[learning1]

I think I go to therapy in real life to have something to talk about here, and then I come here online to get help cleaning up the mess and to get real support. I’m afraid it isn’t fair to you all for me to be asking for that on here, except for that I’m not asking anyone in particular and no one has to read it. So, I guess that’s a warning—self serving slimy mess ahead—please switch to another thread now if you’re not totally suited up in a good quality slime-resistant suit. And please don’t start worrying that your own posts are asking too much!!!, especially if you’re Granite or Tree or Stopdog or someone who doesn’t usually post on here, because I absolutely promise you are light years less self serving than this and I’ll be really upset I posted this if you start thinking that .



So therapy yesterday was pretty awful. I told t I brought a letter I had written to my sister a few years ago when a different therapist suggested it, but I hadn’t ever shown it to anyone, even my sister. Then, before I gave it to him, I told him I’ve been feeling somewhat better and I wonder how much I should keep coming to therapy, but I don’t know if I need to be talking about this stuff about my family. He encouraged me to come less often, which is the same as he usually seems to encourage me to do when we reschedule. He said his goal is for me to have what I need in real life and not be paying him for it. Of course that’s my goal too, but I wish he thought the things I’m struggling with mattered enough to be worth talking about first. He very clearly doesn’t. Maybe he's right and I should try to stop thinking about it, but I haven't yet.


The letter was about my miserable relationship with my sister and Mom growing up, and it was apologizing to my 2-years younger sister for physically fighting with her as a child. I told my t several times that I was nowhere close to being able to talk to my sister about that for real. He kept pushing really really hard to talk to her anyway. He told me his older brother used to beat him up as a kid and he wished his brother would have brought it up with him. Instead, as an adult, my t told his older brother how awful it was getting beaten up. So I don’t know if t could display his dislike of me for not apologizing to my sister much stronger.

The reason I’m nowhere close to being able to talk to my sister about it is because she has always been so close to my Mom, and I think my Mom was mean to me growing up. I can’t talk to my sister about what it was like growing up since she’d see it from my Mom’s side, and it still hurts that they didn’t respect or care about me sometimes back then. I didn’t know how to explain the reason I can’t talk to my sister to t during the session. But, I’ve told t about problems with my Mom several times, including several very explicit times in the letter. I also have said several times my sister is closer to Mom. So could t possibly not get it that that’s a problem? Or is it that he thinks my attitude about Mom isn’t fair and he dislikes me for it? Every time I bring it up he seems to ignore it or not care. Once I said that my Mom and I fought a lot growing up and it feels weird interacting with her now, since she just suddenly started being nice when I became an adult. T’s suggestion was just talk to her about what she’s interested in. If he thinks the way the fighting felt matters, he didn't tell. I told him how she got angry and yelled at me when I did something wrong during craft projects, and his comment was, “so that wasn’t resolved.” If he thinks how I felt mattered, he’s not letting on. It's more like him to point out I was lucky she did craft projects with me at all, since a lot of parents wouldn't. I think I'd be happier if she hadn't though. In the letter I said Mom was mean to me growing up, and I said I thought she didn’t like me because I was unpopular. I think I’ve told him that before. Another therapist said Mom was emotionally abusive. For some reason with that therapist I had quickly spilled the worst things I remembered Mom doing. I haven’t told a few of those things to this therapist. This t pretty much always looks at the other person’s side of everything, so I can pretty much count on him sympathizing with my Mom somewhat if I tell him.


I guess I don’t need his validation of my understanding that Mom hurt me intentionally sometimes. I know that. But I’m struggling with whether I can have an honest relationship with her now. She’s old and might not live a lot longer. I wish t could help me figure that out. I also feel stupid to beg him to see my side of it enough to help when it seems he just doesn’t like who I really am very much.


I won’t go to another therapist because I’ve already changed therapists a zillion times and I’ve put in too much time with this one to start over again. I might be able to resolve to end therapy and appreciate the things I got out of it. One of the things I could get out of it would be to trust myself and not to rely on therapy. And maybe to try not to think so much about having a great relationship with parents or therapists who don’t like me that much, when I could be doing other things. But I haven't yet.


I seem to be posting on the faith-in-therapy central website again instead . He rescheduled with me for a month from now. I'm trying to decide about asking him to meet with me sooner so I don't have to worry about it for a month. But I think it probably will get worse if I talk to him, since he always points out the other person's side of things. I'm also thinking about ending therapy like he seems to think I should. So hard to decide.

