[BonnieJean]

My t wants me to learn to 'feel for myself' for some of the things I experienced as a child. I have apparently fused the concept of 'self-empathy' with 'self pity' which I find unacceptable. One of my ideas growing up was that I had to be a 'trooper' and any self pity was out of the question. So, unable to find or feel the distinction between the two concepts, I freeze up. I know it will be a continuing topic on Monday...

[learning1]

idk but I'm glad you asked

[Butterflies Are Free]

Good post - I had the same trouble until I put up some pictures of myself as a child around the house. Now, when I struggle with certain issues, I look at the little girl that once was me and I have empathy for her.

[wing]

empathy is feeling with someone. sympathy and pity are felt for someone. I think your therapist might be trying to integrate the "now" you with the "child' you.

[BonnieJean]

Originally Posted by Butterflies Are Free

Good post - I had the same trouble until I put up some pictures of myself as a child around the house. Now, when I struggle with certain issues, I look at the little girl that once was me and I have empathy for her.

Thanks Butterflies. I have some pictures in an album. In someways it is hard to relate to what was showing on the outside in those photos with what was going on on the inside...maybe that would be a good starting point.

[BonnieJean]

Originally Posted by wingin'it

empathy is feeling with someone. sympathy and pity are felt for someone. I think your therapist might be trying to integrate the "now" you with the "child' you.

Wingin'it, that's a helpful distinction. 'With vs for'. Gotta think some about that. You're right about what she might be trying to do. Good stuff. thanks.

[ECHOES]

I think she wants you to be able to feel what it was like then.
The feelings that you couldn't allow yourself, that you pushed deep down, can now be allowed because the original reason for pushing them down no longer is present.

It isn't something you can force, but it is something you can be open to. It takes time and work to be able to be that vulnerable with yourself. It can happen in glimpses, and it is still profound. For example, I had a hard time in 1st grade, even though I'd gone to private kindergarten (there was no kindergarten in public schools in the horse-and-buggy days ). I refused to go to school for days, finally was marched into the school, to my room, mother spoke with the teacher, etc and that was the end of that. That scene is vivid in my memory. But what came to me recently was the feelings about being that first grader. I was hard of hearing and no one knew until age 5 and there was nothing to be done. I also likely heard that school would be fun and exciting and I would make friends... and I didn't socialize because I couldn't hear; kids had no clue. So, it occurred to me that it must have felt very scary and also very disappointing and it makes perfect sense that I decided that school was not the place for me! Those feelings, and the feeling of being very alone came to the surface for me after over 4 years of therapy.
So, it can take time. Your T's gentle nudging might help you feel able to be vulnerable with yourself - what do you think?

[delicatefade26]

Originally Posted by Butterflies Are Free

Good post - I had the same trouble until I put up some pictures of myself as a child around the house. Now, when I struggle with certain issues, I look at the little girl that once was me and I have empathy for her.

When T and I started exploring the hurt little girl within me-she is about 10...I started carrying a pic of me at that age in my wallet behind my ID-It reminds me that some of the stuff I say about myself now I would never say to that little girl...and I feel for her...I'm going to write her a letter one day when I get the courage

I know it will be a continuing topic on Monday...

That is the solution!

[BonnieJean]

Originally Posted by ECHOES

I think she wants you to be able to feel what it was like then.
The feelings that you couldn't allow yourself, that you pushed deep down, can now be allowed because the original reason for pushing them down no longer is present.

It isn't something you can force, but it is something you can be open to. It takes time and work to be able to be that vulnerable with yourself. It can happen in glimpses, and it is still profound. For example, I had a hard time in 1st grade, even though I'd gone to private kindergarten (there was no kindergarten in public schools in the horse-and-buggy days ). I refused to go to school for days, finally was marched into the school, to my room, mother spoke with the teacher, etc and that was the end of that. That scene is vivid in my memory. But what came to me recently was the feelings about being that first grader. I was hard of hearing and no one knew until age 5 and there was nothing to be done. I also likely heard that school would be fun and exciting and I would make friends... and I didn't socialize because I couldn't hear; kids had no clue. So, it occurred to me that it must have felt very scary and also very disappointing and it makes perfect sense that I decided that school was not the place for me! Those feelings, and the feeling of being very alone came to the surface for me after over 4 years of therapy.
So, it can take time. Your T's gentle nudging might help you feel able to be vulnerable with yourself - what do you think?

