Processing termination with new T?

So he brought up that we are going to do a full set of tests, I was good with that . He said he is going to " throw the book at ya ", as my insurance allows. Anyway, then he says, " Well, you know, what do you think of me requesting your records from her? " I say , "well I would hate for her perception of me to cloud yours." He then mentions processing and his help with my previous termination, as I am in a funk and not wanting to go to work. I tell him let me think about it. He then says he could just call her up and say, I'm Dr J and Lola is seeing me now and is still processing her past termination. Would you be willing to sit down and have a proper termination, and then say and i'd be requesting her records. Although before he said he would ask for her personal notes. I'm just not sure. One one hand I feel,like with the testing and xT's notes it's all OUT there. But I'm not so sure I want to be that vulnerable. Ugggg any advice?

Side note... xT referred me to a woman Dr. , we corresponded via phone and email 4 times. She then referred me to Dr. J. Week 1 he said she did that because she predominantly works with children.
Week 2 he says she did it because she wasn't going to work with someone who wasn't willing to do therapy .... Interesting.

If it were me, I would not go for notes from the past therapist. I would want to start fresh with the new t and go from there. I would ask a lot more about how would old notes help him help you?

Yeah interesting... I would ask him about it.
Otherwise I don't know but personally I wouldn't like my current T meeting the T's I have dumped, cause I didn't like them. I told him my T's history- mostly the reasons I left- and that's it. Anyway, just my 2 cents.

I would be leery of him if he's talking about his calling and requesting these things himself, despite what you have to say. Sounds to me like he's taking too much charge of where your therapy is going to go and not getting to know you, himself, and what you want for your therapy (doing the tests first instead of the process happening where both of you decide some testing might be useful). He sounds too managerial for me.

Wait a minute- he can't contact her and get her notes without Lola's consent, can he?

Well he can try. He should not be able to get the info he seeks, and there are probably violations of various things, but he certain "can" give it a go. The old therapist may choose (for various ethical and legal reasons) not to comply with his attempts without Lola's consent, or she could overlook the reasons not to do so and talk to him. It certainly is a breach of many different tenets, but there are those who care not for such. I would run from anyone who tried, regardless of their ultimate success. However. I took his statement as reported as though he was asking Lola if she would be okay with him doing it - not that he would do it without her consent.

My two best Ts had policies of waiting 2-3 months before talking to my former Ts so that they could form opinions for themselves first about me. (In fact when I moved from one of them to the next one, she wouldn't even talk to new T for 3 mos because she wanted new T to form her own opinion before they talked.) These two Ts talked to my previous Ts on the phone for 15-30 minutes, that's it. No notes. This to me is the best.

In his defense , I mentioned the testing at the end of last session. I read about him and he confirmed that was a specialty of his and I figured he was going to subconsciously do it anyway. I am also curious and he said I could have the results. I think the phone call was a olive branch on his part to " set it up " if I wasn't comfortable. As for her notes, he said it was to help him have some insight. I mentioned that i felt she may have had counter transference and she may have been the crazy one. I told him my partner and are friends of a local therapist in town and that he said she was crazy. T then murmured ... Well I could make a phone call to confirm that... lol then he says there a lot of crazy people in this profession that's for sure.
It's just so weird putting ,yourself under a microscope like this.

I don't know how it is for counselors, especially those in private practice, but in medicine a dr does not need to get the patient's consent to transfer notes. For instance if I want to refer my patient to a cardiologist, or maybe just get a cardiologist's advice on her treatment, I can do that without asking her even if it involves sending her written notes. It sounds like your current t is an psychiatrist? Or is he a psychologist? What about your previous?

In your case, I have to agree with Perna. It is good that he is taking your therapy seriously, and that he wants to get as much background as he can so he can help you. But. Maybe he should spend a session or two just getting to know you first.

Listen to your gut.

I think it depends on the notes; he could call the other therapist on his own and discuss Lola if he wanted, person to person; not "nice" and what I'm leery of and why I would run but no, he can't get the HIPPA notes, she has to get those and give them to him or go sign an authorization that he can be sent/given them, etc..

I would prefer they only talk on the phone in my presence. I can defend the written word.

xT would never break any laws or put her license in jeopardy. So if it's something ethical, she may throw me under the bus . But actual violation , no way.

Lucydog

xT is a LCSW
New T is a Psy.D.

Lola - do you feel it would be beneficial to you for them to talk? If not, then say no. You do not have to let them. If you are looking at it as something you need to defend yourself from, why go through it?

I guess the question becomes would I benefit from a proper termination session, as this is where I see this headed. Is it beneficial? Experiences?
Then there is the part of me who wants T to see that xT was crazy! What better way then to see what she wrote and hear her side, compare to the test. It wasn't all me, she's labeling me as difficult and that is BS! ... Residual anger , followed my nervous laughter.

Your old t was not good for you. I just am not confident continuing to include her in any part of your new therapy will get you what you want. You know you are not difficult, you and the new t will be forming your own working situation, and old t will never admit she was wrong. I think new t can confirm you are not difficult without the old t at all.
Good luck with it. It is not fun to feel unjustly labelled. But you cannot control how the old t viewed you, and continuing to defend yourself against her when she is now gone may not be your most productive use of time and money as compared to forging on with this or some other new t. Just my thought and I realize it is not for me to decide what is best for you.

