[mcl6136]

All,

TRIGGER ABOUT QUITTING T ALTOGETHER

I've been down this road so many times with what Ts view as my "hypersensitivity". ...

Without going into huge detail here (internet feels risky today), I think it's "safe" to say that I've burned out another T. I pushed back pretty hard with my T yesterday...when I thought things were way off course.

I have a huge issue with feeling like my t is incredibly pessimistic about my capacity to change, be resilient, be empowered and I have said so. And sticking up for myself, in this relationship, too energetically feels like I'm crossing some kind of line.

Example:

T said, you're surviving at your job. I was like...pardon me? I've put new systems in place, getting along with new leaders, doing creative stuff there....what??? Surviving? I'm actually thriving!

it seems really perverse that I should feel like i have to defend how I'm doing....and build a case for myself.

And then, it seemed the session went downhill to the point where I said..what will happen during our last session? T said, well, you'll tell me what you got out of this compared to your goals and we will basically say goodbye.

i was like....gulp! but honestly it felt like a big relief.

And now, in the cold light of morning, I don't see why I should go back....

I'm feeling really slammed right now. But i honestly don't feel like I want to trundle in there next week for more of the same.

I talked to t this morning and said, well, I think we wore each other out.
That's what I feel like I have done with this T. And with others. By insisting that I am accurately reflected, and understood ..rather than just glossing it over.

Part of me feels like not going will be kind of pulling a no-show but on another level, I don't feel like this would really benefit me at all. I don't think I want to put myself through this wringer again.

I'm bummed because I feel like things were going well.....until I brought up issues of Ts interaction with ME....My problems between me and family...good discussions, me and money,also good, but between me and T...it's a disaster.

I think I'm quitting. I guess I AM hypersensitive. But I feel like acting like everything is cool when it is not is no way to go.

I think it will be less of a disappointment than a relief. Like when you quit hitting your head against the wall. It feels good when you stop.

[unaluna]

Umm - why is it all about you? I know, funny question to ask. But why don't you care about your T's feelings? He asked about your job, he got it kind of wrong, and all you did was jump down his throat about how he is not remembering and reflecting you perfectly - but why DID he get it wrong? Isn't this a fairly new r/s? (And weren't we going to talk about our two mutual friends?) If work IS going so well, then we don't dwell on it much, it certainly isn't worth criticizing T for - why would you yell at T about a happy part of your life? How can that help him make it better? I could accept yelling at T for a cruddy part of your life, but this might be hard for a T to understand? Thinking out loud here - it didn't sound like you were trying to share credit with him for your success. So what was/is going on? I can't figure this out, except a certain sexual occurrence comes to mind (not trying to be coarse, not sure how it's related!). Hope I didn't offend, i'm just puzzled by what's going on, as it seems you are also.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by hankster

Umm - why is it all about you? I know, funny question to ask. But why don't you care about your T's feelings? He asked about your job, he got it kind of wrong, and all you did was jump down his throat about how he is not remembering and reflecting you perfectly - but why DID he get it wrong? Isn't this a fairly new r/s? (And weren't we going to talk about our two mutual friends?) If work IS going so well, then we don't dwell on it much, it certainly isn't worth criticizing T for - why would you yell at T about a happy part of your life? How can that help him make it better? I could accept yelling at T for a cruddy part of your life, but this might be hard for a T to understand? Thinking out loud here - it didn't sound like you were trying to share credit with him for your success. So what was/is going on? I can't figure this out, except a certain sexual occurrence comes to mind (not trying to be coarse, not sure how it's related!). Hope I didn't offend, i'm just puzzled by what's going on, as it seems you are also.

I do think it is all about the client and one does not need to worry about the therapist or the therapist's feelings. And why would a client who had success need to share credit with a therapist? Just another approach.

[unaluna]

Because mcl says, "...until I brought up issues of Ts interaction with ME...". MY feelings were never considered, so I never considered anyone else's feelings. I don't like to make my cute little T pout! Seriously, I need to learn me some people skills. I'm getting a little tired of being so alone.

(((((((mcl))))))))

I have absolutely no words of wisdom, but wanted to send some hugs.

I guess I do want to say that I think it's really important to be able to talk about "T and Me". And I guess also to remind you that it's important to fact-check with T. YOU feel like you've burned out T, but did T say that? Maybe it's worth exploring?

