Just Need to Share This (possible trigger)

So I WANT to contact my T and ask her what to do about this... but I'm trying to handle this situation without her. I'm trying to reach out to other people (here and in RL) so as to not be overly dependent on T. Ok, so here's the situation:

I've been friends with this woman for about 4 months. There are aspects of the friendship I genuinely enjoy. However, she has romantic feelings for me and I do not return them. They make me very, very uncomfortable. She also started contacting me way more than I can handle and she makes comments (about my appearance, etc) that I feel cross the line. Things seem to be escalating. Today, she gave me an extravegant gift for my birthday. The gift is nice and a part of me wants the gift, but I feel uncomfortable accepting it from her. It makes me feel "yucky." However, in the moment, I was unable to say anything but "thank-you." Now, after having more time to think about it, it feels like accepting the gift was the wrong thing to do; part of me feels I should return it to her. However, if I do that, I know I would hurt her feelings. She also told me (during my birthday dinner) that she has a history of suicide attempts and I am her only friend. That made me extremely uncomfortable. It feels like she is guilting me into being her friend-- and it feels as though she thinks I might change my mind and start to see her as more than a friend (if she gives me gifts, does favors for me, etc). I don't want these things, though. And, the more time I spend with her, the more I feel like she is "creepy" and "stalker-ish." On the surface, everything she does seems nice-- gifts, e-mails, get well cards, etc. However, they're too much and they make me uncomfortable. I think I need to cut ties with her in order to protect myself, but I'm worried that if I do cut ties, she's going to have a nervous breakdown and possibly attempt suicide. I don't know what to do. I'm also upset because I don't think it's fair that she's putting me in this position at such a horrible time for me. I'm really sick, the doctors can't figure out what's wrong, and I don't want to spend my birthday and my (too short and too limited) therapy sessions talking about her, as opposed to the things I need to talk about for ME to make ME better. Anyway, I apologize for putting this all out there, but I just needed to share it-- keeping it inside was making me almost physically ill. I'm trying so hard not to contact T! I would feel so pathetic if I had to contact T on my birthday to talk about this situation! I know there probably isn't a "right" answer, I just need support right now. I just need something to hold me over until my next T session! Thank-you!

If a friend has suicidal feelings, that is not your fault. If someone is really determined to die, no one can stop them.

If you are her only friend, that is not your fault either. You haven't stopped her having other friends, have you?

In your position, I would want to say: "I'm sorry you are feeling so bad, and I do care about you. But I can't be your only friend, let alone your lover. I suggest you get some professional help."

I don't know if I would be able to say that, but that's the direction I would be leaning.

I wonder if you could talk to T about how to scale back this friendship to a level that is comfortable to you. Cutting ties might be the outcome, but it might be wise to make a gradual move toward that. And it might turn out that if you don't allow this person to be manipulative and dependent, she might move on or it might create a nice friendship.

If she truly has a history of suicide attempts, then she has had therapy, or even currently is in therapy. This is moving too fast even for a friendship. I usually take 3 months to know if I'm even going to be friends with someone IRL; sharing my birthday is a whole nuther level. But if she was open with you about her feelings, I would say to be open with her - that your feelings haven't gone where hers have gone, and that you are too preoccupied with other things (your health) right now to get involved. This is true; these are your boundaries. Tell her you didn't expect such an extravagant gift, and aren't in a position to be able to reciprocate, so you feel you should give it back to her, even tho you really liked it. You choose your boundaries and stick to them; that's all this is about. I totally understand your panic, but it's just this invasion.

Hi,

I know that feeling of wanting to keep our precious therapy sessions to talk about us and not other people, it took me 18 months to realise that it would be useful to talk about my divorce, up until then I refused to waste my money talking about "him" - but I now see my response to the divorce was so very relevant to talk about.

I am sorry you are in such a difficult situation at the moment, it seems like this person is overstepping your boundaries and then saying things that appear to be stopping you in maintaining these boundaries. But IMO these things are very important to discuss with your T, not her behaviour but your response to it - IMO therapy is getting to know ourselves deeply and I think this sounds like a potential significant learning opportunity for you.

Ultimately we are the ones responsible for our own lives, so this person must take responsibiity for hers - it is absolutely not anything to do with you how she may choose to respond to boundaries that you may choose to put in place.

I think for me, if I was in a position where someone was threatening suicide, I would inform the mental health services and / or police and let them deal with it.

Good luck and remember you have every right not to spend time with this person. Soup

However, she has romantic feelings for me and I do not return them. They make me very, very uncomfortable.

You need to tell her you do not feel that way. It will be hard because you don't want to hurt her feelings, you are setting a boundary it may stop the other things she is doing.

Things seem to be escalating. Today, she gave me an extravegant gift for my birthday. The gift is nice and a part of me wants the gift, but I feel uncomfortable accepting it from her. It makes me feel "yucky." However, in the moment, I was unable to say anything but "thank-you." Now, after having more time to think about it, it feels like accepting the gift was the wrong thing to do; part of me feels I should return it to her. However, if I do that, I know I would hurt her feelings.

