[lovelygirl]

Hi everyone,

I am really having a hard time with the T session I had yesterday. I started seeing this T about two months ago, and so far he's been quite good--very professional, clear, supportive, good at encouraging me toward my goals or to look at situations in new ways. But the boundaries are (at least for me) SO intense. His demeanor...how do I describe it? I wouldn't say he's cold, but he's...a bit formal. Reserved. It feels a bit cool to me. And I am a very warm, friendly, gregarious person by nature, and have always been with Ts who had real warmth about them, so that's feeling hard.

Plus the other policies: no calls between sessions except regarding appointments, no beverages in session, no self-disclosure on his part, definitely no touch (it actually feels like he backs away from me at the door, which makes me feel like a leper). All this, plus this kind of low-grade coolness throughout the session, is making the environment feel really impoverished to me. Like a desert. (I can see tumbleweeds rolling through the office.)

Part of this is that, even though my family was warm generally when I was growing up, there was very little actual empathy--no one really talked with me about how I felt until I was 13. I didn't even know how to describe feelings. So while he definitely gives empathic reflections to things I say, the overall environment is feeling increasingly painful.

I'm trying to sort out how much of this is just the sense of deprivation most of us probably feel because therapy inherently has limits, and how much is my genuinely needing an element of warmth and expressiveness from him that I'm not getting? And can I get over needing that if I do feel like I could do some good work with him (which I do)?

Sigh...I don't even know if I'm making sense. I'm sure what I need to do is talk about this with him, which I will do next week. I guess I just needed to vent a little. Thanks for listening/reading.

[elliemay]

Of course you are making sense! What you describe is very real.

Perhaps I can offer some insight. They way you describe your therapist sounds very similar, believe it or not, to mine - although he will allow emergency phone calls.

At first, the boundaries were very very strict. I realize now it was because he had to develop (1) a trust in me too and (2) what I was comfortable with or not. Over time they have relaxed somewhat. We have hugged twice and shake hands every session.

I think perhaps he has left his chair to sit with me on the couch a grand total of once and that was to look at a picture. He never tells me anything about himself. I've worked with him for several years.

I don't know why you are in therapy, but for me feeling safe was essential. The fact that he DID maintain such strict boundaries was very comforting to me. It meant that I had little fear from him. He was disciplined and professional. Feelings could fly around that room, yet be completely contained in the therapeutic space.

I think this pain you feel may be stemming from what I call "face planting in the therapeutic boundary". I have done that many times. I wanted more from my therapist than what is actually there.

It really really really helped me to talk about it with him. I realized, over time, that he is actually more there with me than I had ever thought a person could be.

[lovelygirl]

Originally Posted by elliemay

Of course you are making sense! What you describe is very real.

Perhaps I can offer some insight. They way you describe your therapist sounds very similar, believe it or not, to mine - although he will allow emergency phone calls.

At first, the boundaries were very very strict. I realize now it was because he had to develop (1) a trust in me too and (2) what I was comfortable with or not. Over time they have relaxed somewhat. We have hugged twice and shake hands every session.

I think perhaps he has left his chair to sit with me on the couch a grand total of once and that was to look at a picture. He never tells me anything about himself. I've worked with him for several years.

I don't know why you are in therapy, but for me feeling safe was essential. The fact that he DID maintain such strict boundaries was very comforting to me. It meant that I had little fear from him. He was disciplined and professional. Feelings could fly around that room, yet be completely contained in the therapeutic space.

I think this pain you feel may be stemming from what I call "face planting in the therapeutic boundary". I have done that many times. I wanted more from my therapist than what is actually there.

It really really really helped me to talk about it with him. I realized, over time, that he is actually more there with me than I had ever thought a person could be.

Thank you, elliemay! This is so helpful. If you don't mind my asking, how did you feel when you first started seeing him, when the boundaries were very strict and you didn't know him well enough to know, as you do now, how present he really is for you? What was that like for you, and how did you move through it? I feel like I owe it to myself to give this a chance, and I do suspect it's bumping up against early feelings of emotional deprivation and not being liked. But it would be great to hear more from someone who's been there and gotten through it.

Thanks again so much.

[Sunshine8]

i totally agree with elliemay. if you are ok with the no calls rule and want to continue with this therapist, i would clarify where he expects you to get your support if a crisis were to arise (before a crisis ever occurs)

it sounds like you have found a very professional therapist (except for the phone call rule) and may find yourself healing / recovering faster because of the professionalism.

