(((((((((TRIGGER for TERMINATION))))))))))

It has been almost FOUR weeks, since I terminated with T. He is a man I admire and respect. It is very difficult for me to even process what happened and WHY? But also, where to go from here?

I have been with this T for two years. He has helped me immensely resolve many residual issues left from Terminating T #1 who terminated me FOUR years ago without due cause.

The week before *I* terminated, had been extremely stressful for me. We had met for my regular session and in the last few minutes I found the courage to share I was having some medical tests the following day, which I learned of the day before.

Next day, I sent an email sharing my fear with T. (He was the only one that knew at the time). I sent a second email sharing results.

The following day, a conversation with a friend left me so triggered I left a message on his voicemail crying. An email later that Friday night sharing feelings of shame and fear. T didn't respond to my voicemail message or emails.

In all fairness, T and I had an agreement. I could email as often as I wished, T would respond when able. Over a two year period, I never abused the privilege and emailed occasionally, no more than once per week. T always responded promptly until July. I began noticing T not responding to ANY emails. I asked him about it one session, and he said it was just coincidence.

The following Monday late afternoon, I sent an email forewarning him of a sudden desire to leave therapy and my wish to discuss it with him IN PERSON. I said I wanted to honor the work we had done together and discuss the recent events.

He responded.

Early in therapy, I made a promise. NOT to walk away, but reach out, whenever I felt the desire to leave. Throughout my therapy, anytime there was a rupture.... I kept my promise. This was no different although THIS did not feel like a rupture.

When T and I met for session, I asked him to begin. He said he wanted to talk about double messages and HIS agitation over my emails. I asked him to explain a double message, so he did. I had always told him that email was a way for me give him something which was too much for me at the time, to "hold" until the next session. Most often, it was really BIG feelings. A few times, it was a triggered incident. In all cases, I never expected a response. This time, I did. Without hesitation, I felt I owed him an apology. So, I offered one. I agreed how confusing it must be when a client sends a mixed message and I asked him, as T, to try and understand if it's confusing him, how it's confusing me. I think I said if I was perfect, I wouldn't NEED T and we both laughed. It was so heartfelt and easy for me.

YET.

T's countertransference scared me. In truth, I think T was agitated with himself, not me. He had shared in his earlier email, he had gone out of town and was not available from my appointment time until Monday morning. The problem was there was no Plan B. T was aggravated that I didn't call his office to schedule an appointment with another T, but he wasn't thinking clearly. WHY, would I do that? I didn't even know he was gone! I tried to explain I don't even know his work schedule and whether, or not, he works on Friday. There was nothing on his message to indicate he was unavailable. I told T he was making me feel guilty. BAD.

T tried to bring me back saying I had nothing to feel guilty about. I was not bad. But, I wasn't there. Not really.

And then, to complicate matters....T's OWN double bind messages.

Reach out to me, it's ok...But, I may get agitated.

You can have any appointment you want during my normal therapy hours....But, there is a waiting list.

Your emails will remain private....But, I may share with my admin staff. (Later, after it was discovered he had sent my email to a staff member)

This will be a safe place....But, you may see others you know in the waiting area and there is nothing I can do about that. Sorry.

It was easy to overlook all of those things before. NOT now.

I am different.

Once I shared PC with T. I made a request. Could T be just a little more like some of the T's I read about here or in the book, The Gift of Therapy by Irvin Yalom? I shared examples with him from PC.
T said he couldn't be that T for me and explained why he felt it would be more difficult. I took his word and chose to stay.

My last day with T was filled with MANY, MANY, MANY tears. As I got up to leave, T reached out and touched my shoulder.

I. COULDN'T. DO. IT.

I spent much of my therapy asking him to be "that" T....and for the moment he was, I was numb.

Now what?

I'm so sorry that you are going through this. You have so, so, so much courage that I wish that I'd had in my last therapy relationship, which ended when I moved and not as I realized that it should have sooner because I lacked your courage. I saw lots of countertransference, was made to feel guilty about my feelings and actions (I once called my therapist outside of a session, which she allowed at the time, because I was feeling suicidal - her response was that I interrupted her while she had company over, but she made the rule that it was fine for me to contact her), and continually changing rules that made me feel like I was messing up our relationship and was a bad person. She, too, expected me just to know things. One of the worst parts was that 6 months after our relationship ended we exchanged emails--our plan was to write each other about twice/year--and she brought up a whole new reason concerning why she'd reduced our sessions from twice a week to once a week abruptly. This reason was that 'I couldn't handle seeing you more than once a week.' All along, she'd said it was in my best interest that we only meet once per week. Now I'm in an AMAZING therapy relationship with someone who can give me what I need and deserve and not blame me for any of her faults, shortcomings, mistakes. The transition was tough, dealing with my previous therapist has been a big part of our discussions, but having what I deserved all along has been incredibly helpful for my growth. There are other therapists in the sea... it might take looking around a bit, but I guarantee that therapists with more healthy boundaries and no double bind messages do exist. It's really too bad that such harmful therapists are allowed to practice--it can be traumatic and even deadly to those of us who depend on them to help us grow and deal with mental illness.

