[zooropa]

I am overcome with fantasies of hurting T. I see myself hitting her, kicking her, stabbing her. I want to hurt her. I am not a violent person and can't really think of any time in my adult life where I have physically hurt someone in anger or on purpose. But I want to hurt T. I want to punch her in the face.

Maybe if she knew that she would stop trying to convince me to come back.

[rainbow8]

((((((zoo))))))

I'm still not clear on what happened in your therapy. Is this because you never forgave her for your huge rupture and her not being there for you the way you needed her to be? It sounds like you're very angry with her about that, still, which is understandable. Does it seem like she's wanting to forget it, and thinks you can just go with therapy as though nothing happened between you?

I guess what I'm not understanding is whether you made the decision to quit therapy due to everything that happened, or you're still angry with her but you really don't want to quit. Obviously, if you want to hurt her there are many unresolved angry feelings inside of you! Can you write about them for yourself or to give it her?

I think these fantasies are important and need to be resolved somehow.

She's trying to convince you to come back to continue therapy or to terminate with more closure? Do you want to see someone else or see no one?

Sorry for all the questions. No need to answer them all; I'm just trying to understand and to help.

[zooropa]

I'm still not clear on what happened in your therapy.

You are not alone, Rainbow.
I have no idea, really. I don't even really know. I have been on probably 5 or 6 different medications in the past week or so, had a number of doctor visits and ER trips, had procedures done that I can't even really let myself think about. I don't use that as an excuse, but as a contributing factor. I don't know what's going on with me and I don't know how much of what I think is going on between T and I is really just in my head.

I mean, I know which interactions we've had that were real vs the imaginary conversations I have with her in my head all the time, I just don't know if I'm reacting to things she has actually said or done or if I'm reacting to my PERCEPTION of what she has said or done. Does that even make sense? bah.

I agree that my feelings of anger last night, especially that transient urge to physically hurt T, show that I have a lot of big unresolved feelings. I still feel angry toward her today, a little, but mostly hurt and definitely don't have that urge to punch her in the face, lol.

One thing that is really confusing to me is that T is so SO adamant that I should continue therapy. If you read her messages I posted in my other threads, you can see that. She is absolute in her insistence that I should continue therapy and "work through this stuff."

For me, it is far less black and white. I don't think there is a right or wrong here, and I am working really hard at sorting out what is going to be best for me. Not what will make me feel best in the moment, not what will help me save face, not what will help me not feel abandoned, but what is TRUE for me. That is really, really hard. I appreciate all the feedback I get here about this, and I weigh all those other points of view with my own. But when T is so incredibly firm that I NEED TO continue therapy (with her, not just continue therapy, but continue seeing her), it brings up a lot of self doubt and second-guessing what might have seemed like a very strong decision on my part.

[Dr.Muffin]

How has she been trying to convince you to come back? I thought, in your other thread, you said that you've broken off contact....did i misread that?

[zooropa]

she left me two voicemails and a text asking me to come in, saying "please, please just come in and we will work through this," telling me that this is my goal in therapy and this is my chance to work towards that goal, telling me that I'm not done with therapy and asking me what I need from her in order to feel ok about coming in tomorrow.

I guess I thought I posted this stuff, but I was pretty sick on Fri and Sat and evidently forgot. I wrote her this text in response to her voicemail (this was Fri):

I can't really come on Mon without some feeling of safety. Maybe a 3rd party needs to be there, I don't know. There's no way I can come in there & cope & your anger or frustration or defensiveness. Any of your emotions, really. I can barely cope with my own.

and her reply:

Please tell me what u want in a dear man - specifically telling me what u want in session and I will provide that. If youd like to bring a 3rd person, feel free.

so this was my Dear Man (a DBT skill for interpersonal effectiveness, for those wondering):

I am afraid to come talk to you face to face on Monday. Having had the experience in the past of facing your anger, frustration, and defensiveness, coping with that and then attempting to cope with my own emotions brought up by that, I am understandably hesitant to open myself up to that again. 11:46

Perhaps if there was some sort of agreement that we would deal with my emotions in my session and then you could deal with your own emotions with your team or whereever you'd like, then I would feel better about coming in. In order for me to continue therapy it has to feel like a safe place for me.

I'm not sure why but you seem to want me to continue therapy, so that would be the reinforce I suppose. (sorry, that was sort of long after all. Also I don't have a 3rd party I would be comfortable bringing in.)

and her reply to that was:

Come in on Mon & I will use my emot reg skills & we will continue to make
progress on ur goal.

Originally Posted by Dr.Muffin

How has she been trying to convince you to come back? I thought, in your other thread, you said that you've broken off contact....did i misread that?

