[Chopin99]

I am asking for very blunt honesty and real feedback from a variety of viewpoints. I don't completely understand a recent occurrence and I want to know so that I can use this as an opportunity to grow. I do not have the best social skills. I want to learn better social skills. I appreciate anyone who is willing to help me.

In my battle to overcome BPD, I have tried to actively understand the viewpoints of others. My gut reaction is to be displeased, but I usually come to the realization that people are trying to help; to show me a different way of thinking I may have never considered otherwise. The more I practice this, the better I get at accepting that people can disagree with me and that it doesn't define who I am or my worth.

I realize that I have acted selfishly on the couch. I apologize for that. That is not the spirit of give and take that makes the couch what it is.

I have stayed here despite strong urging from my T to leave. My H has also asked me to leave. T believes that this forum is keeping me from forming new RL relationships which she believes I desperately need. I do have a tight, supportive circle of RL friends, but it needs to expand.

These are my questions:
1. Do I come across as selfish, manipulative, or attention-seeking?
2. Have I always come across this way or is it a recent development?
3. Have I offended anyone and how did I do so?

Thank you in advance for any and all feedback.

[stopdog]

Chopin - my honest response is I don't see this going well. But good luck to you on it.

[unaluna]

I think you have made great progress. I think we have as a group. We have grown as a group and as individuals.

I'm kInd of surprised to hear t and h don't support your being here. I think I said when you first came here that h had something to hide. I think t & h both have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. Meaning, you don't grow or change or gain insight.

So I am very surprised that you are asking if you are being selfish. I wasn't even going to answer that question. I was like, where did that come from?? She's asking the wrong question, what a dope!! (Just saying that to assure you of my honesty!) But now I'm like, are those people calling my choppy selfish?? They are going to have to deal with me first!! I don't see it at all. I see it more as people taking advantage of you, and expecting too much of you, because you are smarter than the average bear. But nobody ever protected you, so you don't really know how to take good care of yourself, except when it comes to a desperate point. Your neck hurts TOO much, or something extreme like that - THEN it's okay to stop and pay attention to yourself. I still want you to find a nice cute male psychoanalytical t. (Not only like mine, I think Ellie may has one too. Or like earthmammas, even tho that's a woman.)

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by Chopin99

So I decided to share who I am in a relatively small, safe setting, but because it appears my sharing is coming across as attention-seeking, I will cease.

I'm not sure what you mean. What is the small, safe setting? Do you mean therapy? That you were able to share in the safe setting of therapy? And now you worry what you have said in therapy comes across as attention-seeking? What does your T think? Or do you mean that PsychCentral is the small setting? (I don't think of PC as small!)

Originally Posted by Chopin99

These are my questions:
1. Do I come across as selfish?
2. Have I always come across this way or is it a recent development?
3. Have I offended anyone and how did I do so?

Here are my honest answers. 1. You don't come across as selfish to me because your posts don't stand out in my mind. There are so many posters here on PC, and my memory skills are not topnotch, so I have to know someone for a while to have their posts stand out, or they have to be either incredibly obnoxious or insightful or really in sync with me to make me remember the poster. When I try to recall your posts to test in my mind if they seem selfish, I cannot really recall what your posts are like. I think they blend into the overall picture of PC for me--lots of people posting their experiences and advice and insights, trying to be supportive, and adding to our family here. I definitely consider you a PT forum family member "in good standing." I do not have any negative recollections when I think of "Chopin99." I do think you have sometimes responded to posts I have made and I don't recall anything negative. I think your posts are fine!
2. I don't recall any changes in your posts, but I don't keep close track of this type of thing.
3. You definitely have not offended me.

If you feel your posts are selfish, you can always try to change.

Originally Posted by Chopin99

I have stayed here despite begging from my H and my T to leave. H thinks it is a waste of time. T believes that it is keeping me from forming new RL relationships which she believes I desperately need.