[WePow]

I think you owe it to yourself to process THROUGH this with your T.
Even if that is not changing the fact that you are going to stop seeing that T, you can still end things in a healthy way.

[porcupine2]

I would be very upset if I were you "Lost". You depend on your T or at least a back up when he's not available for times when you are in crisis. He sounds more concerned about himself having to deal with clients afterhours. I hope your next session goes well. You said you are terminating him? I'm a bit confused.

Originally Posted by porcupine2

I would be very upset if I were you "Lost". You depend on your T or at least a back up when he's not available for times when you are in crisis. He sounds more concerned about himself having to deal with clients afterhours. I hope your next session goes well. You said you are terminating him? I'm a bit confused.

Yes, I terminated. It's been a few weeks.

Originally Posted by WePow

I think you owe it to yourself to process THROUGH this with your T.
Even if that is not changing the fact that you are going to stop seeing that T, you can still end things in a healthy way.

I did process it with T. THAT day.

T had always said the goal in therapy is to limit the control others have over me.

I said, he wanted me to always honor his boundaries, but he didn't always honor mine. I gave him a few examples. (We had processed each when they happened)

Clearly, T wanted me to stay. He said I was welcome to return ANYTIME.

I no longer felt safe. UGH.

[likewater]

Im sorry that you had a bad experience. Therapy is very complicated, and i would be very upset if my emails were forwarded without
my permission

Thanks.

I know it may sound like a bad experience. Therapy with T#1 was a BAD experience on so many levels. Therapy with this T was a GREAT experience, just a few bad moments.

I am not lost in this termination like I was when my first T terminated me. NO. I am much stronger than I was before. Actually, I may have been found?

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by lost in termination

T had always said the goal in therapy is to limit the control others have over me.

This doesn't sound like a happy goal to me. It sounds like a negative goal, not a positive goal. Maybe it's T's own goal? And personally, I HATE that last-day touch or hug, HATE IT!!! All of a sudden you think you know me? Now I'm supposed to know you? NOW you want to touch me??? That's how crazy it makes me. That's why I told THIS T to hug me as soon as I walked in the door. Lucky for me, he was hugging his previous patient as he was leaving - a 7 yr old boy. I said, "I hope you don't discriminate on the basis on age or gender - I want a hug too!" Gotcha! Maybe go back to someone else for short term therapy? A hugger this time? Someone more joyful, more generous. You have it in YOU - I feel you need it reciprocated to get it out there more, to learn to give it to the right people so you get more back. Not just giving to takers (who control you by withholding?).

[stopdog]

The email thing sounds very bad indeed. Did the t give an explanation for it? Was there some reason for the staff member to have been shown it?

[unaluna]

The email contained both personal stuff and a request to schedule an appointment, and was printed off in full and given to the staff member in order to schedule the appointment. Something like that...? I mean, I wasn't there or anything, I just read about it? If this is the same person...

[sunrise]

Sometimes it comes down to cost/benefit. You have said several very positive things about this therapist:
--"He is a man I admire and respect"
--"He has helped me immensely resolve many residual issues left from Terminating T #1"
--"Therapy with this T was a GREAT experience, just a few bad moments."

You also have had some miscommunications and things he did that bothered you a lot, like sharing your email with a staff member, becoming upset (agitated) with himself that he didn't provide better for his clients while he was away, not guaranteeing you that you won't encounter someone you know in the waiting room, offering you any appointment time you want but then not being able to make good on that offer since his schedule is filled...

It sounds like the negatives outweigh the positives now and that is why you have terminated. If there was a way you could work your way through those negatives with him, could you continue with him? Some of those negatives sound like they could be worked through, if he responds appropriately. Like I think sharing your email with staff is pretty serious stuff. When you raised that issue with him, what did he say? I would have a hard time with that one too, unless he responded with something like, "I shouldn't have done that, and I'm sorry. From now on, let's consider the emails you send me as not confidential because I may share them with staff for scheduling purposes. It would be best to limit emails to issues like cancellations and appointment changes, etc." Then you know where you stand with emails and you have his apology and can move on from there. But if he doesn't see the problem or acts like you are blowing the breach in confidence out of proportion, then I would have a hard time with that attitude.