Anyway, here are your hugs

[KazzaX]

Its a toughie because the T's feelings aren't supposed to come into it (from what I've read).

But to think realistically - does your T have a lot of clients? Could she be burnt out with her caseload at the moment? It might not even have anything to do with you - maybe she's just having a tough time with some other clients - sort of having one of those months where everything goes wrong? Cuz it happens now and again. And if you are hypersensitive, then you are going to pick up on this quickly!!

I'm just thinking back to before my breakdown when I used to work in drug and alcohol. Every so often there would be a month where 5-6 clients would just relapse out of the blue, all separately - it was just bad luck really. "one of those months" we used to call it. And so some workers would get stressed because now we have the fallout from these relapses (we had a special unit for the intoxicated clients, and so we suddenly had 5-6 people coming down from the drugs, causing havoc and destruction in there, waiting for a spot to open in the detox section). So i can see how the stress of the worker could be construed as something different by the other clients. The worker was stressed in general from this whole saga, NOT stressed at the other clients.

I'm not sure if what I'm saying makes any sense but I thought I would present to you an "outside the box" way of describing it, lol.

PS: you should have seen that intoxicated persons unit after they went off to detox. omg. Looked like world war 3 had happened in there!!

[pbutton]

Originally Posted by mcl6136

I have a huge issue with feeling like my t is incredibly pessimistic about my capacity to change, be resilient, be empowered and I have said so. And sticking up for myself, in this relationship, too energetically feels like I'm crossing some kind of line.

Maybe this is the next topic you should discuss in therapy.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by mcl6136

I talked to t this morning and said, well, I think we wore each other out.

How did she respond?

How long have you been seeing this T? I am recalling correctly that it hasn't been too long? If that's the case, I think that might be why the discussion of your interactions and relationship was disappointing. It just takes time to build that. I do think it is worth having a T who "gets" you, and I hope you will hold on to that goal. I definitely think the T being pessimistic is a perception to share. You said you spoke to your T about that. Did she agree? I think a T who is disempowering would not be very therapeutic for me. I also think some people's language is more cautious than others--they are understated. So when your T said you were surviving at work, maybe she meant you are doing OK. It takes time to get to know each other! Or maybe she did mean to not pump you up too much. But why?

You said up until the discussion about your and your T's interactions that it was going well. So it sounds like there may be quite a bit of good there to salvage. I think it merits further discussion with your T. Why did the discussion go down hill when the topic was switched? Does your T also think that is what happened?

I think having a curious attitude can help in cases like this. When your T says you're surviving at work, instead of rushing to defend yourself and get into a disagreement about how you actually are doing at work, make it about process and feelings. "When you used the word 'surviving' just now, I felt like you don't think I'm doing too well at work--just getting by. I felt hurt, because I think I've been doing really well lately, and it was hard to have you not recognize or acknowledge my success." I wonder what your T would say to that?

[CantExplain]

"Pushing back" is perfectly OK.

I'm sure T would rather have you push back than walk away!
But if not, then walking away is the right answer.

[learning1]

I think maybe I have something in common with you mcl that I tend to give too much credit to what t knows. If my t said "surviving" like yours did, I'd probably also feel a offended, though I'm not sure I'd have confidence to say anything. I think it's good you expressed yourself but I also think your t can easily be slightly off or just totally misunderstanding, so maybe try not to take him too seriously (I know it's hard to know when) and try not to let yourself feel too hurt by it. Like what Sunrise suggested- try explaining how you felt in a more detached way. You might find out there was some reason he thought you were only "surviving" and that would hurt a little, but I think more likely both you and your t would realize it was a misunderstanding of each other and you'd get to know each other better. Even if it did turn out there was some reason he meant "surviving" the way you took it (I doubt it), maybe there would be something you could learn from it. Maybe you'd learn your t isn't understanding you yet based on what you've communicated before and you might not be able to clear it up right away but I think it's okay to give him a little leeway to misunderstand. (I struggle over how much leeway.)

[learning1]

Do you struggle with feeling mooshed by your t? I feel like that. I quit t a ton of times in my 20s and early 30s, then didn't at all for 5 years, then finally I think I'm sticking with it... at least for longer than i used to do. If I want it to work it seems like I have to tolerate some of that feeling mooshed, but that doesn't sound like a good thing to do as I'm writing it here. Therapy has been helpful though. It is kind of an odd paradox since one of my issues is not being assertive enough that I have to be so... humble and vulnerable and not immediately express my feelings or quit when I'm hurt... to get something out of therapy.