Do you think there is some truth in that? How much time do you spend here a day? If it is too much, maybe try to cut back? Maybe to 30 minutes a day? Like a favorite daily hobby or a TV show? Or if that is already your current level of usage, perhaps cut back to 30 minutes every other day? You will know what would be a good amount, based on your current usage. If people are "begging" you to leave, that sounds like your amount of use may be unhealthy. "Begging" is a strong word.

Originally Posted by Chopin99

I am beginning to wonder if I need to leave this forum, temporarily or permanently.

Why would it have to be all or nothing? Before deciding to leave, maybe try the "cut back my time here" strategy.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by Chopin99

Despite popular belief, I do not believe that the world revolves around me.

. . .

So I decided to share who I am in a relatively small, safe setting, but because it appears my sharing is coming across as attention-seeking, I will cease.

. . .

I don't need the approval of others to be a worthy person.

. . .

I realize that lately, I have acted selfishly

. . .

I have stayed here despite begging from my H and my T to leave.

. . .

I am beginning to wonder if I need to leave this forum, temporarily or permanently.

. . .

These are my questions:
1. Do I come across as selfish?
2. Have I always come across this way or is it a recent development?
3. Have I offended anyone and how did I do so?

My answers:

1. No, not any more than anybody else. We all post hoping to find kinship and support in what we tell. I would limit "selfishness" to those posts that threaten self harming behavior or try to induce guilt in people by crying about how they aren't getting the responses that they want. That, and the people who PM other people to make nasty comments.

I haven't seen any posts from you lately except your most recent one. I remember a long thread weeks ago where you posted about what you perceived were numerous mistakes and negative behavior by your T, and my recollection is that there was a lot of time spent by you and others analyzing and blaming your T for her supposed issues and not a lot of effort around focusing on yourself. So my perspective would be that it is good to take a critical look at yourself, and that the feedback you may be getting here is a reasonable time to delve into that.

2. I don't see any changes, but I may not be looking at the right threads to see this. If you are talking about couch related stuff, I don't participate there although I sometimes read some of it, but am usually lost to some extent. I can't recall ever seeing personal disagreements appear there, but maybe something just blew up and it might be best to let it blow over rather than trying to deconstruct and intellectualize it. I had something that may have been like this appear in one of my RL support networks, someone "quit" and then there was all this gossip and then people started acting like there were "sides" and you could be friends with X or the group, or the group but not X. I just ignored it and continued to be friends with X and hang out with the group, and eventually it has worked itself out.

So I guess I would say that maybe the feedback you've been given is useful to consider, but maybe you are making a bigger deal out of it than it really is. Like, for example, sometimes people take just one post in the wrong way and then it blows back and the other person overreacts. Maybe one thing to consider is whether you can drop this quest for information and just go back to participating in whatever way you feel comfortable.

3. You have not offended me. I know that you didn't agree with some of what I have written to you in some past threads (some we might have agreed), but I haven't felt that you have ever been offensive at the lack of agreement. I feel you are willing to listen to others even if you don't agree, and you don't seem to get bent out of shape about stuff in general. So I am puzzled about what's going on now. Perhaps it is just a simple misunderstanding that went nuclear.

Just because you asked for honesty, I do want to quote the decontextualized bits I quoted above and tell you how I feel about them.

I feel that you are trying to make yourself to be a victim by someone else or someone elses-- by referring to the "popular belief" that you are bad, I think you're trying to manipulate me into feeling sorry that you've been wronged. I don't really appreciate that. It also feels a little like this is a post REALLY to whomever you have had this disagreement with, and all this request for feedback is really a sideshow.

And the other quotes, essentially they sum up for me that you are withdrawing for the sake of others, unselfishly, almost like you are trying to prove that you are not selfish by taking yourself out of the forum or forums.

But these negative things I just said, I think they are limited to this particular post and that really isn't how you are all the time. I think you've been unnerved by whatever has happened and that you honestly are seeking to figure out what has happened and maybe you want support from others around it. I'm sorry, it sounds like it has been really difficult for you, but I would encourage you to just face down whatever is going on-- apologize for your part and try to do better. I think most people here are pretty forgiving and I think there is much to be learned here and ways for you to benefit if you can tolerate the discomfort and move forward. FWIW, I think you contribute a lot to the forum here and I have missed your postings and I would like to see you continue on, but you should do what's best for you.