I'm not sure about his "agitation" comment. Maybe he just means he is upset at himself that he didn't provide better for his clients while he was away. I think it is good if he is upset with himself. He may become a better practitioner because of this experience. I could get past this if he told me his plan for the future so this doesn't happen with clients again. For example, my T doesn't answer client communications swiftly, but he has a message on his phone giving the number of a crisis clinic if we are in crisis. So one always knows that they can call that number to get help. And if they are not in crisis, they can be patient and wait for T to return their call, which can take a few days.

Anyway, LIT, I guess my hope is that you have raised each of your issues with him and given him a chance to respond and for both of you to get on the same page so you can move forward. If you haven't raised these issues, then there is some more work that could be done. If you have raised the issues and he has responded unsatisfactorily, then I would probably move on too.

Good luck, LIT.

Originally Posted by hankster

The email contained both personal stuff and a request to schedule an appointment, and was printed off in full and given to the staff member in order to schedule the appointment. Something like that...? I mean, I wasn't there or anything, I just read about it? If this is the same person...

Yes. It was forwarded to a staff member and then sent by that member, back to me.

[mcl6136]

this is a reasoned approach to a devil of a problem! Walking away from a T relationship where there was some growth, but serious issues, is really really hard.

I think I felt through my whole therapy that there would be this great shining moment where I said goodbye, cried and told my T that we had done so much great work together and then rode into the sunset, healed with a great new life.

Sometimes it doesn't work that way. Maybe more times than I thought, since I internalized most of the problems and felt very tentative speaking out. You have seen what you need, and I think that's commendable!

His agitation is also what I have questions about. What did he say? How much did he "own" the issues that you brought up?

Because this is someone you respect and admire and benefited from, is there a way to do a salvage? In any case, would another appointment help? I'm hoping I'm not projecting terribly here, but it helped me a LOT to talk through this stuff with my T, and I didn't admire or respect him, not that much ...though we still were able to accomplish some things.
Also, if he was really feeling agitation, he might be even more able to clarfiy things when the heat of the heat of the moment has cleared somewhat for him.

On the other hand, if you're done, you're done. And you'll know, I bet.....

Originally Posted by sunrise

You also have had some miscommunications and things he did that bothered you a lot, like sharing your email with a staff member, becoming upset (agitated) with himself that he didn't provide better for his clients while he was away, not guaranteeing you that you won't encounter someone you know in the waiting room, offering you any appointment time you want but then not being able to make good on that offer since his schedule is filled...

It sounds like the negatives outweigh the positives now and that is why you have terminated. If there was a way you could work your way through those negatives with him, could you continue with him? Some of those negatives sound like they could be worked through, if he responds appropriately. Like I think sharing your email with staff is pretty serious stuff. When you raised that issue with him, what did he say? I would have a hard time with that one too, unless he responded with something like, "I shouldn't have done that, and I'm sorry. From now on, let's consider the emails you send me as not confidential because I may share them with staff for scheduling purposes. It would be best to limit emails to issues like cancellations and appointment changes, etc." Then you know where you stand with emails and you have his apology and can move on from there. But if he doesn't see the problem or acts like you are blowing the breach in confidence out of proportion, then I would have a hard time with that attitude.

I'm not sure about his "agitation" comment. Maybe he just means he is upset at himself that he didn't provide better for his clients while he was away. I think it is good if he is upset with himself. He may become a better practitioner because of this experience. I could get past this if he told me his plan for the future so this doesn't happen with clients again. For example, my T doesn't answer client communications swiftly, but he has a message on his phone giving the number of a crisis clinic if we are in crisis. So one always knows that they can call that number to get help. And if they are not in crisis, they can be patient and wait for T to return their call, which can take a few days.

Anyway, LIT, I guess my hope is that you have raised each of your issues with him and given him a chance to respond and for both of you to get on the same page so you can move forward. If you haven't raised these issues, then there is some more work that could be done. If you have raised the issues and he has responded unsatisfactorily, then I would probably move on too.

Good luck, LIT.

Sure. If I could see a way to work through it, I would go back. I don't see an easy solution to any of the problems.

For example, the waiting room issue. He has SEEN (firsthand) the anxiety created by an encounter with a friend in his waiting room on several occasions and yet there is no easy resolution. None. He basically apologized, said this is how it is and I understand your predicament. He did say, I could come any other time I wished, BUT he has a waiting list.

As for email, after the incident he agreed to keep my information and email private. In addition, he offered to create another folder where emails and information not relating to insurance etc....would be placed. That never happened. The week prior to leaving, he was searching for an email and pulled out my normal file. I noticed, but didn't ask about it until I left.

There was too much inflexibility on his end, and too much flexibility on mine.

