[deliquesce]

so i'm back on the therapy/medication merry-go-round.
and i'm really, really struggling.

i'm fortunate in that i'm not at uni this semester. i only work 1 day a week, so i have a lot of down time in between having to put on my "outside" face.

i'm just coming to wonder whether i'm ever going to be truly happy. or not even happy, just not depressed.

i'm seeing austin-t, and i'm seeing pdoc, and they both seem helpless and hopeless to make me better. actually - they help me feel better - but it's the barrier to "good, ok, fine" which we can't seem to reach.

austin-t encourages me to just try to do as much as i can each day. last week my achievement was in cooking a meal and brushing my hair. this week i went to work after a month's leave. and it does help to stop judging myself and just do what i can, but certainly there is the awareness that i'm meant to be able to do more than this in life.

tears of frustration that i really do seem to be handicapped in what i can achieve (right now). and that pdoc and austin-t can't remove it, only make what i've got more comfortable. it's just the hardest thing to work within.

i dont know what i want from this thread. just venting, i guess. and struggling to accept that what i thought was possible (being "well" one day) isn't actually a possibility, no matter how hard i try, or how much quality help i receive. it sucks .

[jexa]

((((deli)))) It's hard. I don't know what to say. Depression sucks. But I do hear you saying, this isn't ever going to get better -- and that's not true deli -- you may very well be on the wrong med combo right now -- for so long your meds were working out just fine but now they're all wonky, right? It may just take a bit of time to get you balanced on the right med.

[deliquesce]

thanks, jex. the holy grail of med balance is a bit of a myth, at least for me. i've been with pdoc for 5 1/2yrs, and i'm currently on med #14. the last one was probably the best, but i was never reliably stable on it - did manage to drop out of uni while on them, afterall.

i can take a step back from this **** feeling and realise that this particular bout of depression isn't going to last forever... but i think i'm just coming to terms with that fact that i'm never going to be rid of depression for good. and that when i'm in a bout of it, there's really not much pdoc or austin-t can do to help me.

it's ok. i'm not really asking anyone to tell me otherwise. just struggling to accept that the "one day i'll be well" myth is what it is. when i first saw pdoc all those years ago i never would have dreamed that i'd still be seeing him half a decade on. and it's starting to sink in as to why. not cool, but not much to be done about it either .

[googley]

(((((((((((Deli))))))))))



I'm so sorry. That is such a hard thing to come to terms with. Can you talk to Austin-T or Pdoc about it?

[sugahorse1]

I'm sorry you feel this way - if it's any consolation, I felt the same way a few days ago, and I still ponder it. I was actually going to e-mail my T this AM and ask her about this same topic

[sittingatwatersedge]

Dear Deli.

When I get down like this T reminds me that it took many, many years of events to put me where I was when I started therapy; then she reminds me of some things that were true of me then, which aren't now; they may not sound like much to someone else, if I were to list them, but I have to admit she's right. Then she will say, it takes a while to undo all that, try to be patient.

And I had to realize that it's not one for one - one year of abuse for one year of healing necessarily; could be shorter, could be longer, and I will never know which is which tilll it happens (or takes time happening). In the mean time I give thanks that I DO have quality help, and I try to work with the process and not hinder it; that's all anyone can do.

BTW..... I don't know if this will help you... but after a while, "half a decade" can go by in the blink of an eye; it isn't really all that long.

[Fartraveler]

Hi Deli,

I am sorry that you're struggling right now.

I know how that is.

Deli, it does tend to get better.

I know I don't respond much, but I do follow your posts, and my sense (I may be completely wrong, and if so, I apologize) I sense that you may be mourning many losses right now. Maybe getting your own apartment was a really big thing that you're still trying to come to terms with?

What I'm saying is, that your current struggles may not come out of some inherent thing, but may be a response to a specific situation, a specific issue.

You know that as a smart, articulate, attractive person (which we all know you are), your prognosis is very good.

Deli, don't give up. Yes, keep slogging away. It will get better.

((((Deli))))

Take care,
-Far

[jexa]

deli, maybe this place of acceptance is a good thing? For me, I have awful tics (head-jerking, blurting out certain words, etc) sometimes when I am very anxious. My ability to control them seems to come and go. Sometimes they are extremely embarrassing. But the less anxious I am about them, the less worried I am about whether they will go away, the better they are! But I can't TRY so hard to make them better, or they will come back with a vengeance!! Maybe it is similar with depression? Anxiety is my biggest problem, but when I get depressed, it's somewhat similar -- if I am not willing to feel depressed, I will stay depressed even longer because I get depressed about being depressed about being depressed.. and so on.

Here's a pretty awesome little Khalil Gibran quote that I find helpful when facing pain.. maybe you will like it.