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by sunrise

What is the small, safe setting?

The psychotherapy forum on PC.

Originally Posted by sunrise

If you feel your posts are selfish, you can always try to change.

True. I didn't feel they were at the time, but sometimes I need the feedback of others to help me see where I am being selfish or manipulative. T and H have been helping me to learn how to be aware of my selfishness and manipulativeness. I feel like I have a block in those areas and I want to remove that block. At least now I am more aware of it so I can take steps to stop these behaviors.

Originally Posted by sunrise

How much time do you spend here a day? If it is too much, maybe try to cut back? Maybe to 30 minutes a day? Like a favorite daily hobby or a TV show? Or if that is already your current level of usage, perhaps cut back to 30 minutes every other day? You will know what would be a good amount, based on your current usage. If people are "begging" you to leave, that sounds like your amount of use may be unhealthy. "Begging" is a strong word.

Why would it have to be all or nothing? Before deciding to leave, maybe try the "cut back my time here" strategy.

Off and on for hours until I started my new position at work. It is very stressful for me, but I am determined to succeed. It is difficult for me to balance my job, my marriage, my RL friendships, my therapy process, and online friendships.

I knew it was becoming an issue for me again because I did not complete a work assignment yesterday because I was obsessing about an occurrence here.

Begging was too strong a word, so I edited my original post. Thanks for pointing that out to me. I was exaggerating and I realize that can come across as manipulative.

Thank you, Sunrise, for the unbiased opinion and for helping me see some of my behaviors so I can change them.

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

1. No, not any more than anybody else. We all post hoping to find kinship and support in what we tell. I would limit "selfishness" to those posts that threaten self harming behavior or try to induce guilt in people by crying about how they aren't getting the responses that they want. That, and the people who PM other people to make nasty comments.

I haven't seen any posts from you lately except your most recent one. I remember a long thread weeks ago where you posted about what you perceived were numerous mistakes and negative behavior by your T, and my recollection is that there was a lot of time spent by you and others analyzing and blaming your T for her supposed issues and not a lot of effort around focusing on yourself. So my perspective would be that it is good to take a critical look at yourself, and that the feedback you may be getting here is a reasonable time to delve into that.

2. I don't see any changes, but I may not be looking at the right threads to see this. If you are talking about couch related stuff, I don't participate there although I sometimes read some of it, but am usually lost to some extent. I can't recall ever seeing personal disagreements appear there, but maybe something just blew up and it might be best to let it blow over rather than trying to deconstruct and intellectualize it. I had something that may have been like this appear in one of my RL support networks, someone "quit" and then there was all this gossip and then people started acting like there were "sides" and you could be friends with X or the group, or the group but not X. I just ignored it and continued to be friends with X and hang out with the group, and eventually it has worked itself out.

So I guess I would say that maybe the feedback you've been given is useful to consider, but maybe you are making a bigger deal out of it than it really is. Like, for example, sometimes people take just one post in the wrong way and then it blows back and the other person overreacts. Maybe one thing to consider is whether you can drop this quest for information and just go back to participating in whatever way you feel comfortable.

3. You have not offended me. I know that you didn't agree with some of what I have written to you in some past threads (some we might have agreed), but I haven't felt that you have ever been offensive at the lack of agreement. I feel you are willing to listen to others even if you don't agree, and you don't seem to get bent out of shape about stuff in general. So I am puzzled about what's going on now. Perhaps it is just a simple misunderstanding that went nuclear.[/QUOTE]

Anne, you are also really helping me to work on changing. The first clue that something is wrong with my behavior is that I keep trying to dissociate while answering your post in more detail. That means it is hard for me to deal with, which tells me I need to work on it. The second clue something is wrong is based on what you have said, I am taking time to look critically at my behavior and I'm finding things that make me feel uncomfortable. Once again, if it is difficult to face, then it is something I need to work on.

