[Chopin99]

I have spent some time (after a good night's sleep and some needed time away from thinking about everything) further processing the triggers I wrote about yesterday and came up with some resolutions.

Why T stating her boundary regarding touch triggers feelings of rejection:

Past Factors:
1. My mother was not affectionate.
I was bottle-fed and most pictures of me show Mom holding me at an arm's distance. I believe young children need physical affection from their mothers to feel safe, wanted, loved. As a child, I don't particularly remember feeling safe except when I was with my maternal grandparents. They showered me with affection. I still wanted Mom to love me that way, but she could not and I have forgiven her for that. That doesn't make the craving go away.

2. Being the "ugly girl".
In school, from sixth grade until graduation, I was considered the "ugly girl". Made fun of. Barked at (that was the worst). I was untouchable. If someone touched me by accident, they would say, "oh, gross," and wipe off whatever body part was affected. I was called many names, such as "dog", "the Painess" (play on my maiden name and "@$$"), "weirdo", "dork", and "nerd". My schoolmates and I were rather socially immature. We were treated as children from kindergarten (when we deserved it) through graduation day (when we did not). Our diplomas were not in the folders we received during the ceremony. If anyone "tried anything" during the ceremony, they would not receive their diploma (in the mail).

3. Being bisexual in a homophobic peer cohort.
From early on (about age 10), I thought something was wrong with me because when friends were having crushes on boys, I was having crushes on female teachers. Starting in junior high school, my classmates and I started hearing about ho-mo-sex-ew-awls, also called ******s, fruits, and fairies, from the pulpit in chapel. It sounded as if being a ho-mo-sex-ew-awl was one of the worst sins ever, up there with murder, rape, and listening to that "devil rock music". So I hid my tendency. I was always afraid when I hugged another female, that she thought I was ho-mo-sex-ew-awl, that it "showed" and that nobody wanted to touch me because of it.

Analysis of past and current factors:
I am bi, but it is not a sexual affection I crave; it is anything but...I want a woman, older than I, to love me that way. To just hold me for more than a few seconds. To let me rest my head on their shoulder for a few minutes. I receive affection from H and have received affection from other men. That does not satisfy the craving at all. It is unreasonable to believe that my craving will ever be considered by anyone, much less satisfied. I don't know too many people who wouldn't think it's weird or gross. I feel great shame in desiring this from anyone. I feel embarrassed and ashamed that T tried to fulfill it to some extent, but was uncomfortable the whole time. I thought it was okay because I figured if it wasn't, she would be honest and tell me. The fact that she thought it was in my best interest at the time is only mildly comforting; that she was willing to make that sacrifice for my sake, but simultaneously struggle with the fact that I love her and doing something for my sake made someone I love uncomfortable. I don't feel that I or that craving is worthy of that sacrifice; however I realize that it is not all my fault. T chose not to state the parameter in the beginning. She chose to give in despite her own discomfort. She said she feels she was wrong to have allowed it to happen. She took responsibility for that.

It still hurts on a lot of levels. It triggers Mom's physical rejection, which made me feel unwanted, unloved, and unsafe. It triggers being untouchable, which made me feel unworthy, unwanted, and unloved. It triggers fears of homophobia, which made me feel unworthy, different, and wrong.

I feel shame, rejection, fear, anger, anxiety, loneliness, and doubt. It also makes me feel that none of the emotions I felt and thought were returned by T were real. I feel as if she lied to me. I wonder if she was cringing inside when I held on for too long. I wonder if she dreaded my appointments.

Resolutions:
1. Recognize that the boundaries of others have little to do with me.
2. Respect the boundaries of others and develop some of my own.
3. Live in the present and be grateful for what I have.
4. Accept that my mother is still physically distant and that will probably never change.
5. Realize that people no longer bark at me; in fact, I am described by many as attractive, especially my eyes.
6. Acknowledge that there are always going to be homophobic people.
7. Understand that my "craving" to be held by a mother figure will probably never be satisfied in this lifetime.
8. Learn how to self-soothe and love myself.

If nothing else, it's a step toward healing.

[CantExplain]

Some good analysis there. Once again, I see how your approach to therapy is so similar to my own. You have a combination of reason and passion that I find very attractive.