Echoes-horse & buggy days So, although you already had recollection of the feelings from your experience in 1st Grade, it was later during therapy that you were open to and began to understand/empathize with the experience you were having at that time? That idea helps.

I'm trying to be open but this is Scary. As I feel fearful reading your post I'm thinking maybe I'm trying to hold onto this frozen point to keep me from being as vulnerable with myself as t is nudging... I'm glad it takes time so I'm not facing everything right now.

Thanks for sharing, Echo.

[WePow]

It can be difficult for a person to allow themselves to feel empathy for what happened to them as a child and not have it feel like self-pity. But there is a big difference. Self-pity is something in the NOW. Empathy and Sympathy on the other hand are feelings one has for the pain of another or for the suffering their inner child had to endure in the past.

Use your adult mind in the now to think about the past as something that happened to an innocent child. Not to you. How does it make you feel to know that a child had to go through those things? Maybe write a letter to that child about how you feel knowing all that happened. Write about what you would have done to protect that child if you had been there at the time (the adult you now).

Hope this helps!

[BonnieJean]

Originally Posted by WePow

It can be difficult for a person to allow themselves to feel empathy for what happened to them as a child and not have it feel like self-pity. But there is a big difference. Self-pity is something in the NOW. Empathy and Sympathy on the other hand are feelings one has for the pain of another or for the suffering their inner child had to endure in the past.

Use your adult mind in the now to think about the past as something that happened to an innocent child. Not to you. How does it make you feel to know that a child had to go through those things? Maybe write a letter to that child about how you feel knowing all that happened. Write about what you would have done to protect that child if you had been there at the time (the adult you now).

Hope this helps!

WePow-that's very helpful. I've done writing in therapy as if I were still a child but never as you're suggesting - writing to the child. I'm afraid that will be an emotional but valuable experience. I'm going to try it.
Thanks for your reply and suggestion.

[ECHOES]

So, although you already had recollection of the feelings from your experience in 1st Grade, it was later during therapy that you were open to and began to understand/empathize with the experience you were having at that time?

Well, no. I knew about the events and I knew what it felt like to not want to go to school, and the humiliation of being taken back, but I didn't know or feel the reasons I wanted to not be there in the first place.

[BonnieJean]

Originally Posted by ECHOES

Well, no. I knew about the events and I knew what it felt like to not want to go to school, and the humiliation of being taken back, but I didn't know or feel the reasons I wanted to not be there in the first place.

So it was new for you to feel the reasons you did not want to be there.

[ECHOES]

It was new to me to feel the feelings.
I already had the intellectual part down, but I could feel the disappointment and isolation and hopelessness.

[Sannah]

Hi Bonnie, yes, I agree getting to know that inner child would be a good route to take. Are you afraid to release these feelings from long ago?

[Perna]

I think I had that problem too; my stepmother was not big on "complaining" and everyone was equal, so, even though I was only 5 I'd get the, "everyone else is just as hot/tired/cold/hungry, etc. as you are".

I'm very truthful and found it helpful to think of it in the sense that it is a form of lying to "deny" that one feels something unpleasant, just because one doesn't think one "should"?

I have a lot of little examples of how my stepmother and I dealt with one another and found it helpful to discuss some of them with T.

I remember when my father married my stepmother, within the first week or two she taught me to make my bed (I had just turned 5) and that was that, from then on I was expected to make my bed right away every morning. Much later in my life (I was close to 20 I think) she made fun of me for "expecting a medal for making your bed each day. . . doing what you should do".

My T and I discussed what I would have liked with the bed making and we figured out that it would have felt good to do chores together with my stepmother, that we didn't "connect" with one another, it wasn't really about doing chores and what I was "supposed" to do/not do but was about the feelings that were denied; a 5 year old would like hugs, laughter, someone helping them (it's hard to do anything for the first time, much less for the first time as a child) and enjoying being with them. But, if you think about it, everyone likes those things?

There are so many factors that go into relationships, especially between parent and child and it's impossible for a parent to consider them all! My stepmother taught me to sew when I was a young teen and I'm left-handed so she even bought me left-handed scissors but we did all the work of what we were making in one session, I couldn't work for a couple hours and then do something else and come back another day. She worked all in one session and "forgot" that I was new to sewing and how hard it would seem/be for me learning and not being accustomed to sewing or an adult's pace (or that I might not "like" sewing and being kept at it didn't endear that activity to me!).