Originally Posted by hankster

This doesn't sound like a happy goal to me. It sounds like a negative goal, not a positive goal. Maybe it's T's own goal? And personally, I HATE that last-day touch or hug, HATE IT!!! All of a sudden you think you know me? Now I'm supposed to know you? NOW you want to touch me??? That's how crazy it makes me. That's why I told THIS T to hug me as soon as I walked in the door. Lucky for me, he was hugging his previous patient as he was leaving - a 7 yr old boy. I said, "I hope you don't discriminate on the basis on age or gender - I want a hug too!" Gotcha! Maybe go back to someone else for short term therapy? A hugger this time? Someone more joyful, more generous. You have it in YOU - I feel you need it reciprocated to get it out there more, to learn to give it to the right people so you get more back. Not just giving to takers (who control you by withholding?).

LOL!

Hankster, THAT'S IT! Your description of the goodbye hug almost fits perfectly! I loved reading the courage you showed with this T! Your description made me laugh...something I haven't done very often lately! Thanks for sharing.

Originally Posted by mcl6136

His agitation is also what I have questions about. What did he say? How much did he "own" the issues that you brought up?

Because this is someone you respect and admire and benefited from, is there a way to do a salvage? In any case, would another appointment help? I'm hoping I'm not projecting terribly here, but it helped me a LOT to talk through this stuff with my T, and I didn't admire or respect him, not that much ...though we still were able to accomplish some things.
Also, if he was really feeling agitation, he might be even more able to clarfiy things when the heat of the heat of the moment has cleared somewhat for him.

On the other hand, if you're done, you're done. And you'll know, I bet.....

His agitation was over something I wrote in my email. Something like, "There are times when your silence isn't healing. Sometimes, it's deafening and HARD."

He responded negatively in session.

Last April, I sent T an email about his silence, and how it's perceived by me... the negative self talk in my mind during those really quiet moments. I asked him, at the time, to be honest. Did I email too often? Was it too much? Was I too much? I wrote....Say something, ANYTHING. Just please, don't be silent.

T said I wasn't too much. I didn't email too much and I was still welcome to email whenever I wanted and he would respond when he was able.

UPDATE:

I decided to take the advice of some PC'ers and a HUGE leap of faith and call my former T today and see if it is possible to meet and process the day I terminated. I called and left a message on his voicemail, then got a busy signal as I was trying to send it. Since, I wasn't sure if it went through, I left another message a few minutes later. Again,busy signal. ugh

So, I sent an email explaining what happened and sharing I wasn't sure if either had gone through. I asked if it was possible to process that last day? I wrote, I felt uncomfortable with how it all ended and I needed to understand why I made the decision I did.

I guess I don't "need" to understand, just hope to understand.

Regardless, he hasn't responded. I will give him a few days. I am sure he is trying to determine if he can reply in such a way without creating hurt/harm for me. (maybe wishful thinking on my part?)

I have no regrets, but originally thought if we met, it needed to be in person. Now, I am thinking by phone ? Is that SHAME?

[porcupine2]

This just puts an exclamation point on the fact he is not a good therapist with you. You should not have your emails and voicemails ignored. You are not responsible for his actions or inactions. Sometimes endings just invite more questions. I hope you can move on and find someone else that has your best interest at heart.

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by lost in termination

Regardless, he hasn't responded. I will give him a few days.

A few days? Really? My T 'officially' responds within 24 hours but usually the same day and if she knows I'm in need, as soon as she has a moment which can be within the hour.

A few days????? I personally think you're being way too generous in giving him so much time.

Originally Posted by porcupine2

This just puts an exclamation point on the fact he is not a good therapist with you. You should not have your emails and voicemails ignored. You are not responsible for his actions or inactions. Sometimes endings just invite more questions. I hope you can move on and find someone else that has your best interest at heart.

I'm beginning to think no one is a good therapist WITH me.

Originally Posted by skysblue

A few days? Really? My T 'officially' responds within 24 hours but usually the same day and if she knows I'm in need, as soon as she has a moment which can be within the hour.

A few days????? I personally think you're being way too generous in giving him so much time.

See.

There I go again. It's a self-protective measure on my part.

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by lost in termination

See.

There I go again. It's a self-protective measure on my part.

But, that's the relationship between me and T and how it works with some other T's. Maybe your T and you have developed another method (one which I would not like). So, if you two have a different agreement, then that's what you should base your expectations on that.

If you end up seeing T, you might ask him to change his timing of response.

Ok, so it's been almost 24 hours and my former T (who said I was welcome back to therapy ANYTIME) has not responded.

What if he NEVER responds? Then, how do I process the fear, guilt and shame?

HEEEEELLLLPPPPPP!

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by lost in termination

Ok, so it's been almost 24 hours and my former T (who said I was welcome back to therapy ANYTIME) has not responded.

What if he NEVER responds? Then, how do I process the fear, guilt and shame?

HEEEEELLLLPPPPPP!

Maybe don't jump to conclusions yet. You say he does not always respond quickly so this is probably more of the same.