And I agree with your analysis. You're not looking for a woman lover, you are looking for a mother. (Me too!)

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Some good analysis there. Once again, I see how your approach to therapy is so similar to my own. You have a combination of reason and passion that I find very attractive.

And I agree with your analysis. You're not looking for a woman lover, you are looking for a mother. (Me too!)

Thanks!! My H told me last night that I HAVE found a mother in T. He said isn't that a mother's job? To teach and uphold boundaries? That's what T has started doing because she realizes it's what I need. He has a point.

[WePow]

(((((((((Chopin))))))))))) I wish I could just give you the biggest hug EVER!!!!!
You did so great with letting yourself process through this trigger. I am so sorry you were denied that contact as a child. They say that touch is VITAL to a child. In fact, studis were done which showed children denied touch were harmed greatly. Sending you very huge hugs!!!!!

[unaluna]

The other reason I am not a T; and just wanted to let you know I am here and did hear you; but mother issues - eg wanting one? - are just beyond me. I'm like the boy in A Clockwork Orange - I have had the need and desire and appreciation and ability even to tolerate mothering (or in the movie, Beethoven) simply all trained out of me.

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by WePow

(((((((((Chopin))))))))))) I wish I could just give you the biggest hug EVER!!!!!
You did so great with letting yourself process through this trigger. I am so sorry you were denied that contact as a child. They say that touch is VITAL to a child. In fact, studis were done which showed children denied touch were harmed greatly. Sending you very huge hugs!!!!!

Thanks WePow! I guess I was lucky to have my grandparents who gave me affection...because I have read a couple of those studies. In fact, this happened to one of my clients. I started to write her story, but it might be rather triggering (it's very sad).

Originally Posted by hankster

The other reason I am not a T; and just wanted to let you know I am here and did hear you; but mother issues - eg wanting one? - are just beyond me. I'm like the boy in A Clockwork Orange - I have had the need and desire and appreciation and ability even to tolerate mothering (or in the movie, Beethoven) simply all trained out of me.

My H identifies with you there. Has no desire for it whatsoever!

[mixedup_emotions]

Sorry that I haven't posted lately....

Just wanted to chime in to say that I am incredibly impressed with the work you did to understand your trigger....and I feel so sad that the muddied boundaries with T caused you pain.

It makes me realize how much I understand T's objection to hugs and any kind of physical touch in therapy.

I am one of those people that have a deep desire for safety in physical affection but am SO scared of it that I punish myself for having those feelings....I had a difficult upbringing, with physically and emotionally abusive parents. This thread makes me wonder how much of my issues with touch are related to the lack of affection I had as a child...or the CSA...or my issues with being overweight....Maybe it's a combination of all. In any case, thanks for sharing this...it's helping me to explore areas that I haven't touched on yet....

[critterlady]

Chopin, I'm really impressed at how insightful you are about the trigger and your resolutions. And so eloquent in expressing your insights.

[growlycat]

First, I must agree that your posts are emotionally honest and brave--I wish I could bring myself to detail in one post the most painful parts of my experience.

I don't want to offend you, but now that I have a better understanding of your situation, something sticks out for me. I know that you see a Christian counselor, and I know that you are bi. You have mentioned that your T mentions "separating sin from sinner" etc.

The issue of touch, for me, seems like this masks the deeper rejection you may feel because of her moral stance. This is where the therapy I am used to greatly diverges from what your T is doing. Morality judgements are not standard in therapy, only if you are hurting yourself or others does it even approach morality issues. Non judgement is a vital part of therapy.

You seem to have a great relationship w/your T--I would be reluctant to say go elsewhere. But this might be an impasse that is not your doing. To me, this is a fault of "Christian" counseling. I mean no offense to your beliefs.

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by growlycat

I don't want to offend you, but now that I have a better understanding of your situation, something sticks out for me. I know that you see a Christian counselor, and I know that you are bi. You have mentioned that your T mentions "separating sin from sinner" etc.

The issue of touch, for me, seems like this masks the deeper rejection you may feel because of her moral stance. This is where the therapy I am used to greatly diverges from what your T is doing. Morality judgements are not standard in therapy, only if you are hurting yourself or others does it even approach morality issues. Non judgement is a vital part of therapy.

