[mcl6136]

Okay, so this is a bit strange. I've been in therapy almost a year now and have a positive relationship with my male t. But once in a while he does things that really seem manipulative. For example: his cell phone alarm (I'm thinking this isn't a ring tone) goes off repeatedly and he jumps up to shut it off. Other times, he unbuttons his shirt to the max and sits in a way that seems to display, well, his hairy chest. It really bugs me...I swear he's testing me. Do any people have advice on how to handle this?

[granite1]

Originally Posted by mcl6136

Okay, so this is a bit strange. I've been in therapy almost a year now and have a positive relationship with my male t. But once in a while he does things that really seem manipulative. For example: his cell phone alarm (I'm thinking this isn't a ring tone) goes off repeatedly and he jumps up to shut it off. Other times, he unbuttons his shirt to the max and sits in a way that seems to display, well, his hairy chest. It really bugs me...I swear he's testing me. Do any people have advice on how to handle this?

iwould definately tell him it bothers you

[swimmergirl]

I agree that you have to tell him about this. Start with the phone. That is unprofessional. As far as unbuttoning his shirt, does he unbutton it during your session? Or is that how it is before he comes in? Because if he is doing that DURING your session that is definitely inappropriate and gives me the heebie jeebies. Is he quite older than you? Do you think he is attracted to you? When you say you think he is testing you, what do you mean? Do you think he is looking to make you mad or for a reaction? Just wondering.

[Indie'sOK]

I would definitely bring this up with him. I agree with swimmergirl - if he's unbuttoning his shirt during session, that is just downright inappropriate, no doubt about that. Ask him about it and try to gauge his reaction. Does he become defensive, or is he calm and understanding and willing to discuss it further?

Keep talking if it helps x

The unbuttoned shirt I think whether or not the action is done in session or before seems inappropriate. I mean... Ew... Kinda creepy... The phone I can understand happening maybe 1-2x on accident... More than that it's a problem! I hope you can talk to him.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by mcl6136

Okay, so this is a bit strange. I've been in therapy almost a year now and have a positive relationship with my male t. But once in a while he does things that really seem manipulative. For example: his cell phone alarm (I'm thinking this isn't a ring tone) goes off repeatedly and he jumps up to shut it off. Other times, he unbuttons his shirt to the max and sits in a way that seems to display, well, his hairy chest. It really bugs me...I swear he's testing me. Do any people have advice on how to handle this?

I am curious about your comments about manipulating and testing. Do you mean that you think your T is doing those things to see how far he can go before you protest or object? Like he's trying to find the edge of your boundaries? If that is it, it seems underhanded. I think he should just ask about your boundaries if he has concerns. Would it be possible for you to ask him matter of factly why he does those things, without impuning a negative interpretation (that he is manipulating you)? Give him the benefit of the doubt when you ask him and see what he says.

[Flooded]

I'm seriously gagging at the mere thought of a hairy chest

This really is kind of gross. Very inappropriate. Makes me wonder if he is a safe person to be seeing.

[Liam Grey]

The alarm thing is surely unprofessional and needs to be stopped.

For the chest stuff, best way to know is to ask. Maybe he's doing it without even thinking about it. Is he doing something else, other than this, that may looks to you like he's trying to taking advantage of you?

(I'm assuming he's unbuttoning his polo shirt and you see a bit or some more of his chest... if he's unbuttoning over his stomach or something like this I agree there's no need to ask and you should just get out of there asap).

[WePow]

If he did that, I would unbutton my shirt to see his response! Oh wait... maybe not. But I would sure be mad enough to do that! Not cool at all! Maybe I would take off shoes and socks. When he asked, I would say "Oh I thought we were getting comfortable or something!" very disturbing.

[Butterflies Are Free]

I agree with everyone who posted - if you are able, please bring up both issues with him. If he is a good T, he will listen and change his behavior.

[skysblue]

Did he display that behavior from the beginning or is it just now showing up (baring his chest)? You say you have a good relationship with him for a year now. Have you had to put up with this that long? Yuck. I'd say you'll need to tell him that this is disturbing. Be careful that he doesn't turn it around to be your issue.

Also, telephone ringing is not kosher. It is an interruption and it is rude and it is unprofessional. Even if he doesn't answer the phone, it can seriously interrupt any sort of processing you're doing at the moment. Ask him to turn off his phone. No, tell him.

[geez]

Keep us posted as to how the conversation goes. Be safe!

[mcl6136]

Oh wow! I can't believe how much feedback I got from you all. I'm very isolated with this and everyone's reactions made a huge difference. I'm feeling really stressed by this! My t has been doing this sort of thing (the alarm/phone ringing, the shirt unbuttoned) on and off...for quite some time..and I have not dealt with it. He seems to do this precisely when the therapy seems to settle into something I can count on, something supportive. Just so I'm clear...the shirt is a sport shirt and it's unbuttoned by two to three buttons, I mean....come on...like even if you need the breeze, that seems excessive to me. Yet I am feeling really unsure of my ability to bring this up in a way that, as one group member said, it doesn't not get turned around on me and I end up talking about my (not!) erotic transference. Yes, I feel manipulated, and I am thinking....perhaps it's time to GO! Thanks for all of your support...whew!
Yes, I feel that he is testing my boundaries, and I have just figured, hey, I will ignore this, not offer a reaction, and he will finally stop. He is a good therapist in other ways, but I often feel that i'm being tested. Plus, I don't envision a way to bring this up that it would not be turned into my thing! He is very controlled and smooth, and I can see him saying, well, why is this he

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by swimmergirl

I agree that you have to tell him about this. Start with the phone. That is unprofessional. As far as unbuttoning his shirt, does he unbutton it during your session? Or is that how it is before he comes in? Because if he is doing that DURING your session that is definitely inappropriate and gives me the heebie jeebies. Is he quite older than you? Do you think he is attracted to you? When you say you think he is testing you, what do you mean? Do you think he is looking to make you mad or for a reaction? Just wondering.

