NOT EVEN A THOUGHT in my head but ???

Hi Sky,

Yes, I deal with severe physical pain daily, in addition to whatever other challenges I have. It's quite a challenge, as you said. I'm sorry you deal with it as well. And this, for me, definitely adds to the mix too. And would be another good reason to have an emergency plan.

Take care,
ErinBear

LMO human or not I could debate you on this one they chose the job and this job is a risky one and can always lead to some bad things..as far as liability they have insurance ...I DO agree with all that if someone is openly at risk its a trip to ER but for those who NEED to talk about it...a stranger I am thinking would not cut it..I doubt say ErinBear would feel helped by a crisis center compared to her T...Now I can see with those who travel a lot and all having a plan for someone else OR having a you must go to ER deal but I think it's kinda sad they cannot talk to their T on such an important issue

I once called a crisis center not mega suicidal myself and what a joke

I will say Myself...I was thinking on one of your posts and I have never had issues with any T I have had as far as not clicking and all but I will say when I HAD close friends..I didnt need a T at all...That got me to thinking about..really what good IS therapy after all its a paid friend in many ways...thats a whole nother topic lol but anyhow I wish those who wanted and needed to TALK on it could and I do see a case for ER but seems the T could make that decision with the client..Good topic

Myself...why did you stay awake all night???

This is such a hard topic

I'm glad we're all discussing it but it sure is hard.

Thanks,
ErinBear

Off topic but answering SleepsWithButterflies question/paragraph to me....

It wasn't my not clicking with the therapist that made me make this decision It was that I grew to care too much for that therapist that got fired. I depended on her to ALWAYS be there, And up until she got fired she was there day or night for me. And then suddenly I had only a few days with no explaination (she finally did explain against agency rules why she was fired and why she was fighting them in court) but I was left hanging and it took me years of bouncing from this therapist or that to find someone that knew what flashbacks were and how to help me the way she was. Back then in the 1980's people were just beginning to understand the effects of child sexual abuse let alone figure out how to help someone with non war related flashbacks.

and I never want to feel that helpless and dependant on a therapist to ALWAYS be there. Therapists are human and the ***** hits the fan for them too and like I found out sometimes the ***** hitting the fan for them means clients are left hanging and theres nothing that can change that.

And the way I see it - Most of therapy work is done by the client anyway. if the client is lucky they see or hear from their therapist 2 hours out of 168 hours a week (24i in a day X7 days a week). That leaves 166 hours where the client has to take care of themselves. So when I decided not to be so helpless and dependant of my therapist to ALWAYS be there I started taking care of and control of what gets done during therapy time too by taking my peoms journals and so on with me and coming up with projects of my own geared to help me with my problems. and if its something like suicidal thoughts where I don't want to put the therapist into a position of choosing not to hospitalize me or the agencys protocals that require her to do so I make sure am taking care of it the right ways - with my friends, writing and so on.

Why did I stay up all night?

I dont intentionally stay up nights my sleep cycle got messed up and there was no reason for me to do any thing about it.

my sons not here so I don't HAVE to get up at all if I don't want to so I just go with the flow. When Im tired I sleep, when Im hungry I eat, when I want to go for a walk I go. Since its just me now theres no real need for any schedules.

besides theres no need for schedules here now Without having my son to take care of I have nightmares and panic attacks, not having my son asleep in his room I worry about him, where he is, where he is sleeping tonight, did he try to run away today...and there was a whole bunch crap from a DHS case worker bla bla bla the list goes on but the jist of it is my body's sleep cycle slowly changed until I now sleep only a couple hours at a time and then Im up for a bit.

It's not too bad I still get out and do things and get things done but right now my therapist and I are starting to work on one of my therapy ideas and to do this I need to know if the pattern of the nightmare has changed as in what days are hardest and more detailed and so on so I need to get back into sleeping nights so that I can compare now to the pattern that was there before my sleep schedule started going haywire.

So this week instead of sleeping from 4am to 6 or 8 am and then again a few hours later sleep for an hour and so on .. when I woke up the first time yesterday morning I made myself stay up so that by 10:30 I was ready to start my bedtime routine (long bath and relaxation music and sleeping) It sort of worked I fell asleep with the tape my therapist made me around 12 and woke up at little after 4 then I used the tape again and fell back to sleep by 530 and woke up at around 8. then I stayed up all day today.