I am obsessing on the issue. I don't know how to "fit back in" to the couch, especially when I'm feeling shame due to my behavior. I'm afraid this will happen IRL (particularly at work) and I won't know what to do. Maybe if I can practice here, then I'll be able to handle similar issues IRL.

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

I feel that you are trying to make yourself to be a victim by someone else or someone elses-- by referring to the "popular belief" that you are bad, I think you're trying to manipulate me into feeling sorry that you've been wronged. I don't really appreciate that. It also feels a little like this is a post REALLY to whomever you have had this disagreement with, and all this request for feedback is really a sideshow.

It was really not my conscious intention to manipulate, but your viewpoint helps me to see that it was. I have edited my post. I was asking for feedback because I am truly confused as to whether I am coming across selfish, manipulative, or attention-seeking.

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

And the other quotes, essentially they sum up for me that you are withdrawing for the sake of others, unselfishly, almost like you are trying to prove that you are not selfish by taking yourself out of the forum or forums.

I understand. I'm also taking myself out for my own benefit, but that feels selfish to me. I may be trying to overcompensate for my perceived selfishness when I'm just trying to take care of myself.

Example from RL:

Last weekend I was administrator on-call for work. Early Monday morning, I missed a call from an employee calling out sick. While I'm on-call, it is my responsibility to find coverage for the shift. When I realized I'd missed the call, I called the employee, the shift coordinator, my assistant (who handles my coverage during the week), and my boss...apologizing profusely for what I'd done. I beat myself up for it all day Monday. When I relayed this information to T, she asked me why I felt like I needed to beat myself up and apologize profusely for what had occurred. I managed to evade the question because I didn't want to examine that. She persisted and I told her because I feel like I shouldn't make mistakes that hurt others. She kept persisting because she knew that wasn't the whole truth. I told her that I felt like a failure. I'd failed my staff and I'd failed my clients. Failures need to be punished. She reminded me that a mistake is not failure. I am human and I am allowed to make mistakes. Everyone does. She said all I needed to do was apologize once (to whoever I felt deserved an apology), accept whatever consequences come (there were none, thus the urge to punish myself), and move on. It is not more complicated than that. She urged me to advocate for myself to take time off. I was also harboring resentment because my boss has been delaying my performance evaluation, to which is a raise is based on.

So, when I talked to my boss, he showed me ways that I am not taking care of myself right now. I am trying to do everything at once when I have plenty of time to finish said things. I am not taking charge and teaching my employees when to call and not call me. He told me when the staff called me after midnight Thursday night, I should have said, "Thanks for the information, but that is something I no longer need to be notified of at this hour." I told him I was not sleeping well. I also mentioned that even though I am eating less (skipping meals sometimes), my weight remains the same. Paradoxically, my waist is getting larger; I have gone from size 14 pants to 18 in two months time. What I am eating is not healthy and I am drinking a bucketload of soda.

He told me I could have time off, just not to take it within the next two weeks because our nurse was taking the next two weeks. He told me to find somewhere to go, away from our local area, even if it is nearby. He said to stop drinking so much soda, eat healthily, and try to exercise. Most importantly, he told me to own my new position. That he wouldn't have given it to me if he thought I was going to fail. Make my own decisions; fail honestly if that's what happens.

That last part was the most important. I respect my boss and he respects me. He believes in me, wants me to succeed, and empowers me by letting me run things on my terms. He shows that same respect for everyone. My old boss couldn't do that and people failed under her.

I digress...

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

But these negative things I just said, I think they are limited to this particular post and that really isn't how you are all the time. I think you've been unnerved by whatever has happened and that you honestly are seeking to figure out what has happened and maybe you want support from others around it. I'm sorry, it sounds like it has been really difficult for you, but I would encourage you to just face down whatever is going on-- apologize for your part and try to do better. I think most people here are pretty forgiving and I think there is much to be learned here and ways for you to benefit if you can tolerate the discomfort and move forward. FWIW, I think you contribute a lot to the forum here and I have missed your postings and I would like to see you continue on, but you should do what's best for you.