[SoupDragon]

Feeling like this and not wanting to go sounds like an excellent reason to go. T always tells me not to take a break in response to a feeling and I think he is spot on with that advice (although it is hard to see it at the time).

I am trying to take T out of the equation some what in my sessions at the moment and purely concentrate on what my feelings in response to him tell me about me. Why do I get irritated with him etc.

[CantExplain]

I think this thread has some connection with my own feelings that T has trivialised my pain.

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by hankster

Umm - why is it all about you? I know, funny question to ask. But why don't you care about your T's feelings? He asked about your job, he got it kind of wrong, and all you did was jump down his throat about how he is not remembering and reflecting you perfectly - but why DID he get it wrong? Isn't this a fairly new r/s? (And weren't we going to talk about our two mutual friends?) If work IS going so well, then we don't dwell on it much, it certainly isn't worth criticizing T for - why would you yell at T about a happy part of your life? How can that help him make it better? I could accept yelling at T for a cruddy part of your life, but this might be hard for a T to understand? Thinking out loud here - it didn't sound like you were trying to share credit with him for your success. So what was/is going on? I can't figure this out, except a certain sexual occurrence comes to mind (not trying to be coarse, not sure how it's related!). Hope I didn't offend, i'm just puzzled by what's going on, as it seems you are also.

this feels really harsh actually.

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by hankster

Umm - why is it all about you? I know, funny question to ask. But why don't you care about your T's feelings? He asked about your job, he got it kind of wrong, and all you did was jump down his throat about how he is not remembering and reflecting you perfectly - but why DID he get it wrong? Isn't this a fairly new r/s? (And weren't we going to talk about our two mutual friends?) If work IS going so well, then we don't dwell on it much, it certainly isn't worth criticizing T for - why would you yell at T about a happy part of your life? How can that help him make it better? I could accept yelling at T for a cruddy part of your life, but this might be hard for a T to understand? Thinking out loud here - it didn't sound like you were trying to share credit with him for your success. So what was/is going on? I can't figure this out, except a certain sexual occurrence comes to mind (not trying to be coarse, not sure how it's related!). Hope I didn't offend, i'm just puzzled by what's going on, as it seems you are also.

I'm really mystified...a certain sexual occurence?? What do you mean?

Oddly enough, I share credit with this T all the time!!!

and who says I don't care about my Ts feelings?

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by KazzaX

Its a toughie because the T's feelings aren't supposed to come into it (from what I've read).

But to think realistically - does your T have a lot of clients? Could she be burnt out with her caseload at the moment? It might not even have anything to do with you - maybe she's just having a tough time with some other clients - sort of having one of those months where everything goes wrong? Cuz it happens now and again. And if you are hypersensitive, then you are going to pick up on this quickly!!

I'm just thinking back to before my breakdown when I used to work in drug and alcohol. Every so often there would be a month where 5-6 clients would just relapse out of the blue, all separately - it was just bad luck really. "one of those months" we used to call it. And so some workers would get stressed because now we have the fallout from these relapses (we had a special unit for the intoxicated clients, and so we suddenly had 5-6 people coming down from the drugs, causing havoc and destruction in there, waiting for a spot to open in the detox section). So i can see how the stress of the worker could be construed as something different by the other clients. The worker was stressed in general from this whole saga, NOT stressed at the other clients.

I'm not sure if what I'm saying makes any sense but I thought I would present to you an "outside the box" way of describing it, lol.

PS: you should have seen that intoxicated persons unit after they went off to detox. omg. Looked like world war 3 had happened in there!!

thank you so m

so....thanks for the out-of-box thinking, which you present without inserting your own agenda, just offering it for my reflection.

And it makes a lot of sense.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by mcl6136

this feels really harsh actually.

sorry. I think sunrise and later posters put it better than I did, less harshly, more helpfully. your saying you wanted to be mirrored a certain way or else it wouldn't be good enough - that's what I was wondering, what was going on, what brought that on? you DID open up at that point, maybe that's a good answer to the question, what is opening up. IME, ANY direct answer hurts, blowing wind on a burn.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by hankster

..wanted to be mirrored a certain way or else it wouldn't be good enough...