I'm with stopdog. The tests can't really be compared to your ex-T's opinions and your perception of you and her; the tests are just "general" stuff as to whether you make up depressing stories taking the TAT or encouraging ones and if you see positive things in the Rorschach blobs or negative things.

If you thought your T was crazy and not helpful to you, it is a good thing you got out of there. But I'm not sure about this guy who's only doing these tests and not engaging with you, himself. Like a teacher just letting you fill the workbook out yourself and then testing you on it and saying they know what kind of student you are?

I had a session w/ my exT 10 mos later and it was good because I was able to go in from a place of newly found strength and though she didn't say what I wanted to hear, it made me feel good about myself to say what I had to and have that be enough. I even felt more mature than her! Mine was a little bit of a different situation as we ended because I moved and did have a termination session, but our relationship was not great, which I only fully allowed myself to realize about 6 months after we ended. Too, my new T talked to exT about 7 mos later (exT emailed me something that was like a slap in the face and so newT offered to talk to her - long story). Their interaction confirmed to newT about exT being wrong in her interactions with me, etc. That part did indeed feel good In your case, is time of the essence? Processing a termination/T relationship takes time so I'm not sure that you have to make any decisions ASAP. Most important is to focus on forming a relationship w/ newT and having him form his own opinions.

go with your gut.

my ample gut says avoid the old t. no notes, no calls nada. she is a loon. you know it. he knows it. avoid her like typhoid mary.

testing is good if you want it..if it makes you feel better..otherwise don't.

me? i would leave old t to fall slip on an icy patch as the bus approaches on her own.

you have a chance to begin brand spanking new. run with it...she will influence your therapy enough as it is..don't let her control it by having any more say in it than she will have (you will be spending enough time doing damage control)

Now I'm wondering if there is something in it for him. He did say he was the president or somethingmofnthe local chapter of some phycologist board in town.

Testing T's are into testing! You said he's told you that he specializes in that. I don't know if that's the kind of T you want? I think they're the kind of T's that you say you're depressed, and they reply, "yeah I thought so, that's what the tests show"? How useful is that?

again go with the gut.

tell him you would rather wait a bit before you sign a release...you just have to think about it if you aren't comfortable..feel him out...there is no hurry...

if he is fishing because he thinks she is crazy then he can wait...he can't file a complaint on her without your consent anyway (as far as i know) if he is using your records...

he can treat you just fine without the records...

if he is being nosy...well he can wait for that too...

me? i would put him off for a bit...let 's see where this goes first...get comfortable, feel safe. if you don't feel safe then don't risk exposing yourself to him. you don't need 2 bad t's going over your records...

yeah i'm thinking maybe you are too much for seminary boy. I think testing is a form of control, his going for the titles (participating in the groups and holding office) is phony proof of his "accomplishments" ie phallic and now he even needs to call on mommy to help him out? I can't page back here - who told you the other T was a child T? That was a little hostile, wasn't it? As was the other remark. Okay, so maybe it IS you - but you've already told us you're not exactly Rosalyn Carter, and the people in your town were somewhat small-minded. SOMEBODY has to have at least HALF a personality there! Maybe keep looking. This is an important relationship - my current T is lasting longer than any of my husbands!

xT referred me to the child T, but apparently declined due to being busy.

T compared most therapy to a band-aid , he said he is into long term therapy... Phycoanalytical ... More in depth.

I did tell him I hated that xT started every session with a form of , what can I help you with today? I told him I need the sessions to connect to pick up where we left off. I also told him he could take notes, he said he usually didn't because he didn't like it when it happened to him .

Going to a new therapist is about you, Lola, and what you want and need out of therapy, right now. You sought out a new therapist because the previous relationship was not helpful; in fact, it was painful and felt hurful and damaging to your mental health. The reasons your x therapist thought the relationship didn't work doesn't matter at this moment in time. I sincerely believe that your new therapist needs to spend a bit of time, just the two of you, exploring your wants, needs and goals for therapy. It's a time for you both to find your balance and connection. Talking about what was painful for you in the previous relationship is good stuff but it doesn't need to be contaminated by your x therapist's thoughts and ideas about what didn't work. Those are her views. Your new therapeutic relationship is about how you think, view and feel about that relationship.

I just don't fully understand why he wants to talk to your x therapist before he's even been able to form some kind of relationship with you. Why would he need information from a previous therapist that was NOT a good relationship? He needs to spend time with you first. . . and if at a later point, if you decide it might be helpful for you to examine and talk about what happened in that relationship, that's the time for you new therapist to say, "Let's explore this a bit more. How about I request a phone call or material from your previous therapist and you and I can look at it and talk about it." The new relationship with this guy is more important than what your old therapist has to say, in my opinion anyway.

PS. I'd also add that if you feel that you need to give permission for contact, I think your idea of only allowing phone contact in "your presence" is an excellant way of going about this. I sincerely believe that if a person can't say what they think or believe about another person to their "face" than it shouldn't be said.