I have been unnerved by the situation. I'm wondering if a deeper issue (within me) is hiding behind it. I want to make amends, but sometimes there are no amends to make. I've already apologized. Now I need to figure out how to move on.

Thanks again, Anne.

[granite1]

why are you letting what the opinion of some decide what you think others feel chopin ? that is never a good idea .

I see you as a good hearted person who suffers a lot and beats herself up too much. You've not come across as selfish or manipulative to me. I don't read the couch threads so I don't know how that goes.

I see you as someone who is open to changing. I see you as someone who is trying really hard to heal.

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by granite1

why are you letting what the opinion of some decide what you think others feel chopin ? that is never a good idea .

I don't quite understand what you are asking. Do you mind asking in a different way?

[Littlemeinside]

I can´t comment on your posts, because I havn´t really read them all.

It´s just really cool that you ask for honest feedback good or bad.

It´s a really brave and mature thing to do.

And the complete opposite of what a "manipulative" person would do.

True growth and change comes from learning how you react to your enviroment and how others respond to you.

Hope you get some usefull feedback to answer your questions.

[Ike McCaslin]

1. No
2. No
3. Not me

If you leave, i will miss you. Do what is best for you, not what someone else thinks is best for you.

Never read the couch. But if your looking for behaviour moderation to be imposed by hearing 'the truth'. It doesn't work that way.

The need you have will remain until worked through. I'm afraid avoidence isn't change. I'd just carry on working in therapy and doing whatever you need to do to satisfy the need. I'm sure if others get bored with someone's dominance they will gradually drift away.

[pegasus]

((( Chopin99 ))) I care too much about what people think of me too and obssess to the point of being awake all night over what someone thinks of me. I know that feeling well, I guess we have to learn to listen to ourselves and not take someone elses opinion of us as gospel. Try to use the forum as a self help tool for you and your needs.

[sconnie892]

Originally Posted by Chopin99

These are my questions:
1. Do I come across as selfish, manipulative, or attention-seeking?
2. Have I always come across this way or is it a recent development?
3. Have I offended anyone and how did I do so?

Chopin

I have not been as consistent reading and posting to the couch the last two weeks, but I have never found your posts to be selfish, manipulative or attention-seeking. Nor have I ever been offended by them. In fact I often learn a great deal about myself from reading your posts and threads. They are thought provoking and I honestly believe when you ask for feedback you want it to help you improve yourself. I also respected the fact that you took some time away from PC awhile back. I know I can get obsessed with checking and replying to threads too... and you showed me that it is okay to step back and focus on other needs for a time.

[Anne2.0]

Hey Chopin,

I think it's really important to distinguish between behavior and a person. All of us can act selfishly, or with manipulation, or be hard headed, or disagree badly. That doesn't make us those kinds of people.

I think you said in your reply up there that you don't know how to move on when you feel ashamed of something you've done. This seems to me to be really key. As you said, you don't want to walk about in the world avoiding relationships or situations where you have made a mistake. It's important to figure out how to move on. What do you think would happen if you went back to the couch thread and posted that you were sincere in the apology and you are trying to move on, and then say whatever it is that you want to post? I think that the people there would support you in this. It does mean taking a risk and making a leap. But you have that courage.

I think the other important thing to remember is that most of us default to our old patterns of responding, both emotionally and behaviorally, when we're scared. So when you got unnerved, the reaction you're feeling and the things that have flowed from that have probably been more a reflex and a reaction rather than a product of your deliberate and conscious choice. Be kind to yourself about this, as we all fall through that trap door. But when you get some distance from it, you can be reflective rather than reflexive. That is how to move forward-- I don't think the behavior itself is as important as the driving force underneath. It doesn't so much matter what you do, but do it consciously, deliberately, without being gripped by your past patterns.

Chopin, I am learning that even on PC not everyone will like you and when they dont its ok because there are 10 that will for every one that wont. Be you and dont worry about the rest. If someone doesnt like you its probably more about them then you... Minimum, its a choice they have.