Your pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding.
Even as the stone of the fruit must break, that its heart may stand in the sun, so must you know pain.
And could you keep your heart in wonder at the daily miracles of your life, your pain would not seem less wondrous than your joy;
And you would accept the seasons of your heart, even as you have always accepted the seasons that pass over your fields.
And you would watch with serenity through the winters of your grief.

[sunrise]

Deli, I just want to offer some hugs

[zooropa]

[WePow]

((((((((((((Deli))))))))))) Don't give up on YOU.

Deli I suffer from depression and how you described it is exactly how it is for me, been struggling with it for over twenty years, i hate the big black hole, as i call it..
i just want you to know you are not alone. Please know i am sending safe hugs..
tv and target help me sometimes to just forget... i can get lost in there

[ECHOES]

It is so hard when right now isn't feeling good and it seems as if it will never go away. I'm so sorry you are struggling so right now. Try to spend time thinking about times when you felt better, knowing those feelings will be back.

[sugahorse1]

Hoping you are feeling better - i know the crippling feeling of depression, but it does pass.
And I think we need to pursue with both meds and T - there has to be a solution out there!

[BlackCanary]

Hey Deli - what other healthy things help you feel at least "pretty good", beyond therapy and psychiatry?
Exercise is one I can personally recommend, though I don't really like it. It does release endorphins, always good.
You may have a condition that will last a lifetime (and so many do!). But, things do change as we mature and grow, and the ability to enjoy life can change as well.
Hope you feeling improved soonest

[deliquesce]

lovelies,
thank you all so much for your replies.
ive had a big few days (pdoc & austin-t) and want to reply but thinking is just making me exhausted.
maybe tomorrow, after a good night's rest .
i really have taken what a lot of you have said to heart, though. it's helped immensely.

[deliquesce]

ok, proper reply :

Originally Posted by googley

I'm so sorry. That is such a hard thing to come to terms with. Can you talk to Austin-T or Pdoc about it?

yes, i think i need to, one day. we've all discussed that this depression thing is just going to be there in the future, but i guess i've never really confronted the reality of it & mourned my "this is how my life will proceed" dream being shattered. i guess identifying it is the first step, though . i can talk to austin-t about it the next time it gets me down.

Originally Posted by sugahorse

I'm sorry you feel this way - if it's any consolation, I felt the same way a few days ago, and I still ponder it. I was actually going to e-mail my T this AM and ask her about this same topic

did you end up emailing, suga? i'm curious to know your thoughts, and your Ts, if you're willing to share .

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

When I get down like this T reminds me that it took many, many years of events to put me where I was when I started therapy; then she reminds me of some things that were true of me then, which aren't now; they may not sound like much to someone else, if I were to list them, but I have to admit she's right. Then she will say, it takes a while to undo all that, try to be patient.

thanks, SAWE. the problem is that pretty much every professional i've seen has believed that there is more to my depression than past trauma i.e., there's a genuine chemical imbalance going on, beyond what is explicable in terms of cognition/past learning. so while i can still make great progress in overcoming the ptsd, the depression is still going to be a loose cannon even once all the ptsd stuff is fixed. it's so frustrating for me, truly - i work so hard to get out of a depression caused by past trauma, only to be thrown into one caused by my brain just being fried.

the trauma stuff feels good because i know i can control it. the weird depression makes me feel even more hopeless because i can't predict it, or avoid it, or manage it, or do anything really beyond just sitting it through.

Originally Posted by Fartraveler

What I'm saying is, that your current struggles may not come out of some inherent thing, but may be a response to a specific situation, a specific issue.

hey, far . it's been a long time & i've missed you . i understand what you are saying, and there is probably some truth in it also. everyone thinks it is some inherent thing, but probably it will be easier to cope with if i can work away at the specific issues i do have. i think they compound each other, make it harder to get through the endogenous depressions. i need to remind myself of this, and keep working away at what i can.

Originally Posted by jexa

deli, maybe this place of acceptance is a good thing?

thanks jex for taking the time to type out that quote for me!!! i've got khalil on my bookshelf waiting to be read. i think acceptance is probably a good thing for me - you're right, i'm just getting depressed about being depressed otherwise.

sunny & zooey - you both know me well and know that hugs are always always always gratefully received. thank you, lovelies.

Originally Posted by WePow

((((((((((((Deli))))))))))) Don't give up on YOU.

thank you wepow. i need to be reminded of this, because sometimes i forget and realise i have resigned myself somehow. i'll keep trying.

Originally Posted by jbmomg

Deli I suffer from depression and how you described it is exactly how it is for me, been struggling with it for over twenty years, i hate the big black hole, as i call it..
i just want you to know you are not alone. Please know i am sending safe hugs..
tv and target help me sometimes to just forget... i can get lost in there

jb, i'm sorry you understand where i'm coming from, but it helps me to know that you relate. i play mindless computer games to help me while away the hours. we have target here in australia too but i get the impression it's pretty minor to what it is over in the states?