This question crossed my mind also. I thought she had only replied to your phone calls and emails recently, and only once that you seemed to explain here. That doesn't sound like she is "keeping" trying to get you to go back to therapy with her. She sounded more like she thought you should consider it and your appointment is still open with her this week. I think you thinking she is being persistent about this is more in your perceptions than in reality. If you don't want to go back, don't. If you do want to go back, do. But realize whatever you do it is in YOUR power to make that decision. You aren't being forced to do anything.

[zooropa]

I ended up going to the ER again on thurs night and, as I said, was pretty sick Fri and Sat, so I didn't get back here to update you guys, and then I guess I thought I had done it. Sorry for the confusion. I mean, I know this thing is confusing enough without me leaving out big chunks. It's also complicated by me having more than one active thread going. Sorry.

I had to go back and read what I had posted and then read my texts and figure out where I left off. So, yes, I asked her not to call me any more. And then when I was in the ER I am ashamed to say I called her for coaching. Only she didn't answer, but then she called me the next morning and left a message, which I posted the text of in my other thread. My text above was in reply to that.

[Kacey2]

Hi Zoo,
First off let me start with stating the obvious that I really understand you and I think you know that we struggle with a lot of the same issues. I want to tell you that I think I am seeing. (having been there myself)

I think you are in need of reassurance from your t, testing her committment level to you, and absolutely 100% freaked out about upcoming ending of therapy with your t. (referring to your post that she was filing paperwork for a 6 month extension)

I know you are in a mess right now but can you stop and ask yourself what you need and then ask for it directly from t instead of trying to elicit that response from demonstrating certain behaviors? Example, you quit because you want to test her and see if she cares enough to talk you back into therapy. I'm not judging this because I used to do it myself all of the time. I would call and cancel all of my upcoming appointments and then I learned my t would tell the receptionist not to actually cancel my appointments and he would call to talk to me. In my mind that equalled caring and committment so I did it more. Well it eventually back fired on me where he grew tired of it and eventually he let my appointment times get filled (only once) and it was devastating. It was a hard lesson to learn and now I just call him and say that I need reassurance and he loads it on me. It feels great and we don't have to go through all of that.

To me it is clear that you need something from your t and you are trying desperately to get that need met. She can't guess what it is anymore and sounds like she is getting burned out from the game.

A couple of things that my therapist and I have learned over out three years is that I need a whole lot of reassurance that he cares about me and I am special to him. I need this even way more than your typical challanging five year old. I need to know that I am not alone and he is going to be around. And I also need to know that we will be some how connected as long as we are both living. We are not sure how that is going to work but we know that I can't do therapy effectively with that fear of termination. We also made a list of all the things he could give me or do for me and it helped to set the expectation level. We did this maybe a year ago. Then I had to take that list a sincerely think if it was going to work for me and make a choice. I am glad I stayed because we are at a whole new level in our relationship. We have a deeper connection and I am safe and secure.

I know personally for myself (a 10+ borderline)the threat of losing your beloved t is excruciating painful. And those words don't even really do it justice, I would venture to say actually unbearable. Can you ask your t what can be done so you won't have to sit with these abandonment fears? It seems as though you think if you control the ending it will hurt less. Which by the way is looking awfully painful for you. Maybe you aren't thinking that there is another choice but a termination. Check out if that is true. If you can have some sort of limited contact after your course of treatment you might be able to calm down a little bit.

If you don't like what I said or that I have been a little too direct you can tell me to screw off. I do care about you and I want you to feel more peaceful. I understand how big your emotions are. Your t can only respond to what you give her. She probably doesn't know what you are really freaking out about.

[cmac13]

Originally Posted by farmergirl

This question crossed my mind also. I thought she had only replied to your phone calls and emails recently, and only once that you seemed to explain here. That doesn't sound like she is "keeping" trying to get you to go back to therapy with her. She sounded more like she thought you should consider it and your appointment is still open with her this week. I think you thinking she is being persistent about this is more in your perceptions than in reality. If you don't want to go back, don't. If you do want to go back, do. But realize whatever you do it is in YOUR power to make that decision. You aren't being forced to do anything.

Well said once again farmergirl. I don't believe anyone here on this board is court mandated to attend therapy sessions. If you don't like the therapist you have move on. If you do like the therapist and think you can works things out then GREAT! But to go back and forth over and over about text messages/voice messages and what you said and what she said...that just seems way too complicated and confusing and not very productive. It all seems to get lost in the translation and causes more problems

[zooropa]

cmac, don't you think I would "move on" if I could? I would. I wish it were that easy. I can be convinced that T isn't helping me, cannot help me, anymore and still find myself utterly unable to cut off the relationship. What I need is a T who recognizes and understands that and knows how to help me through it.