As an adult in my mid-40's I was peeling potatoes one evening to make mashed potatoes for dinner, my husband loves them, and I hated peeling potatoes and found it difficult and my T and I discussed that and I suddenly realized that I had trouble with peeling potatoes because I hadn't done it much! It wasn't something "wrong" with me, I just had not practiced as much. It was another chore my stepmother would give me to do and I was awkward at it and uncomfortable, even with a potato peeler, and she'd berate my slowness and stand beside me with a little paring knife and peel circles around me So, I grow up, having "forgotten" these little vignettes of growing up and just know that I hate to peel potatoes but happened to have wondered why and. . .

So, think of things you do/do not like and wonder "why" and look back at all the things you can remember about that item/activity/situation and see what you can learn?

[BonnieJean]

Originally Posted by BonnieJean

WePow-that's very helpful. I've done writing in therapy as if I were still a child but never as you're suggesting - writing to the child. I'm afraid that will be an emotional but valuable experience. I'm going to try it.
Thanks for your reply and suggestion.

I started writing but when I got to the part about what I would have done as an adult to help her it got real negative. I kept writing. I didn't get to help but I did read both parts to my t today. That was scary because of the first part feeling out of control and the 2nd part for being so kind of mean and negative. It will take time....and more tries.

[BonnieJean]

Originally Posted by Perna

I think I had that problem too; my stepmother was not big on "complaining" and everyone was equal, so, even though I was only 5 I'd get the, "everyone else is just as hot/tired/cold/hungry, etc. as you are".

I'm very truthful and found it helpful to think of it in the sense that it is a form of lying to "deny" that one feels something unpleasant, just because one doesn't think one "should"?

I have a lot of little examples of how my stepmother and I dealt with one another and found it helpful to discuss some of them with T.

I remember when my father married my stepmother, within the first week or two she taught me to make my bed (I had just turned 5) and that was that, from then on I was expected to make my bed right away every morning. Much later in my life (I was close to 20 I think) she made fun of me for "expecting a medal for making your bed each day. . . doing what you should do".

My T and I discussed what I would have liked with the bed making and we figured out that it would have felt good to do chores together with my stepmother, that we didn't "connect" with one another, it wasn't really about doing chores and what I was "supposed" to do/not do but was about the feelings that were denied; a 5 year old would like hugs, laughter, someone helping them (it's hard to do anything for the first time, much less for the first time as a child) and enjoying being with them. But, if you think about it, everyone likes those things?

There are so many factors that go into relationships, especially between parent and child and it's impossible for a parent to consider them all! My stepmother taught me to sew when I was a young teen and I'm left-handed so she even bought me left-handed scissors but we did all the work of what we were making in one session, I couldn't work for a couple hours and then do something else and come back another day. She worked all in one session and "forgot" that I was new to sewing and how hard it would seem/be for me learning and not being accustomed to sewing or an adult's pace (or that I might not "like" sewing and being kept at it didn't endear that activity to me!).

As an adult in my mid-40's I was peeling potatoes one evening to make mashed potatoes for dinner, my husband loves them, and I hated peeling potatoes and found it difficult and my T and I discussed that and I suddenly realized that I had trouble with peeling potatoes because I hadn't done it much! It wasn't something "wrong" with me, I just had not practiced as much. It was another chore my stepmother would give me to do and I was awkward at it and uncomfortable, even with a potato peeler, and she'd berate my slowness and stand beside me with a little paring knife and peel circles around me So, I grow up, having "forgotten" these little vignettes of growing up and just know that I hate to peel potatoes but happened to have wondered why and. . .

So, think of things you do/do not like and wonder "why" and look back at all the things you can remember about that item/activity/situation and see what you can learn?

Thanks, Perna. I felt sad reading about the bed making experience you had as a 5 year old and not connecting with your step mother. And about her berating you and making fun of you. It actually makes me feel angry, too. All those messages as a child can be difficult to deal with and to overcome. Was your dad a witness to any of that?

I'm glad you've figured out why you don't like peeling potatoes. That's a helpful suggestion to pay attention to things like that to help learn.