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by earthmamma

The need you have will remain until worked through. I'm afraid avoidence isn't change. I'd just carry on working in therapy and doing whatever you need to do to satisfy the need.

Thanks Earthmamma. This is key. What my T is trying to teach me now is how to meet my own needs because we cannot rely on others to meet our needs for us. Others cannot always be there. According to her (and upon reflection, believe it's right), I ask others to help meet needs in a manipulative manner at times...unconsciously. Even she is susceptible to my manipulation at times and she has admitted it and let me know that was her problem, not mine.

I mentioned selfishness and I am selfish at times, but the underlying issue here has to do with manipulativeness. I think I'm not being manipulative, but I am. H is helping me recognize when I am asking something in a manipulative way. So is T.

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

I think it's really important to distinguish between behavior and a person. All of us can act selfishly, or with manipulation, or be hard headed, or disagree badly. That doesn't make us those kinds of people.

I think you said in your reply up there that you don't know how to move on when you feel ashamed of something you've done. This seems to me to be really key. As you said, you don't want to walk about in the world avoiding relationships or situations where you have made a mistake. It's important to figure out how to move on. What do you think would happen if you went back to the couch thread and posted that you were sincere in the apology and you are trying to move on, and then say whatever it is that you want to post? I think that the people there would support you in this. It does mean taking a risk and making a leap. But you have that courage.

I think the other important thing to remember is that most of us default to our old patterns of responding, both emotionally and behaviorally, when we're scared. So when you got unnerved, the reaction you're feeling and the things that have flowed from that have probably been more a reflex and a reaction rather than a product of your deliberate and conscious choice. Be kind to yourself about this, as we all fall through that trap door. But when you get some distance from it, you can be reflective rather than reflexive. That is how to move forward-- I don't think the behavior itself is as important as the driving force underneath. It doesn't so much matter what you do, but do it consciously, deliberately, without being gripped by your past patterns.

True. It is similar to the difference between shame and guilt. Guilt is healthy; "I did something that goes against my values." Shame is not; "I did something and it defines me as an inherently bad person."

I have already returned to the couch with seemingly mixed reaction and that's okay.

Your last paragraph is very true; response rather than reaction. I have come to some good realizations this weekend. Time to work on those things. I don't believe in coincidence. Everything happens for a reason, good or bad. All this happened for a reason, and that helps keep me going!

Chopin (((((hugs))))))
I have never percieved any of your posts as manipulaptive or selfish and you have always been there to support others. I really enjoy reading your posts about your therapy and I have missed them lately.

[SallyBrown]

Chopin, I think your response to Anne was great. I was worried about how you'd take what she said, but I can tell you're trying here. I agree with her reading of your original post, and I too am concerned about your avoiding the shame of returning to a relation where you might have messed up in some way. And I think your T has the right idea about manipulative behavior.

I'm going to answer your questions by lumping the first and third together, then going to the second.

The words "selfish" and "offended" aren't really the right words to me, but there are some times where on the surface your behavior might be "selfish", and I wanted to use a time I was not so much offended but caught off-guard by something you posted as an example.

I don't remember exactly what it was about, but you were concerned by the unusual way in which your boss had requested a task from you -- or perhaps did not request a task, I don't remember -- anyway it was some kind of instruction that came from him while he was away. He was traveling to go to a family member's funeral. You kind of freaked out by some implications of what he said, which was unusual, and were reading into what he said and you were contemplating calling him for some reassurance about it.

Now, part of the reason my initial reaction was WHOA was that at that time, I was in the midst of a year in which I would go to four funerals and/or memorial services. One was an old but very very dear relative, the other three were taken before their time. I cannot adequately describe the grief present in the room where the body/ashes of someone who has died young lie (one was 12 years old). Three of them were family members, and of course, there is the accompanying horror of family politics and power plays that enter the mix at such a terrible time. So I could very much relate to your boss, the stress he must have been under. And when I thought about one of my coworkers calling me with a question about whether I was upset with them while I was away during those periods of grieving, I felt a lot of shock and... not anger, but frustration.