I can relate to that. That's my issue right now.

[SallyBrown]

Read all of this as spoken gently :

I talked to t this morning and said, well, I think we wore each other out.
That's what I feel like I have done with this T. And with others. By insisting that I am accurately reflected, and understood ..rather than just glossing it over

.

Isn't there something in between that, though? Between insisting on being accurately reflected and understood, and glossing it over? It seems very black and white to me... correct me if I'm wrong, but what I get from that is, "Either T understands, or he doesn't. And if he doesn't, I either insist that he adopt my understanding, or I gloss over it."

Me, I'm pretty sensitive to being misunderstood, so I can really relate to this in some ways. It's probably one of the biggest consistent sources of conflict between me and my T. When he doesn't understand something it can be, at times, unbearable to me. Our misunderstandings can go from "over in one second" to "drawn out and excruciating".

Still... are you sure you're not quitting to avoid having to confront the likely myriad misunderstandings that are bound to occur between you and T? I know you said your T seems pessimistic, so that can kind of put a cloud over everything, but do you guys really talk about that? Does T offer any assurance that either he's not pessimistic, or has he offered to drop certain behaviors that express pessimism?

And I guess I maybe feel a little bit of what hankster was saying, but not so much about T's feelings... I'm just having a hard time seeing where T IS in all of this. All I can tell from what you said is, that T said you were "surviving" instead of "thriving" -- but I don't know if you followed up with what T actually meant by that. I also know what T said about what your last session would be like. I don't know, however, how T has responded to your telling him you think he's pessimistic, how T responded to your telling him you're actually thriving, whether T agreed that you wore each other out, or what happened when you brought up your interacting with T. I just know you find these all to be disastrous.

I guess in a way, I feel a little like you are trying to make the reader of this post feel how you're feeling and accurately understand/reflect you, but for me I feel like I'm getting walloped by phrases like "put through the wringer" and "feeling really slammed" and "burned out" and "disaster"... yet all I can tell that happened in this appointment is that T used the wrong word to describe your job, and that you discussed what your last appointment would be like. And I feel a little like if I don't agree with you, I'm going to make you mad. Even though I don't even feel like I CAN agree with you, other than just saying your T was wrong, because I don't have enough information to do so, or even just enough information to empathize and validate.

By the way this is kinda out of nowhere by now, but if your T calls you "hypersensitive", then he sucks.

I think I'm quitting. I guess I AM hypersensitive. But I feel like acting like everything is cool when it is not is no way to go.

And again, I feel like there is something in between acting like everything is cool, and quitting. Resolving misunderstandings is hard and sometimes REALLY awful, but I think it will help more than quitting and hoping to find someone out there who will always accurately reflect your feelings.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

I can relate to that. That's my issue right now.

I always thought I "got" how other people were feeling - now I sit across from my T, or my friends, and most of the time I have no idea what they're even talking about. It's very hard to really listen and try to see where someone is going. I feel like I "recognize" a lot of people here, like I recognize their scent, their manner of being, but could I do this thing you're asking? Or do they do it for me? Every once in a while, somebody says something. I guess the thing that got me most today was the guy in Relationships & Communication who said who asked why is he alone, I could totally relate to that. Great.

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by SallyBrown

Read all of this as spoken gently :

.

Isn't there something in between that, though? Between insisting on being accurately reflected and understood, and glossing it over? It seems very black and white to me... correct me if I'm wrong, but what I get from that is, "Either T understands, or he doesn't. And if he doesn't, I either insist that he adopt my understanding, or I gloss over it."

Me, I'm pretty sensitive to being misunderstood, so I can really relate to this in some ways. It's probably one of the biggest consistent sources of conflict between me and my T. When he doesn't understand something it can be, at times, unbearable to me. Our misunderstandings can go from "over in one second" to "drawn out and excruciating".

Still... are you sure you're not quitting to avoid having to confront the likely myriad misunderstandings that are bound to occur between you and T? I know you said your T seems pessimistic, so that can kind of put a cloud over everything, but do you guys really talk about that? Does T offer any assurance that either he's not pessimistic, or has he offered to drop certain behaviors that express pessimism?