[anilam]

Once a month therapy? What's the point? I wouldn't be able to have a good trusting relationship with my T...

As for your T- I don't know. From what you have described I wouldn't bothered to spent your money (not his time- remember YOU are paying him for his services) on him.

However, I think the advice to work on relationship with your mom is good. Parents, like it or not, are really important in our lives. Even though she wasn't good mother when you were growing up she can be now. Seems like she is willing to work on that with you.

Learning, I'm in a bad place in my T. journey right now... so I don't think I'm a good person to give objective comments... but I wanted you to know that I heard you... that I'll be thinking about you... and hoping you can come to a place where you find some peace about the situation.

[Wren_]

(((learning))) i think ... it would be good if you could see him sooner than a month away; that ... maybe you really need to ask him some of what you shared here. That you wonder if by encouraging you to come less he thinks what you are struggling with is less important or if by that he just wants to support your decision and thinks that will help you? I know for me, my T says things that I hear very differently to the way he intends them. I'm not sure if that is true in this case with you; but I hate thinking of you beliving he doesn't like you and that you wonder if maybe what is important to you isn't important - because, it is - very important As far as your sister; I hope he helps you to keep working thorugh this and you can help him to see he needs to be supportive. The other week Chris said something in a reply to me about having to teach our T's things; maybe yours needs to be taught what you need?

[stopdog]

It does seem like once a month therapy is hindering things or this is not the right therapist. Good luck and I am sorry you are having a rough time with it.

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by learning1

I think I go to therapy in real life to have something to talk about here, and then I come here online to get help cleaning up the mess and to get real support. I’m afraid it isn’t fair to you all for me to be asking for that on here, except for that I’m not asking anyone in particular and no one has to read it. So, I guess that’s a warning—self serving slimy mess ahead—please switch to another thread now if you’re not totally suited up in a good quality slime-resistant suit. And please don’t start worrying that your own posts are asking too much!!!, especially if you’re Granite or Tree or Stopdog or someone who doesn’t usually post on here, because I absolutely promise you are light years less self serving than this and I’ll be really upset I posted this if you start thinking that .



So therapy yesterday was pretty awful. I told t I brought a letter I had written to my sister a few years ago when a different therapist suggested it, but I hadn’t ever shown it to anyone, even my sister. Then, before I gave it to him, I told him I’ve been feeling somewhat better and I wonder how much I should keep coming to therapy, but I don’t know if I need to be talking about this stuff about my family. He encouraged me to come less often, which is the same as he usually seems to encourage me to do when we reschedule. He said his goal is for me to have what I need in real life and not be paying him for it. Of course that’s my goal too, but I wish he thought the things I’m struggling with mattered enough to be worth talking about first. He very clearly doesn’t. Maybe he's right and I should try to stop thinking about it, but I haven't yet.


The letter was about my miserable relationship with my sister and Mom growing up, and it was apologizing to my 2-years younger sister for physically fighting with her as a child. I told my t several times that I was nowhere close to being able to talk to my sister about that for real. He kept pushing really really hard to talk to her anyway. He told me his older brother used to beat him up as a kid and he wished his brother would have brought it up with him. Instead, as an adult, my t told his older brother how awful it was getting beaten up. So I don’t know if t could display his dislike of me for not apologizing to my sister much stronger.

The reason I’m nowhere close to being able to talk to my sister about it is because she has always been so close to my Mom, and I think my Mom was mean to me growing up. I can’t talk to my sister about what it was like growing up since she’d see it from my Mom’s side, and it still hurts that they didn’t respect or care about me sometimes back then. I didn’t know how to explain the reason I can’t talk to my sister to t during the session. But, I’ve told t about problems with my Mom several times, including several very explicit times in the letter. I also have said several times my sister is closer to Mom. So could t possibly not get it that that’s a problem? Or is it that he thinks my attitude about Mom isn’t fair and he dislikes me for it? Every time I bring it up he seems to ignore it or not care. Once I said that my Mom and I fought a lot growing up and it feels weird interacting with her now, since she just suddenly started being nice when I became an adult. T’s suggestion was just talk to her about what she’s interested in. If he thinks the way the fighting felt matters, he didn't tell. I told him how she got angry and yelled at me when I did something wrong during craft projects, and his comment was, “so that wasn’t resolved.” If he thinks how I felt mattered, he’s not letting on. It's more like him to point out I was lucky she did craft projects with me at all, since a lot of parents wouldn't. I think I'd be happier if she hadn't though. In the letter I said Mom was mean to me growing up, and I said I thought she didn’t like me because I was unpopular. I think I’ve told him that before. Another therapist said Mom was emotionally abusive. For some reason with that therapist I had quickly spilled the worst things I remembered Mom doing. I haven’t told a few of those things to this therapist. This t pretty much always looks at the other person’s side of everything, so I can pretty much count on him sympathizing with my Mom somewhat if I tell him.