Tonight its almost 8:30pm and Im ready for sleep but am going to stay up until 10-11. if this works by the weekend I will be back on my normal sleeping schedule I was when I made the last charting of the nightmare and starting next week I can start logging in the nightmare patterns Which will tell me if anything has changed how and why.

this will give my therapist and I a starting point for the therapy plan we are starting to work on - using relaxations techniques (also otherwise known as self hypnosis, or dissociation) to find out the content of the nighmare because I have no memory of the content after a certain point but wake up in panics. Do I recommend others to try this - not without their therapist help and they need to have complete trust in their therapist judgement and the therapist needs to be completely comfortable using various relaxation techniques.

Hey MYSELF thanks for explaining that to me..I have no need for a schedule either and so I go to bed at like 3-5 AM and get up 12 or 3 pm....Sorry on your nightmares I suffer or have PTSD but am one of the rare lucky ones I do not have bad dreams often..its rare.

Can I ask a question? If there are folks like me out there who cannot call their counselor in an emergency, and cannot afford to go to the ER....what exactly do they do to handle the situation? I do have some things I do to deal with it (go for a walk, play solitaire online, crochet, etc.) but sometimes I sure wish I had better coping ideas. I don't know. This is hard. Thanks for listening.

Take care,
ErinBear

Here are some free hotlines:
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline 1-800-273-TALK (1-800-273-8255)

Yellow Ribbon Suicide Prevention Program 1-800-SUICIDE (1-800-784-2433)

Suicide & Crisis Hotline 1-800-999-9999

National Adolescent Suicide Hotline 1-800-621-4000

The Trevor Helpline (specializing in gay and lesbian youth suicide prevention) 1-800-850-8078

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Actually, those seem like pretty good coping ideas to me. I am not in a good position to give advice about S.I., but what I do to calm myself down is go for a run or bike ride, bake something (sometimes myself! ), or end up here or at another one of my internet forums.

some of us are keeping track of our cutting and coping tools for it on the thread - heres to doing it together - in the self injury message boards those coping tools come in real handy for my suicidal thoughts too. having thoughts of suicide IS having thoughts and urges of self harm so feel free to keep track along with us on that thread. I ask everyone that is joining that thread that you keep the posts at the positive point of view of fighting it and positive coping tools in other words no posting actions/plans for actually committing suicide while posting and vents that could trigger others who are coming to the thread just to read the coping tools but cant (or don't want to) read the down side of it without engaging in the cutting and suicide actions. There is another thread in the self injury called - venting about cutting. Feel free to use that when needing to vent on your suicidal urges its marked by trigger Icon and the word cutting in the title subject line is there so others know it may contain graphics and can read or not at their safety. Take care.

Thank you LMO

caught your pm and pm back atcha thanks

hi ErinBear , Everybody this is a good forum. My fiance committed suicide in 94. The journey since has been long and hard. When"that"thought creeps in as it often does i have learned to realize that it is a symptom. It isn't REAl and it Will pass. I know I have to pick up the phone. That was a scary one to learn. Just hearing a voice or reading something like this forum shifts me. For the longest time at work or wherever I was i would do it. Scary! Most times I just state that I'm in a bad spot right now and please talk to me about any thing for a minute. Most of my friends are supportive and the ones that aren't I file under" not available right now." Just hearing a voice is a lifeline. i too try walking but lately i have no energy. So back to small steps. Regular Sleep, Nutrition, and walks. I'm also reading all these posts. Makes me feel humble. thank you all for sharing

Thanks, Lmo, for the numbers - good to have for me and for others, I'm sure.....I appreciate it!

Take care,
ErinBear

Hi Myself,

Thanks for the posting - it's good to have ideas to keep one's self safe and be working towards that, and like you, I'm a believer in keeping that positive. So good for you. And good coping skills tend to translate pretty well between difficulties, I think! Thanks again.

Take care,
ErinBear

Hi Froggie,

I'm so sorry to hear about your fiance's suicide. That must have been so incredibly difficult. I'm glad you're here with us in the forum, and that you are working to take good care of yourself. It sounds like you've figured out some good coping skills for yourself, too, with taking walks when you can, and also looking out for your health....getting good sleep and nutrition are really important, as you say. I'm also glad you have the support of friends. Have you talked with a counselor about what happened? It sounds like quite a difficult thing to go through, and that your fiance's death is still troubling you quite a bit. Thinking of you and wishing you well....take good care of you....