Originally Posted by elliemay

At first, the boundaries were very very strict. I realize now it was because he had to develop (1) a trust in me too and (2) what I was comfortable with or not.

Just want to add that my T had very strict boundaries when I started therapy, and *I* had very strict boundaries as well. I wanted him to be this non-person who sat in that chair in that office 24/7. The thought of hearing ANYTHING - like, literally, ANYTHING - about his life outside of the office completely freaked me out. If he had ever touched me, even for a handshake, I would have freaked.

My need for strict boundaries was so strong that he would warn me before he did anything at all...like "I am going to get out of my chair and walk over to the desk for the receipt".

I've been seeing him twice a week for 3 1/2 years, and like ellie said, the boundaries have changed over time. I needed to learn to trust T and he needed to develop trust in me.

I *would* have a hard time with the no contact between sessions. I didn't contact him much at the beginning at all, but it helped to know I COULD if I needed to. I had never been in therapy before, so I didn't know what was "normal". Now that I have been in therapy, I'm pretty sure that if I ever have to look for a new therapist (ack! ), availability between sessions would be something I wanted, even if I never needed to use it.

I don't know if that's helpful, but that's my .02

[lastyearisblank]

Wow that's so interesting. I think you can go either way, grow from a warm therapist or from cool one, it might be a little different path but I basically agree with elliemay.

What happened yesterday if you don't mind sharing? (From the title)

[Marie123]

Your feelings are valid. I would not do well with a t who was basically a blank screen, I have to feel that person is engaged, etc........No calls between sessions...no beverages....waaaay to strict for me. I mean, how can you relax in that atmosphere...... If you feel "impoverished" you ARE impoverished.........you can talk to him about it and probably nothing will change, or look for another t....that is always a bummer, but some t's are not good "fits" for our personalities. Did you interview him before seeing him? It is a good idea to interview 2-3 and then try to choose who you feel would "fit" you.

Hugs

[lovelygirl]

Originally Posted by lastyearisblank

What happened yesterday if you don't mind sharing? (From the title)

I'm feeling a little wrung out so will try to be concise...basically I was sharing with him how I had been feeling much more vulnerable and open-hearted over the last week, very much wanting to connect with the people I'm close to (which is a big thing we're working on), so it felt like a good, important thing. And then I asked him a question I'd asked him before and he'd declined to answer, and he declined again, asking me why I wanted to know. The question was, why did he decide to become a therapist?

I think my asking was partly an extension of this desire for connection I'd been feeling--I wanted to know him a little, not just as this listening body but as a person. And when he declined, I think it plugged into some of my early feelings of deprivation and not being able to both know and be known by the people I'm closest to. Despite the accuracy of his empathic reflections, I still don't feel known yet, and I think that's pushing some buttons.

A lot of this, too, is exactly what elliemay was talking about--that it's early days and neither of us knows each other all that well yet. He doesn't know that I do in fact have very good boundaries; I don't know, really, how present he is or whether I can truly trust him. So I suspect this will continue to sort itself out and evolve as we continue meeting.

God, this is painful. I felt so deprived of loving connection as a kid, and the austerity of this environment just brings all that pain up to the surface. I know that's the point, but it doesn't make it any less painful. Sigh.

Thanks for listening, everyone.

[lastyearisblank]

What an awful, awful (valid) feeling.

I can definitely picture the whole thing from reading the post. I think if you want to continue, this would be something you might have to get used to experiencing over and over again. I don't think it was an accident that you reached out for the first time and he indicated he doesn't go there.

I know that's the point

There are many points, but this is not one of them. It has nothing to do with boundaries. Boundaries are for actions, and what you're describing is more of a feeling.

I really need to stop procrastinating and get back to work but that is my 2 cents.

[rainbow8]

Go with your gut feeling! I've had those kinds of Ts before and now I have a different kind. I'd never go back to the kind who wouldn't be a "real person" with me and who wouldn't allow contact in between sessions, and most important, who would refuse to touch me."

But, you said you HAD Ts in the past who were warm. So, which kind do you want/need? Do you think this T will help you more than the "warm" one? We don't have to suffer in therapy just because we think it's "what will heal us". Sometimes we need a healing touch and not a reserved formal T. But it's what works for YOU, not any one of us.

[lovelygirl]

You've all been so great, thank you so much. I don't really have too many people to talk about my "therapy crazy" with, so this is a godsend.

