some of it came back to him...so I am still hoping for that. But, I guess if he still doesn't remember...than he just doesn't remember. I have a real problem when someone questions my reality, and there is still the trust issue I have with him. So, I don't know how this is going to go. I guess I will know more after I see him on Thursday.

I appreciate how difficult it is when someone questions your reality. If you don't want T to apologise for the crossed wires, along the lines of 'If you say X happened and you felt Y about it, then I'm sorry you felt that way etc', what do you want T to do/say? You don't have to answer, but I often find that I'm never satisfied with another's response, until I know EXACTLY what it is that I want from them. Maybe I'm just missing what you have said (my brain is kinda fuzzy today) but I'm not clear on what you would like T to do.

I hope your appt goes well on Thurs I think you will really be able to move forward with T if you can both resolve this.

*Willow*

[sunrise]

tractionbeam, I have had that happen to me and been very sure that T said something and when I tried to discuss it, he said he had not. I think what is most important is that at this moment, in the present, he does not believe it or say it again. In the present moment he is not saying what I didn't like hearing before when he said it (if he did). So it seems this more recent experience is what matters. Even if he did say it in the past, if he isn't saying it now or doesn't believe it now, then that is good, right? I need to take him where he is at today. There seems no point in my arguing that he said something in the past that he isn't saying now. Would my desire be to prove to him I'm right and he's wrong? Where would that get me? If I "won" that victory, would that be helpful to me? For myself, I can see quite quickly that it wouldn't help me at all and that it is better to truly understand what my T thinks and believes TODAY rather than what he may or may not have said in the past, which I may have incorrected perceived or not. This is just my attitude and may not work for you. My attitude is colored by the experience of growing up with a mother who was obsessed with always having to be right, and got horribly upset if others doubted her words and went to great lengths to prove to others that she was right. She always told people how she had an excellent memory so she could not be wrong. Yuck. I do not want to be like my mother! All my mother's insistence on being right about everything did not make her a happy person or help her relationships. If my T says he didn't say or mean what I thought he did, it is good enough for me. Usually what I am recalling is something he said that I didn't like or found hurtful, so it is good to know he actually didn't really mean it. I certainly don't want to insist he said bad things when he doesn't feel that way!

I like what izzy said about the relationship being more important.

Originally Posted by tractionbeam0610

I am bringing in my journal entry with the direct quote of what he said

Why?

[looking4polaris]

This is frustrating. It's even frustrating to read because I can't figure out what you're looking for from your T in order to proceed. It's like I can see the roadblock right there. I can understand how it woud be very aggravating to be remembering something that was said and have the other person not recollect that...been there.

I'm not sure what you hope to get from bringing in your journal entry or pressing the issue that you are right in your memory and T is wrong. He clearly has no memory of this. Are you continuing with it because you hope that he will remember? Or that he will say you are right even if he doesn't remember? Is it just about you being right? You (or someone) mentioned questioning your reality, but it sure reads like questioning your rightness.

Maybe you are right and it's an impass, but maybe it's a really good opportunity to work on something big. Especially if people questioning your reality is a problem for you. Sounds like something that could use work...learning to deal with in whatever way so you don't have to walk out in the middle on whoever may question your reality in the future.

Sorry this is so frustrating for you. Hope you are able to get what you need from T.

Sunrise,

Actually, what my T had said was not bad at all. And I brought in my journal entry because I was therefore able to provide T with a better context of the actual event and specifically what I recalled him saying, as well as what I had said during the conversation.

Once we discussed the details of that, he was able to say that it did sound like something he might say, and he understood that I was not so upset that he forgot (he is human, and it happens), but more upset because I felt like my reality was being questioned, and he got that. And we also discussed what I thought he said, and why he does think it applies today (and most likely will every day), so I even learned more about it. Happy ending!

Looking4polaris,

Thank you. I told him that I wanted to walk out last session, and he said he knew that he had lost me...but we were able to keep it together til the end, even then.

[kitten16]

Traction, how did I miss this thread? Anyway, I totally feel ya! (Great responses from others on here too...)

This happens to me constantly with my T. I think he's a frickin' liar. Whereas your T is just forgetful, maybe, and/or a victim of his habit of letting things slip out and then feeling bad about it, so he has to deny them in order to live with himself. So why not just say that? But Ts rarely explain or apologize. Never complain, never explain -- I saw that on a pillow once.

Therapy is NOT a relationship of equality, I've learned. They can get away with that crap and nobody's going to call them on it, except us. And we're pretty much powerless. We can complain, argue, cry, throw their fake-exotic statuettes out the window, and we can always leave. But they can stonewall us until the cows come home.

I think Ts are not above trying to maintain a sort of invincible aura.

My T also rarely admits things he has said that have troubled me. It's as if admitting he made a mistake would damage him irreparably in my eyes, and he has a need to cling to this image of infallibility.

On the one hand he's constantly telling me, "You think I'm perfect, but I'm not perfect." And yet he attempts to maintain an aura of cobbled-together integrity by denying stuff when I call him on it ALL THE FRICKIN' TIME. Infuriating!

I've asked him if I could tape our sessions, and he doesn't want me to. I'm still not sure why he won't. It would be so valuable for me. Unethical to do it secretly, but I have a little hand-held recorder (rubs palms gleefully)...

[granite1]

im so sorry i guess for me it wouldnt be what was said i can forgive but it would be the fact that T didnt remember what he said in the sesson that would bother me and bring up questions