You seem to have a great relationship w/your T--I would be reluctant to say go elsewhere. But this might be an impasse that is not your doing. To me, this is a fault of "Christian" counseling. I mean no offense to your beliefs.

I have chosen to believe T when she says that she does not judge people based on their sexuality. It's nice to know she has comfortable, long-term friendships with individuals who choose to live a gay lifestyle. She doesn't judge them, she respects them and their belief systems. She hasn't judged me thus far; and the one time I thought she did, I was completely mistaken. T has been very nonjudgmental from the get-go. She says it is not her place to judge others for any reason, in therapy or in life. She feels strongly about this. That's why I was completely taken aback when I misunderstood her; it was completely unlike her!

[growlycat]

I am probably showing my own biases, and I may very well be projecting. When I read the well-written account of your exchange with the T, I felt judgement coming through. That's just me. Is she being honest with herself about the discomfort of allowing touch between you? My gut instinct says "no way", again I can be so wrong too.

Just didn't want you to beat up on yourself for something that may be an external factor.
Full disclosure here--I am an agnostic who has not had great interactions with Christian based groups (including but not limited to the Catholic church.) I bring my own experiences and biases to the table.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by hankster

The other reason I am not a T; and just wanted to let you know I am here and did hear you; but mother issues - eg wanting one? - are just beyond me. I'm like the boy in A Clockwork Orange - I have had the need and desire and appreciation and ability even to tolerate mothering (or in the movie, Beethoven) simply all trained out of me.

That's an interesting point. If I had had a totally bad mother, I might have given up on the whole concept. Instead, I had a mother who was good often enough to get me hooked, but not often enough to satisfy me.

[SpiritRunner]

I admire the way you worked this through too....lots of good insight and a very clear way of stating it. Maybe I should just make myself a copy of that list to remember if I find myself/my mother touch craving triggered so strongly again.
Yes.....one of the hardest things for me on your list though was the understanding that my craving/need will not be satisfied fully in this lifetime....I think I always really knew that. I know I knew it, but somehow T1 woke up the craving/fantasy from its dormancy, and somehow I hoped against hope.....knowing she couldn't really meet the need, but no one ever came so close EVER to seeming like the one who could! And hugging seemed to work for a while, was healing......but it did seem to end up growing the need instead of lessening it, or it made my emotional need of HER greater....
What I have told myself though, was that even if I didn't feel satisfied fully, I could still be satisfied enough.....loving, holding, hugging, touching my children often is one very healing thing and it is very satisfying. I may not have gotten the mothering needs I had fulfilled, but I can do all that is in me to fulfill the needs of my own children - and I suppose that is also part of the self-soothing/self-loving point, too. After all, when you show yourself more willing to give affection, people tend to think you are safe/approachable to show it to, as well - I used to wall myself off so much that I turned people away, but now that I have learned to gradually open myself up more and reach out more, both with my needs and to others in their need, people turn toward me more, and really do seem to find me lovable, touchable, huggable......
T1 had no issues with my sexuality at all, she was Christian but also very nonjudgmental, openminded, etc (same with T2) - I think her problem was feeling like hugging me was inviting sexual attraction/thoughts on my part toward her. But the main thing was that ol' borderline stuff.....her supervisor saying that the sexuality/sexual fantasies/borderline combo was too dangerous to allow physical contact......I accept there was logic in that. Somehow, I don't feel your T's discomfort was related to any moral judgment about your sexuality....but whether or not it was actually right/helpful/useful to you in your therapy to widen her boundaries to include touch, perhaps.....
T and I talked about other things that could show care/nurturing, etc., besides touch.....like words. Once she did a very special visualization with me.....part of it had to do with being in a special, safe place and there was a being there who knew me completely and loved me.....she said, you are lovable, you are loved.....anyway, I left session that day feeling as though I had been hugged verbally/emotionally without the actual touch and feeling like she had also meant she loved me in a way too, and it was a lovely feeling....(I wish she had kept doing things like that for me)
Anyway, I am glad you seem to have a good, competent T.

[Butterflies Are Free]

I totally understood so many of your feelings!
I had physical and emotional bonding with my mother but not with my father.
I feel comfortable and safe with older women and feel fortunate that my female therapist(close to my mom's age) will hold and hug me. I am sorry about what happened with your T and am glad you posted.