Originally Posted by BlackCanary

Hey Deli - what other healthy things help you feel at least "pretty good", beyond therapy and psychiatry?
Exercise is one I can personally recommend, though I don't really like it. It does release endorphins, always good.
You may have a condition that will last a lifetime (and so many do!). But, things do change as we mature and grow, and the ability to enjoy life can change as well.
Hope you feeling improved soonest

this is so helpful, blackcanary. i go running a lot when i get depressed - helps me burn off the energy that i can't do anything else with, prevents me from becoming restless. it's SO HELPFUL to look at this in terms of a chronic condition - gives me a framework to organise my thinking, and now i can start problem solving . i'm going to trust you on what you said about our ability to enjoy life changing as we mature and grow. it's a really important thought for me to hold on to. thank you.

[googley]

More hugs for you.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by deliquesce

pretty much every professional i've seen has believed that there is more to my depression than past trauma i.e., there's a genuine chemical imbalance going on, beyond what is explicable in terms of cognition/past learning.

But trauma causes "chemical imbalance" -- along with that bugbear, our inherent constitutional differences, which influence how we react. Anyway, that's what I think.

[deliquesce]

good point pach, i agree.
i guess what the mental health ppl have been telling me is that even once my trauma is resolved, that they still think i'll get the inexplicable depressions - that this isn't something therapy can resolve, and that psychiatry is ill-equipped to eradicate.

fwiw, though - saw pdoc on thursday and he agreed the new mediciine is no good. so i'm back on parnate, with it's dietary restrictions. i was trying to mope about it to pdoc but he told me his friend just got diagnosed with metastatic cancer and that i should be grateful for what i can eat. those "be grateful for what you have" comments rarely work on me, but it certainly pulled me up this time.

saw austin-t on friday. we aren't looking at the depression because there isnt anything we can do about it. we did a lot of work on triggers, though, and that's making me happy. anxious, but happy, because one day i'll be able to be free of them. it's weird that ive never really spoken to anyone before about this stuff. so i had a good session because i got to learn new things to try out the next time i get triggered - how to keep myself grounded, how to talk to myself, not to close my eyes, to focus on my breathing and relaxing my body. austin-t wants to start doing graded exposures, and i'm not so sure, but it'll be interesting to see what we do next time i see him.

[googley]

Deli-

Graded exposures are considered the best way to deal with triggers. I hope you can do this with austin-T.

[imapatient]

Deli, there are no knowable answers. There are too many variables involved and understandings are not advanced enough yet to simultaneously solve the equations. No one you ask can give you a solid answer, it's all specualtion.

I've been on 50 meds or so now. You have many to try.

After years being considered depressed and bi-polar II, my T's from the past 20 months (NYC mainly began the process) conlcuded that I don't suffer organic depression and that I'm not bi-polar II, hence I'd been misdiagnosed and mistreated for years. They think massive anxiety is my main problem. I get swings +/- from it, and my "depression" follows failures I suffer from being blocked from performign wll due to the anxiety. In a nutshell.

You won't find out til down the road about the "inherent problems" vs. problems that can be "removed."

You have very serious issues from your past that are hindering you; things that can take a long time and delay your development. Like mine: started therapy at 20, didn't get my BA til 30, didn't have first real girlfriend until 29. Went to grad school at 32. I was miserable in concrete terms due to then-present suffering (lack of career, relationships, etc) AND the past issues haunting me. Got past most of those--sort of not married or in long realionship right now). Concrete things like degree and relationships can be eliminated as issue makign you happier in some concrete ways, or less suffering, which is the same thing. Socially things can improve for you greatly. A lot of good thigns can happen for you.

Maybe all you do eventually is manage the depression (and it might lessen after you clear some trauma effects away), but many people do it sucessfully. By my count you have 36 meds to try still. Jury is still out.

It's not science, which you know. Maybe Kahil will be good to read.

apologies for typos, injured hand.

[Fartraveler]

Deli,

I've also been wondering a lot about how much emotional issues are hardwired in, and how much is situational, and, to the extent that things are hardwired, can that be modified?

I think there's a lot of good research out there that suggests that neural stuff can be modified, so that's encouraging. (And aren't even the SSRI's shown to increase amygdala size?) (As does talk therapy.)

Anyway, I'm looking at two "rewiring" options. First, mindfulness meditation, which lowers baseline anxiety levels (I think, but can't cite a source.) Second, being around emotionally healthy, happy people, in the hope that I can pick up their behavior and emotional habits.

I have no idea how this will work, but thanks for this thread Deli, because this stuff is really important.

-Far

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by Fartraveler

First, mindfulness meditation, which lowers baseline anxiety levels (I think, but can't cite a source.)

You can cite me! I know from experience that it works -- eventually! Takes a fair amount of work to get to that stage, though.