A friend giving a gift is fine but when you have only known someone for 4 months and it is extravegant. I think you need to explain why you can not except it, she maybe hurt but you have to think about how you feel, "It makes me feel yucky".

She also told me (during my birthday dinner) that she has a history of suicide attempts and I am her only friend. That made me extremely uncomfortable. It feels like she is guilting me into being her friend-- and it feels as though she thinks I might change my mind and start to see her as more than a friend (if she gives me gifts, does favors for me, etc).

She may or may not realize it but she is manipulating you. With a friendship that is so new, there are things most people would not disclose because they fear being rejected. So for her to actually say she has a history of Sui attempts and you're her only friend, you need to step back and say that you can not be her only friend.

I don't want these things, though. And, the more time I spend with her, the more I feel like she is "creepy" and "stalker-ish." On the surface, everything she does seems nice-- gifts, e-mails, get well cards, etc. However, they're too much and they make me uncomfortable. I think I need to cut ties with her in order to protect myself, but I'm worried that if I do cut ties, she's going to have a nervous breakdown and possibly attempt suicide.

She is not a friend if you do not feel comfortable with her. You need to think about yourself and your well being. You are responsible for YOU and no one else.

If it is easier write what you would like to say to your friend if you can't tell her face to face. I know I would have difficulty and would write a letter. No one wants to hurt others feelings but you need to focus on you and this friendship is hurting you.

Take care of yourself and know that people will listen to you and try to help you.

LoneWolfie

I have been in a similar situation and I know how it feels!

I completely agree with the advice given by the other members of PC. You have to confront her. You can explain to her in a gentle and nice way that you like her as a friend but don't see her the way see does. That you feel awkward and uncomfortable with her extravagant gifts and that you feel as if she's pressuring you to feel things that you can't by giving you all these gifts. Plus, that you are in a very difficult phase in your life and that your priority is to take care of yourself. Don't just stop talking to her without first explaining her the reasons, because it might make things worse. If you explain her everything that you feel with honesty, I think she will appreciate it. And if she doesn't, it is her problem; honestly, making others feel guilty and sorry is a method often used by weak people who see themselves only as victims. Maybe she saw that you are in a difficult period in your life and is taking advantage of your "weakness". But you can't take the blame for that, it's not fair to yourself.

Take care!

This is a very very tricky situation to be in. From the outside looking in, it's very easy to see how she might be slowly pulling you in through subtle manipulations.

Of course, her intentions may be completely benign, but, like you, I would be very suspicious. Trust your gut here.

Getting rid of a stalker is a really really hard thing to do and when you return the gift - that will be very telling because it might be the first whiff of tangible rejection she gets from you.

If she responds in an over the top manner, then you've got a problem I think.

I think your therapist will likely give you a lot of the same advice that you have received thus far on these boards, and every bit of it is true.

My advice, I guess would be complementary, but a little different.

After you clearly communicate with her to cease and desist (and it may come to the all or nothing like that), you will need to document every single subsequent contact from then on - all calls to voice mail etc...

I also think you need to do some homework and parse out exactly what you are dealing with here.

What do you think she is capable of doing? Does she have a police record? What were her past relationships like? How did they end? What were the circumstances around her previous suicide attempts? Have you mentioned other romantic interests around her? How did she react?

Again, I think the gut in these situations is a very very powerful tool and you've got to protect yourself on all levels (emotionally, physically etc...) from this person.

It's better to be safe than sorry in ellie's world. My friends (and my therapist actually) joke that I should work for FEMA as an adviser because I always jump right to worst case scenario....

However, I'm only paranoid if I'm wrong.

Thank-you everyone for the extremely helpful feedback and support. You guys have made me feel so much better and so much less alone. I no longer feel the need to contact my T now, so I am extremely greatful! Now, on to specifics:

Can't Explain: Thank-you for pointing out things out so clearly. You're absolutely right, As for suggesting she get some professional help-- I did that! I even offered to ask my T for a recommendation to a colleague, but she refused the help.

Echoes: I do think scaling back the friendship would be a good first step. It feels safer and more comfortable than cutting things off cold turkey. I don't think I could ever have a nice friendship with this person, though. (see below for why).

hankster: You make a good point about the friendship moving too fast. I have been trying to hold it back, but I've been struggling with that. I did, however, tell her point blank that I do not and will not have romantic feelings for her. I told her that very early on. And, up until 2 weeks ago, I was in a committed relationship with someone else. She has only known me as an attached person. Despite this, she has continued to give me uncomfortable compliments, to which I have explicitly said "please don't say X. that makes me uncomfortable." She has not stopped, though. Then, because I did not want to invite her to the birthday dinner I'm having with my good friends, I accepted her invitation to have dinner with her the night before (in retrospect, a mistake).

soup: Thank-you for parsing out that what I should be discussing with T is MY reaction to them. I know (and T knows) that I struggle with confrontation and standing my ground, so this is yet another example that I probably should bring up. I know it's something I need to work on but it's extremely difficult for me.