Hey there, hope you're fine!
He does not ubutton during session but it is already like that...he sits in kind of a suggestive way, however. It cannot be just casual....He is older than me, but I'm no spring chicken either. I think he is attracted to himself!

[mcl6136]

very funny actually. Perhaps I should mention that we could mirror each other and see the response. Given that I really think he is trying to get some kind of reaction!

[swimmergirl]

Hi Mc..........

I am glad that he doesn't do it during session................yick shivers..........but he also sits in a suggestive way! ohhhhhhhh kay. If you are nervous maybe take someone to see him with you when you discuss it. Or quit going altogether and find another T. Seriously........this is not good. Especially when you say he does this when therapy seems to "settle into something I can count on, something supportive". Therapists are supposed to be really good at body language so it is highly unlikely that he doesn't know what he is doing. If you really want to continue to work with him, you will have to address this. If not, find someone else. Seriously. Better safe than sorry. Good luck.

[Flooded]

Have you got a close friend who could sit in with you to see if he still does it?

[lunarpariah]

LOL Wepow .. that is too funny.

And yes I agree, both actions are unprofessional. I would definitely bring it up with him.

[mcl6136]

Okay, here goes. Today is therapy again and I will start with the repeated phone calls and alarms and the works, on the phone. I will say, "Gee, Doctor, I'm finding it difficult to concentrate with all of these noises during our session and I'd like you to make sure this is a quiet place for me." And see.
In terms of the shirt, well, who knows if today will be one of the days when he chooses to begin (he doesn't unbutton it during the session) with lots of buttons unbuttoned. And honestly, I'm thinking that despite the fact that we have covered a lot of good ground, I'm going to need to go elsewhere. The truth is, I have sensed for a long time that my t works by trying to get responses of irritation, upset, etc from me. I have brought this up before, and so far, he never admits this is the case, but several months ago, he told me that during his training, one of his mentors told him that he needed to "use himself" in the therapy" to advance the goals of the therapy. At the time, I felt confused, but now my sense of this is that he does things to trigger reactions. The more I think about this, the more I feel that it is wrong. Thoughts?

[Wren_]

The shirt thing would be very hard to tell if it is connected with you, or if it is how he always dresses. Is it hot in the office? is this something that happens on those days only? With the phone situation, how often has that happened? was it just the once and one of those things where it just happened? (my alarm has gone crazy once) or is it something that happens regularly. Knowing some of those and looking at them might help you know if it's connected with you or just bad timing with the phone, and how he is with the shirt (which still leaves you with having to decide if it's too much).

I hope it went well today with bringing some of these things up and that you are able to address whether he is "using himself" in the therapy sessions

[Flooded]

I would be wondering where his limits are in "using himself"

Originally Posted by mcl6136

The truth is, I have sensed for a long time that my t works by trying to get responses of irritation, upset, etc from me. I have brought this up before, and so far, he never admits this is the case, but several months ago, he told me that during his training, one of his mentors told him that he needed to "use himself" in the therapy" to advance the goals of the therapy. At the time, I felt confused, but now my sense of this is that he does things to trigger reactions. The more I think about this, the more I feel that it is wrong. Thoughts?

((((((mcl)))))

I think it would be worth it to have a very open and clear and honest conversation with T about this. I used to REALLY believe that my T was manipulating situations to upset me on purpose, and whenever I would ask him about it, he would deny it...and I wasn't sure what to believe. But we did talk about it a lot, and I would tell him my "suspicions" and he would hear me and think about his part and we would try to figure out together why it felt that way to me.

I really KNOW now that T wouldn't manipulate things to upset me on purpose. There is PLENTY in therapy and the therapy relationship to bring up all kinds of issues, without adding anything....and we've been able to work through a ton of stuff with just the things that come up naturally.

Which brings me to your question about T "using himself" to further the therapy. In my therapy, I know that my T is fully invested in the relationship, and that he is "in it" as much as I am. To me, that is an example of "using himself" to help me...he is authentic, and honest, and open, and allows me to be however I need to be with him. That is what I need in therapy, and that's a big part of how I'm healing. So, I guess I see the possibility of a positive spin on T using himself in therapy.

I just wanted to share my experience, to give another perspective. I have suspected my T of all kinds of crazy manipulation, but for ME, it was always tied to the past and to my own fears and insecurities, rather than anything T was actually doing. That may not be your experience at all, but maybe it's worth exploring a little more??

[sunrise]

I think talking to him directly about this is pretty important, especially the part about how he seems to you to be "testing you" and you wonder if this is true? Tell him you feel he tries to irritate you to get a response, and this seems to occur when things are going well, and you wonder if this is some kind of technique he is using? If he agrees this is it, you could also state you prefer direct communication rather than testing. But you may find out your perceptions are not correct, as tree said was the case for her. Or they may be. In any case, even if you don't end up staying with this T, having a clear and direct conversation about this issue will only help you in the future with another therapist or with other people in your life with whom you need to communicate directly. Good luck.

(Does he ask you to call him "Doctor"?)

FWIW, my T uses himself in therapy and also uses our strong and close relationship to help motivate change. I think this is not uncommon. At least with my T, there has been nothing sinister about it.

[crazycanbegood]

I am, uh, well insulated, so my body operates at higher temperatures than most people. I often need some air circulating through my clothes to cool me. Maybe he is a walking furnace like I am, and he is unawares that his behavior is distracting. I'd mention it to him.

(I've told my T TWICE to watch out what she wears with jeans because I have seen more than I have ever wanted to see of my T! And I did use the words "trauma" and "disturbing.")