I feel more and more that I really need to talk through all of this with him. That I need to tell him the ways in which our sessions feel distant or chilly, or how his physical distancing makes me feel even more physically repellent than I already feel. I'm not ready to give up on this, because he has been very empathic when I've talked about my feelings honestly. And frankly, I've seen a lot of shrinks in my day and I do sense that he is very, very good. But I need him to know how this feels.

I also want to ask him to tell me, specifically, how he approaches therapy and why. Does he maintain "abstinence" (an approach of not disclosing, or conveying much by way of warmth or emotion) because it reveals the client's material more clearly, or because he's not a particularly expressive guy in general? Or does he actually warm up a bit once he knows his client more and knows the boundaries are solid? I feel like I need clarity about all these things so I don't bumble around and then inadvertently bump into the sharp corner of one of his limits.

I guess what I'm saying is I sense potential for a good working relationship here, and that the firmer boundaries might help me in some ways. (My previous T in particular was very warm and tender, but had a looser approach, and couldn't ultimately help me explore what I need to look at now, or challenge me around current goals the way my current T can.) So I've decided I'm going to keep showing up and talking with him unless it becomes clear that the therapeutic climate is too austere to be helpful to me. But I feel like there's much more to talk about with him before I reach that decision.

Just writing about all this, and hearing and responding to your questions, has been so incredibly helpful. This is a great place to be and I thank you all.

[elliemay]

I will add more later, but one thing when you talk to him... I was strongly discourage using the word "abstinence". I suspect that is a word he was have a lot to say about.

lovelygirl, I really feel for you. It's all so complicated, because you chose this T because of certain strengths in his approach, but that comes with serious limitations. Plus you may still be grieving for your old T, and new T's response must feel so much harder to accept when compared with old T's much looser limits.

I respect and admire you for choosing what you need over what felt so warm and comfortable. But, I think part of that strength must be in monitoring whether this is indeed really what you need, and in feeling confident enough to change your mind if that's what feels right.

I think you have exactly the right idea- keep showing up, keep talking to T, and keep posting here.

I hope things become a bit clearer over time for you

[elliemay]

My therapist has an uncanny knack for answering questions without answering them at all. It's hilarious really.

When I asked him why he wanted to become a psychiatrist he said "I don't know, this just feels like home to me".

It's kinda frustrating, but oddly enough, it satifies my curiousity. Strange.

[Liam Grey]

I don't know the therapeutic reason behind it, but the no touch at all sounds excessive to say an euphemism, to me.

What's wrong with an handshake? Or a simple hand or shoulder if needed? I can understand hugs or such... but not the whole thing, it seems unnatural-

Anyway, I'm all with Rainbow...I would never want too a T who wouldn't be a "real person" with me.

[lastyearisblank]

Originally Posted by elliemay

I will add more later, but one thing when you talk to him... I was strongly discourage using the word "abstinence". I suspect that is a word he was have a lot to say about.

LOLLL!!!! I love how when psychologists got together to decide what to call this, they picked abstinence. A word whose opposite is not in fact "being a normal amount of friendly" but having sex!! How is that not supposed to confuse clients.

[lovelygirl]

Originally Posted by lastyearisblank

LOLLL!!!! I love how when psychologists got together to decide what to call this, they picked abstinence. A word whose opposite is not in fact "being a normal amount of friendly" but having sex!! How is that not supposed to confuse clients.

I know, right? No, I don't think I'll confuse things any further with T by using that term. But the term "abstinence" also is used in addictions work (i.e. abstaining from alcohol, etc.), so I guess there are multiple usages of it in psych circles.

But seriously, guys, thanks so much for all your input. I just need to be honest with my T, including about my questions on whether or not this will even work for me...and keep the lines of communication open till I/we feel some resolution about it.

[PTSDlovemycats]

Lovelygirl, I hope that this T works out for you and that the 2 of you are able to develop a wonderful therapeutic relationship that will help you on your journey on the road to better mental health! Good luck with this and keep updating us on how things are going both with your T and with your therapy!

[kitten16]

My T (that I terminated just recently) was just like this. I frickin' hated it. There were other problems, but if I had to put it in a nutshell what wasn't working, it was his coldness. I just can't take it. He had this weird frozen look about his face.

There's just no reason in hell why a demeanor of coldness is necessary for any therapist to do their job. Being withdrawn has NOTHING to do with professionalism.

It never ceases to amaze me that SO MANY feelings specialists are uncomfortable around -- drumroll please feelings! I mean WTF!! it's just beyond ironic. And I can't figure it out, and even if I could, it wouldn't matter. I just had to terminate after a year and a half.

[Sannah]

lgirl, maybe what you are feeling is transference?