lonewolfie: You're absolutely right-- if I don't feel comfortable with her, then she is not a friend. You're also spot on in that she is manipulating me. I think she's doing it unintentionally and doesn't realize it, though, which makes it harder for me to confront her about it. However, as I just said in my response to hankster, I have told her I do not have romantic feelings for her. I have also set some boundaries, like I am not comfortable with hugs. Unfortunately, there have been times she has had too much to drink and then proceeded to basically smother me with hugs. I've told her afterwards, when she's sober, that I felt that was disrespectful. She said the words "I'm sorry" but I didn't feel that she was actually sorry.

harvest moon: you wrote "making others feel guilty and sorry is a method often used by weak people who see themselves only as victims." That sums up the situation perfectly. She does see herself as a victim- she constantly tells me about how other people have wronged her and does not see her own (fairly obvious) errors in these situations. But no amount of trying to point out her own mistakes ever helps. I think she also uses these stories to make me feel sorry for her, and it has worked up to a point. I do feel guilty and sorry for her. But, as you and others have pointed out, I need to start putting myself first.

elliemay: I think you're absolutely right. In fact, from the situation i've gotten myself into it may not seem like, but I've actually published in the area of stalker education and prevention. I'm very aware of the possible risks I face, and the signs to look out for. I think that is why I'm taking this situation so seriously. I also found out this week that this person has a restraining order against her, put in place by a previous friend. Notice I did not say girlfirend or partner-- just friend. Following the restraining order, she continued contact for a period of time. Then, she decied to get this former friend's name tattooed on her arm. In this situation, she obviously had romantic feelings for the woman, knew the woman did not feel the same way, and continued a "stalker friendship" until the woman couldn't take it anymore. I wish I could contact this former friend/victim for information, but I don't know who she is (nor would I want to upset her). But finding out this information has created a big shift in how seriously I'm taking the matter.

As for mentioning other romantic interests around her, like I said above, she knows that I was in a relationship-- from the time I met her until 2 weeks ago. Her response has been to constantly ask about my girlfriend, offer to help me do nice things for my girlfriend, say how lucky my girlfriend is, and mention my girlfriend every 2 seconds. It felt extremely intrusive-- it felt like she was inserting herself into my relationship. Now that my relationship is over, she's offered to take me to bars to meet a new girlfriend and sent me an e-mail about dating sites to meet new people. I've told her to back off-- I just went through a break-up and I'm sick. It's nowhere close to the right time to be meeting anyone else. Moreover, I still get the feeling that she is doing this to "throw me off"-- to let me think she's ok with just being a friend when she really wants to be more. Or, maybe, she's doing it so she can feel more like a victim-- like "see, I'm helping her find love even if that love is not with me." Either way, it's not helpful. It is not "being a friend" because a friend would be paying attention to me and doing what was helpful for me-- not pushing things on me that I don't want.

Hey,

It is likely this woman does this with most of the relationships in her life - becomes too intense- and it's why she has trouble having long lasting friendships with other people.
It sounds like if this goes unaddressed it may get worse and it's already having a very negitive impact on you. I know you don't want to hurt her feelings but everyone has the right to have personal boundaries and for others to respect them and it sounds like this woman is crossing your boundaries and leaving you feeling extremely uncomfortable. You have to tell her that you are not in a position to handle such an intense friendship and although you appreciate the kind gestures, you feel it is too much and would like to take a step back from the friendship.

If you know anyone related to this woman you could perhaps tell them to be aware that she may be feeling vulnerable and to keep an eye on her but if not, this is not your responsibility. Any suicidal actions she takes are her own and telling you that along with - you are my own friend- put you in a very difficult position, which you should not be in.

You must take care of yourself here hun, even if it hurts her feelings.

It is difficult to be placed in that situation. I was in one when I was in college. It was very difficult because I did care to help her as a person.

What I had to do was allow myself to be present with her in safe public places, while remaining very honest. In fact, I actually was in therapy at the time and used that relationship as a way to practice being the type of person my T was for me.
So I would be clear about things and then ask her to tell me what my words brought up for her. Honestly most of the time I just made her mad at me, but her obsession kept her from runnung out the door. So she would stay and tell me what she felt. And that was EXACTLY what I was trying to get her to do.

She eventually figured out that I was not going to "dump" her as a human the way many others had done just because she was highly expressive. But I was also not going to change my boundary lines.

Eventually she found another woman to stalk and left me alone. She tried to make me think she was dumping me and all that stuff. I had to remind her that my feelings towards her were always the same... that I cared for her as a friend and fellow human... and that I would be there is she ever needed to talk.

About two years later I saw her around. She rushed up to me and asked for a hug. We had a ver appropriate one. And she thanked me for being there for her during that time. She told me how she knew she had a problem but noone had stuck with her in the right way long enough for her to find her own way. Now she had.

Just wanted to share that with you. It is important that you first take care of yourself. After that, do what you feel is right to do.