It's easy to think, "How selfish!" But from what I know about you, and certain things I can really relate to that you've talked about here, like having an emotionally distant mom, I also felt very strongly empathetic. From my perspective, what appeared to be happening was that you are so acutely aware of slight behavioral changes (probably an emotional survival mechanism from childhood), that the subtlest ones can send you into a tailspin and it feels unbearable not to know if those changes are because of you. Those unbearable feelings take over, and whatever is going on with the other person goes out the window, in a way. In one way you're very aware of the other person, in that you are perceptive of the details of their behavior and have a good memory for things they have revealed about themselves in the past. But in another, you aren't, because you can sort of let the part of you that is convinced that something has to do with you take over and build up steam. By the time a confrontation happens, you have this whole thing that's gone on in your head and it doesn't really give the other person a chance to actually be present as him/herself.

Now I don't claim to be totally accurate there, I am just telling you what I think, and being honest with you.

As for whether your posts have changed, no, I don't think so, I mean they are different but we all change over time. The one thing I might say is that this fear seems to occur more and more with people here at PC, rather than being more restricted to people IRL. For instance, your talking about feeling like a "pariah" on the couch. That's not how I feel about you at all, and in fact it's a little upsetting to see you declare that, because then what can I do? It seems to not matter how I really feel.

And I don't think it has to be all-or-nothing with how you deal with PC. Perhaps restricting it carefully... choose two or three days a week to come here, and DON'T come in between, not even as a lurker. And don't respond out of anger, just leave that thread/PM/whatever, and see if you're still angry by your next "PC day". Even if you are, you're probably going to be able to be more reasonable than you would be in the moment. Just a thought.

This is an intense place and I hope you find a way to relate that works well for YOU .

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by SallyBrown

Chopin, I think your response to Anne was great. I was worried about how you'd take what she said, but I can tell you're trying here. I agree with her reading of your original post, and I too am concerned about your avoiding the shame of returning to a relation where you might have messed up in some way. And I think your T has the right idea about manipulative behavior.

No, I get it. I've returned and I know T is right.

Originally Posted by SallyBrown

I don't remember exactly what it was about, but you were concerned by the unusual way in which your boss had requested a task from you -- or perhaps did not request a task, I don't remember -- anyway it was some kind of instruction that came from him while he was away. He was traveling to go to a family member's funeral. You kind of freaked out by some implications of what he said, which was unusual, and were reading into what he said and you were contemplating calling him for some reassurance about it.

Now, part of the reason my initial reaction was WHOA was that at that time, I was in the midst of a year in which I would go to four funerals and/or memorial services. One was an old but very very dear relative, the other three were taken before their time. I cannot adequately describe the grief present in the room where the body/ashes of someone who has died young lie (one was 12 years old). Three of them were family members, and of course, there is the accompanying horror of family politics and power plays that enter the mix at such a terrible time. So I could very much relate to your boss, the stress he must have been under. And when I thought about one of my coworkers calling me with a question about whether I was upset with them while I was away during those periods of grieving, I felt a lot of shock and... not anger, but frustration.

It's easy to think, "How selfish!" But from what I know about you, and certain things I can really relate to that you've talked about here, like having an emotionally distant mom, I also felt very strongly empathetic. From my perspective, what appeared to be happening was that you are so acutely aware of slight behavioral changes (probably an emotional survival mechanism from childhood), that the subtlest ones can send you into a tailspin and it feels unbearable not to know if those changes are because of you. Those unbearable feelings take over, and whatever is going on with the other person goes out the window, in a way. In one way you're very aware of the other person, in that you are perceptive of the details of their behavior and have a good memory for things they have revealed about themselves in the past. But in another, you aren't, because you can sort of let the part of you that is convinced that something has to do with you take over and build up steam. By the time a confrontation happens, you have this whole thing that's gone on in your head and it doesn't really give the other person a chance to actually be present as him/herself.