Take care,
ErinBear

Thank you and you're welcome

I think one of the main things about getting THROUGH those feelings is a PLAN for distraction. The book The Courage to Heal has a section about this.. and suggests many different types of things, and suggests making a long list for yourself.

On a list put things that are "comfort" items or activities... things that generally help you to feel better.

It might be grab your favorite stuffed animal or team throw/blanket. Have a comfort basket already made up... for snacking, hot bath soak, or activity...

An agreement signed by both you and someone who cares about you... and if IF you feel you have no one, then sign it with the ER nurse or social worker, that you will do xx things when feeling so bad. If you have a predetermined "safe spot" in your home, or somewhere (like a library?) that you can go to when feeling suicidal, that is also a benefit.

Putting the phone numbers for hotlines, and the local help, ER etc are good. My church also has a minster on duty who wears a pager and answers no matter what time (they rotate this around between ministers.) Does your house of worship have such help available?

Along with things to do when you're feeling unsafe, there should also be a list of things you agree with yourself to NOT do. What goes on that list are things that would make an attempt easier... if you are considering running the car in the garage, then you would put on your list that you will not go into the garage at all. If you think you will use medicine, then you state that you will not take more than the normal dose of pills.

Writing things down, dating, signing them with another is useful to read when your thoughts are of only one thing. Often, reading an agreement can prevent further action... something your mind can focus on, and if for no other reason than you said you would give yourself another chance, will stay safe right now.

BTW most of the population has suicidal ideation during their lifetime, this is normal. By realizing that what you are currently going through might be overwhelming you, and not overreacting to that idea, you can continue on...

Stay safe.

LOL You a mind reader or you know me well.. My courage to heal text and workbook is right at the head of my bed on the shelf within reach and have been doing some in it for exactly this. and have been thinking its time to bet back into biking to the library rain or shine.

Comfort basket - My doll, cat (live one), my favorite comforter, mug of hot chocolate, my journal, drawing supplies, emergency contact list, are all there with in reach too.

Definately staying safe here.

I think my T just has the 911 number and an 24/7 assesment number that a person can call. As for being able to call her, she has a voice mail and works out of two different offices. So, she probably doesn't get the chance to check messages constantly. Also, I would hate to call in the middle of someone else's therapy session. I found myself thinking about that during my course on the ethics in counseling. That would be unfair to the other client. So, if the client is in need of mmediate attention going somewhere that is set up for that is best.
Also, I think one can not expect a therapist to be able to be interrupted during vacations and sleeping. Suicidal clients is one of the most stressful clients that a T can have. The liability issue is best dealt with by doing a good assesment for suicide risk and keeping good records.
As for talking about the subject of suicidal thoughts with my T.
First session/assesment
I mentioned a thought of jumping in a river that I live near by while walking to meet the bus to go to school.
T: Do you have any plans?
Me: No. I don't want to.
She lost interest and moved on. I was releaved by her lack of an over reaction.
EAP (Employee Assistance Program)
I mentioned the same thought while trying to get permission to talk to a counselor.
EAP: Do you feel safe tonight?
She asks me a question similar to this one three times. I made a joke that my cat is not going to attack me. She made me feel as if a single thought of suicide meant that I had to be suicidal. I have never been suicidal. I just have odd images of killing myself pop up when I am home alone. I don't know why but they are easy to get rid of. Besides, I am good on controling my behavior. I just have some trouble with my emotions and thoughts. I suspect that suicide hotlines might be less annoying-- I hope. I sure didn't like my EAP's reaction.
I think my brain uses those kinds of thoughts as a way to say, " I am feeling overwhelmed."
As for suicidal thoughts being a way to hurt someone or get attention. When I was in high school, I would sometimes try to hurt my parents by saying a suicidal comment. But other times, I would make a comment and forget what I said. I would know that it was a suicidal statement instead of a negative statement by how my parents would react. I have never figured out how/why I did that. I am glad that I don't do that now.
Obviously, I think a client should be allowed to discuss thoughts of suicide during therapy. I think I can talk about that. However, I am not entirely comfortable about discussing that much. But, I suspect it will come up because I tend to ramble about what ever is bothering /has been bothering me that period between sessions.