I guess I don’t need his validation of my understanding that Mom hurt me intentionally sometimes. I know that. But I’m struggling with whether I can have an honest relationship with her now. She’s old and might not live a lot longer. I wish t could help me figure that out. I also feel stupid to beg him to see my side of it enough to help when it seems he just doesn’t like who I really am very much.


I won’t go to another therapist because I’ve already changed therapists a zillion times and I’ve put in too much time with this one to start over again. I might be able to resolve to end therapy and appreciate the things I got out of it. One of the things I could get out of it would be to trust myself and not to rely on therapy. And maybe to try not to think so much about having a great relationship with parents or therapists who don’t like me that much, when I could be doing other things. But I haven't yet.


I seem to be posting on the faith-in-therapy central website again instead . He rescheduled with me for a month from now. I'm trying to decide about asking him to meet with me sooner so I don't have to worry about it for a month. But I think it probably will get worse if I talk to him, since he always points out the other person's side of things. I'm also thinking about ending therapy like he seems to think I should. So hard to decide.

Learning one.....I so hear you on all of this. I'm in the same position of being half-in and half out of therapy right now. It's very difficult to figure out whether I am in a "lull" or a slump (I may post eleswhere about that) or whether I'm done right now, and also feeling that I don't need my t's validation (positive) versus just being "over" it (perhaps even negative).

I don't have an wisdom here for you. I am trying to take things a bit more slowly than I usually do...and let things emerge, let decisions emerge, rather than feeling that I have to be super-definitive. Sometimes, when I'm feeling that I have to be in a "get er done" frame of mind, it's just a cover for the fact that I'm not always comfortable with letting things (including therapy) play themselves out.

It's hard for me...letting things play themselves out.

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by mcl6136

Learning one.....I so hear you on all of this. I'm in the same position of being half-in and half out of therapy right now. It's very difficult to figure out whether I am in a "lull" or a slump (I may post eleswhere about that) or whether I'm done right now, and also feeling that I don't need my t's validation (positive) versus just being "over" it (perhaps even negative).

I don't have an wisdom here for you. I am trying to take things a bit more slowly than I usually do...and let things emerge, let decisions emerge, rather than feeling that I have to be super-definitive. Sometimes, when I'm feeling that I have to be in a "get er done" frame of mind, it's just a cover for the fact that I'm not always comfortable with letting things (including therapy) play themselves out.

It's hard for me...letting things play themselves out.

Oops...sorry...I hit send too soon. What I wanted to say, was I don't have any great wisdom (surprise!) but I hope that you can take care of yourself through this juncture. The old memories with your sister and your mother are important and deserve to be treated with the maximum respect. Whether or not you feel as strongly that your T cares, I know how vital those feelings are and I admire you for having the guts to face them at all! I know plenty of people who would let this stuff slide and then...let this blow up later.

Hang in there!

[learning1]

It is such a relief to get comfort from you all that someone out there thinks these things matter whenever my t is kind of mean or insensitive. I don't think I'd have let him be that way as much as I do if not for the support on PC. I probably wouldn't have continued therapy anywhere close to this long. And I have gotten some things out of it (whether "it" is PC or therapy, I'm not sure).

Originally Posted by anilam

Once a month therapy? What's the point? I wouldn't be able to have a good trusting relationship with my T...

As for your T- I don't know. From what you have described I wouldn't bothered to spent your money (not his time- remember YOU are paying him for his services) on him.

However, I think the advice to work on relationship with your mom is good. Parents, like it or not, are really important in our lives. Even though she wasn't good mother when you were growing up she can be now. Seems like she is willing to work on that with you.