I also remember the episode but not the details. I know the death my boss was dealing with was his MIL. He wasn't saddened over her death; his W was abused by her parents. He was more distressed over dealing with W's brother who is schizophrenic and property.

Your description of the way I act in the last paragraph is very accurate.

Originally Posted by SallyBrown

As for whether your posts have changed, no, I don't think so, I mean they are different but we all change over time. The one thing I might say is that this fear seems to occur more and more with people here at PC, rather than being more restricted to people IRL. For instance, your talking about feeling like a "pariah" on the couch. That's not how I feel about you at all, and in fact it's a little upsetting to see you declare that, because then what can I do? It seems to not matter how I really feel.

I own that feeling like a pariah is how I feel. It has nothing to do with anyone else.

Originally Posted by SallyBrown

And I don't think it has to be all-or-nothing with how you deal with PC. Perhaps restricting it carefully... choose two or three days a week to come here, and DON'T come in between, not even as a lurker. And don't respond out of anger, just leave that thread/PM/whatever, and see if you're still angry by your next "PC day". Even if you are, you're probably going to be able to be more reasonable than you would be in the moment. Just a thought.

This is an intense place and I hope you find a way to relate that works well for YOU .

I plan to restrict, but right now I am still dealing with obsession and that is on ME. I said I needed to get up and do something else, but yet, here I am. Now I am going to take my own advice and go.

I did want to thank you for your logical and understanding insight. I am trying. I really am.

[~EnlightenMe~]

((((Chopin)))),
I think that this was a brave post that you made, and you listened to what people said and took in what you thought was helpful. You have really made so much progress, and this gives me hope as someone who has BPD. Thank you for being so honest in your posting, it seems to be really helping you and giving you perspective, but know that it also is showing others that there is hope that feeling suspended in BPD land doesn't have to last forever. Because most times it feels like it will. Take care.

[adel34]

Hi Chopin,
I first want to say I wish I had your courage and willingness to hear honest feed back that you have in order to even post this question.
I've personally never experienced you as having poor social skills. Although I understand the feeling, as I've felt like I don't fit in/ know how to do relationships very well my whole life too.
I also didn't know you have BPD, but from what I've read on it it's a very complex condition that takes a lot of vigilance and continued support from others, as well as willingness from the person to keep working on it. I see you as someone extremely compassionate and caring who wants to help others. So congratulations on how far you've come already!
To your questions: I don't see you as attention-seeking or manipulative. I've never been offended by you. I honestly forget the other questions, but basically I think you' About leaving the forum, I think you should follow your heart on that one. There's a big area of middle between posting on here at the level that you do, and leaving altogether. You could only respond to certain people if that's an issue. You could respond to original posts without reading anything else that's been in replies which is what I'm gonna try and do. You could come on and PM people you feel you work well with, also something I'm trying. It should be up to w you and what you feel you can handle not your t's or husband's oppinion.
I really hope this helps.

[CantExplain]

These are my questions:
1. Do I come across as:
a) selfish NO
b) manipulative NO
c) attention-seeking Vivacious, maybe.


2. Have I always come across this way or is it a recent development? ALWAYS

3. Have I offended anyone and how did I do so? NOT ME

You are very brave to ask these questions. I hope you find the answers useful.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by Chopin99

I have stayed here despite strong urging from my T to leave. My H has also asked me to leave. T believes that this forum is keeping me from forming new RL relationships which she believes I desperately need. I do have a tight, supportive circle of RL friends, but it needs to expand.

((Chopin))

I'm just a little bit sceptical about this.

Is it possible to have a "desperate" need that you yourself are unaware of? Who is "desperate" about this?

Sorry I can't be more help!

[sittingatwatersedge]

1. Do I come across as selfish, manipulative, or attention-seeking?
not in my experience, on the contrary you often have good input for people seeking understanding, or support for those who are hurting.

2. Have I always come across this way or is it a recent development?
as far as I remember, always

3. Have I offended anyone and how did I do so?'
not me, not ever.