And I guess I maybe feel a little bit of what hankster was saying, but not so much about T's feelings... I'm just having a hard time seeing where T IS in all of this. All I can tell from what you said is, that T said you were "surviving" instead of "thriving" -- but I don't know if you followed up with what T actually meant by that. I also know what T said about what your last session would be like. I don't know, however, how T has responded to your telling him you think he's pessimistic, how T responded to your telling him you're actually thriving, whether T agreed that you wore each other out, or what happened when you brought up your interacting with T. I just know you find these all to be disastrous.

I guess in a way, I feel a little like you are trying to make the reader of this post feel how you're feeling and accurately understand/reflect you, but for me I feel like I'm getting walloped by phrases like "put through the wringer" and "feeling really slammed" and "burned out" and "disaster"... yet all I can tell that happened in this appointment is that T used the wrong word to describe your job, and that you discussed what your last appointment would be like. And I feel a little like if I don't agree with you, I'm going to make you mad. Even though I don't even feel like I CAN agree with you, other than just saying your T was wrong, because I don't have enough information to do so, or even just enough information to empathize and validate.

By the way this is kinda out of nowhere by now, but if your T calls you "hypersensitive", then he sucks.


And again, I feel like there is something in between acting like everything is cool, and quitting. Resolving misunderstandings is hard and sometimes REALLY awful, but I think it will help more than quitting and hoping to find someone out there who will always accurately reflect your feelings.

Well, then T sucks. Cause that's the exact word that came out.

And I didn't think I was trying to MAKE the reader of this post feel anything in particular. I just wrote it because I had a really hard time in my therapy appointment.

[SallyBrown]

Originally Posted by mcl6136

Well, then T sucks. Cause that's the exact word that came out.

And I didn't think I was trying to MAKE the reader of this post feel anything in particular. I just wrote it because I had a really hard time in my therapy appointment.

Yep. Your T sucks . I'm sorry about that, if my T ever called me hypersensitive I would be FURIOUS.

Also, I don't think you were CONSCIOUSLY trying to make me feel a certain way, I'm just saying that's what reading it feels like to me. I feel overwhelmed with wanting to relate to your very negative, very urgent feelings, but feel worried that if I can't, or if I get it wrong, it's going to go very badly. But I have no feelings that you are actually sitting there crafting some sort of manipulative post.

[mcl6136]

Well, I think that's your issue.

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by treehouse

(((((((mcl))))))))

I have absolutely no words of wisdom, but wanted to send some hugs.

I guess I do want to say that I think it's really important to be able to talk about "T and Me". And I guess also to remind you that it's important to fact-check with T. YOU feel like you've burned out T, but did T say that? Maybe it's worth exploring?

Anyway, here are your hugs

thanks so much ...I had a realization when I read your post. I feel that my therapy journey, and this T, have burned me out. I'm just so tired of saying something and hearing this t's refrain....
***that's not likely to change***
Which leads me to wonder: why bother?
Your note really helped me. I agree that it's important to fact check! I once read the book, The Four Agreements. One of them is Don't Make Assumptions.

I think I need to work on this one. But your kindness today is really appreciated. I'm very blue....

I feel like I try to send out really positive energy on this board, and I feel sad..

Originally Posted by mcl6136

Example:

T said, you're surviving at your job. I was like...pardon me? I've put new systems in place, getting along with new leaders, doing creative stuff there....what??? Surviving? I'm actually thriving!

it seems really perverse that I should feel like i have to defend how I'm doing....and build a case for myself.

I think I can relate to this piece of your experience. In my version of this (I think), a friend of mine exaggerates the seriousness of some of the PTSD symptoms I experience. I feel she's pathologizing me, in a sense. Making me feel like there's something wrong with me, when I actually feel like I'm coping really well, even though it can be a struggle at times. I was thinking, I'm feeling kind of flashbacky and it's distracting to me, but I'm able to work with it and do what I need to do, I'm kind of proud of myself. And instead of hearing back something like "way to go!" or "good job", I hear something else that sounds like I'm not doing so well.

Now, what I'm not getting in your description here-- and this is probably my failure to understand-- is how your T actually responded to you raising this issue directly with her. It sounds like she didn't *get* what you were saying, and that's why you felt worn out. What I don't understand is why, or what her response actually was.

So I can get the legitimacy of the issue that you were distressed about. I'm not quite sure where that leads you, though, to feel like it's not fixable.

Anne