Thanks anilam. I think my t doesnt' want to have a trusting relationship, or any relationship. Anyway, yeah, my mother was not awful but she was mean sometimes. She is nice to me now, but working on relationships is not part of her worldview I don't think. She's happy with the status quo, as long as we don't say anything about the past, and as long as I continue to visit and anxiously try to be nice to her. Well, I think what you said is right... just inspired me to spill even more junk about it here .

Originally Posted by Readytostop

Learning, I'm in a bad place in my T. journey right now... so I don't think I'm a good person to give objective comments... but I wanted you to know that I heard you... that I'll be thinking about you... and hoping you can come to a place where you find some peace about the situation.

Thanks Readytostop. I'm sorry you're in a bad place too. Finding some peace is a good way to put it. I hope you find some peace about yours too.

Originally Posted by tigergirl

(((learning))) i think ... it would be good if you could see him sooner than a month away; that ... maybe you really need to ask him some of what you shared here. That you wonder if by encouraging you to come less he thinks what you are struggling with is less important or if by that he just wants to support your decision and thinks that will help you? I know for me, my T says things that I hear very differently to the way he intends them. I'm not sure if that is true in this case with you; but I hate thinking of you beliving he doesn't like you and that you wonder if maybe what is important to you isn't important - because, it is - very important As far as your sister; I hope he helps you to keep working thorugh this and you can help him to see he needs to be supportive. The other week Chris said something in a reply to me about having to teach our T's things; maybe yours needs to be taught what you need?

Thanks for saying you think it's important tigergirl. It really helps that someone thinks so even when t comes across the opposite. I know there are lots of ways to interpret what he says, but he's pretty intelligent and he knows it too. The way I'm interpreting it isn't that far fetched and I believe he must know there's a pretty good chance it hurt, and he wants to do it anyway.

Yeah I remember seeing what Chris wrote too. But my reaction even when I read it was... there must be some limit to how much you can tell your t what you need and he can say what you tell him, for it to still mean much. I might be at the limit for it to mean enough to me, even if he agreed to say it, and I think he probably wouldn't even agree to say it.

Well, it probably sounds like I just disagreed with half of what you wrote, but I realize that what you wrote is probably the most positive interpretation of it, and I really do appreciate you caring and trying to help me a lot, even though I'm not in a place to accept my t.

Originally Posted by mcl6136

Learning one.....I so hear you on all of this. I'm in the same position of being half-in and half out of therapy right now. It's very difficult to figure out whether I am in a "lull" or a slump (I may post eleswhere about that) or whether I'm done right now, and also feeling that I don't need my t's validation (positive) versus just being "over" it (perhaps even negative).

I don't have an wisdom here for you. I am trying to take things a bit more slowly than I usually do...and let things emerge, let decisions emerge, rather than feeling that I have to be super-definitive. Sometimes, when I'm feeling that I have to be in a "get er done" frame of mind, it's just a cover for the fact that I'm not always comfortable with letting things (including therapy) play themselves out.

It's hard for me...letting things play themselves out.

Yeah, I'm identifying with you about letting things play themselves out. I've been doing that a lot more with my current t than I did with previous t's. (And coming on PC to get through the hurtful things he says, which makes it more tolerable to wait for the playing out to happen.) And pretty likely I'll wind up doing that again, just waiting a month due to inertia with making a decision on ending or asking him to meet sooner. This is the first time I think I've felt this strongly about it. I've had a bunch of other posts about quitting but this is the first time I think I'm considering quitting without talking to him about it first. His push for me to leave sucks, but that's the way it is. He keeps suggesting I come less often, even before this. I think I might be able to accept it and do it. It's not what I thought I wanted, but maybe I'm just better off not thinking about all these things. I was a lot happier before therapy yesterday after all.

Originally Posted by mcl6136

Oops...sorry...I hit send too soon. What I wanted to say, was I don't have any great wisdom (surprise!) but I hope that you can take care of yourself through this juncture. The old memories with your sister and your mother are important and deserve to be treated with the maximum respect. Whether or not you feel as strongly that your T cares, I know how vital those feelings are and I admire you for having the guts to face them at all! I know plenty of people who would let this stuff slide and then...let this blow up later.

Hang in there!

thank you!

[unaluna]

I am sorry I ever stuck up for this guy, even remotely. I don't think it's because he doesn't like you, learning, I think he's just burnt out or something. Waiting for someone to call him on his b.s.? He's just kinda phoning it in. Really, for the things you describe here about your mom and sis, you might do better with a new but truly sympathetic ear. These are fairly common geriatric issues, aren't they? (SORRRRRYYYY!!!!)

[learning1]

Originally Posted by hankster

I am sorry I ever stuck up for this guy, even remotely. I don't think it's because he doesn't like you, learning, I think he's just burnt out or something. Waiting for someone to call him on his b.s.? He's just kinda phoning it in. Really, for the things you describe here about your mom and sis, you might do better with a new but truly sympathetic ear. These are fairly common geriatric issues, aren't they? (SORRRRRYYYY!!!!)

yeah, maybe I'm better off dealing w it on my own. I forgot if you stuck up for him. I've stuck up for him too. If you mean my t is geriatric... he's only 40, my age. He is just a jerk sometimes. Kinda almost feel sorry for him but not really.

thank you

Learning, I had one thought to share... my T. does psycho dynamic therapy...(talk therapy that looks at the effects of the past on the present)...maybe that is not the type of therapy that you T. uses. Maybe he is into CBT or Solutions based or some of the other theories I've heard about here on PC. It would be good to know that information. But if you tell me that he says what he is doing with you is Psych dynamic therapy, then I will tell you that you need to change T.

[Chopin99]

What Hankster said.

You are your own person and I'm not telling you what to do, but my advice is to pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease leave this T and find a new one.

I wish you the best, learning!

[unaluna]

no by geriatric I meant end-of-life issues like the family reconciliations. I stuck up for him WAAAAY back when, about whether or not he was out of line with something he said, did you take it the wrong way or something? I was like, he coulda meant it this way or that way... maybe a conversation between you and a bf? anyway, I disagree with myself now!

and kudos to you for even trying to patch things up w/family. I can't even try.

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by hankster

and kudos to you for even trying to patch things up w/family. I can't even try.

You are in the same boat as my H and his sister. They have nothing to do with their mother...she has figuratively stabbed them over and over again.

I literally have the MIL from hell. I knew it was bad when the first (and only) time I went to her house, she asked my SIL to hand her a pistol. When SIL asked why, she said, "because I want to point it at her (me) and make her one of us."

[unaluna]

Thanks, Choppy, first time I've LOL'd in ten days!

My MILs were great - it was their sons I couldn't stand

[Chopin99]

Glad you laughed Hank...here's another.

I overheard this conversation between H and SIL recently:

SIL: Well, she tried to shoot me too!
H: At least you were in a car when she shot at you.

H was running across the yard when MIL shot at him. He said until that moment, he didn't realize that he could de-materialize and re-materialize in a safe place!

[learning1]

Originally Posted by hankster

no by geriatric I meant end-of-life issues like the family reconciliations.

oh i see

Originally Posted by hankster

I stuck up for him WAAAAY back when, about whether or not he was out of line with something he said, did you take it the wrong way or something? I was like, he coulda meant it this way or that way... maybe a conversation between you and a bf? anyway, I disagree with myself now!

oh yeah, maybe when t said "i hate to break it to you" but you're like your father. Anyway, no problem. That was probably what I wanted to hear then.

Originally Posted by hankster

and kudos to you for even trying to patch things up w/family. I can't even try.

thank u... likely i have less difficult family and patching to do.

[learning1]

So, when I was replying to tigergirl's therapist disclosure thread, it occurred to me that my t has let on that he came from a dysfunctional, maybe abusive family, though I haven't asked him for details. I wonder if his history makes my relationship with my mother seem good in comparison, and if that's what has kept him from empathizing with me. Also maybe being male makes it harder for him to understand mother-daughter dynamics. IDK, that's a vague idea I had but I don't really understand how mother-son relationships are different. I wonder if I should ask him more about his family history. I feel sad for him now if I'm right about it.

[learning1]

Originally Posted by Readytostop

Learning, I had one thought to share... my T. does psycho dynamic therapy...(talk therapy that looks at the effects of the past on the present)...maybe that is not the type of therapy that you T. uses. Maybe he is into CBT or Solutions based or some of the other theories I've heard about here on PC. It would be good to know that information. But if you tell me that he says what he is doing with you is Psych dynamic therapy, then I will tell you that you need to change T.

He is a marriage and family therapist. They are into family history, more like psychodynamic than like CBT or solutions focused I think.