[lifelesstraveled]

I just googled a definition and found this:
In any long-term psychotherapy, there are bound to be treatment ruptures. Usually, these ruptures occur when the therapist unwittingly commits an empathic failure with the client. Even the most empathic psychotherapist will, a times, either misunderstand what a client is saying or give a response that is less than empathic. This is usually not intentional. It's a mistake.

I am wondering if I just experienced my first rupture with my now ex-T as of 2 weeks ago, though I could feel something brewing well before that point. I've read about everyone having ruptures with their Ts and was always befuddled by what it actually was....

I had been feeling super misunderstood and unheard and pushed even though I kept telling her that there were some things I was not ready to address. I finally got fed up and a week or so before the I declared I officially declared her as my ex-T I was on the hunt for a new one and then decided I was just going to take a therapy break. I told T this at my session 2 weeks ago (that i needed a break or just wanted to quit) and she told me that I shouldn't take a break, that this is the point in therapy when clients get stuck and want to kick...etc etc....yada yada.

I got super irritated and agitated could feel rage building up and it started to scare me so I told her I needed to be quiet for a second and that I needed her to stop talking. We probably sat in silence for like 5 minutes (it may have been less, but felt like a long time). anyways, I told her I didn't have anything else to say. Needless to say I sent her an email 2 days later telling her that I felt like she didn't understand me and she pretty much confirmed for me that no one would understand me. AND I told her she didn't hear me when essentially I kept telling her "no" that I was not ready to go where she wanted me to go as far as dealing with my history with my mother. I wasn't rude or mean in the email, I just had to get out what I couldn't get out that session b/c I was so shocked.

She called me and asked me to come in today so she could talk to me. I went and I don't remember much, but she essentially apologized for not hearing me when I pretty much was saying in my own words that she was pushing to hard. she apologized for not hearing me and for not meeting me where I was. She said that she figured bc I've made so much surface level progress (going back to school, cutting back on my drinking, etc) that she thought I was ready to tackle the issue with my mother (by inviting her to a T appointment!). She said after she read my email she realized that I wasn't ready to deal with an emotionally charged issue just yet.

She also told me that 2 weeks ago was the first time she'd ever seen me THAT agitated and aggravated and suggested that I go on med WHAT???? BC one day I am really agitated and almost full of rage, she thinks it's cuz i need meds, and didnt consider that maybe I was THAT irritated bc of HER? I didn't say anything about that I just nodded and let her talk.

I am assuming that this was a rupture....

[JayneJohnson49]

Interesting you started this thread as this morning, after reading the other rupture thread, I thought I don’t really understand what a rupture is so should start a thread to learn. My Google results weren’t that helpful so I’ll be reading this thread with interest.

[stopdog]

I would consider the OP's situation to have been a rupture.

Normal people would use the word fight or disruptive disagreement - instead of "rupture". It is the psychobabble term therapists use to make it seem loftier, in my opinion.

[lifelesstraveled]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I would consider the OP's situation to have been a rupture.

Normal people would use the word fight or disruptive disagreement - instead of "rupture". It is their psychobabble term in my opinion.

StopDog, what does OP stand for?

[Syra]

Originally Posted by lifelesstraveled

...She called me and asked me to come in today so she could talk to me. I went and I don't remember much, but she essentially apologized for not hearing me when I pretty much was saying in my own words that she was pushing to hard. she apologized for not hearing me and for not meeting me where I was. She said that she figured bc I've made so much surface level progress (going back to school, cutting back on my drinking, etc) that she thought I was ready to tackle the issue with my mother (by inviting her to a T appointment!). She said after she read my email she realized that I wasn't ready to deal with an emotionally charged issue just yet.

She also told me that 2 weeks ago was the first time she'd ever seen me THAT agitated and aggravated and suggested that I go on med WHAT???? BC one day I am really agitated and almost full of rage, she thinks it's cuz i need meds, and didnt consider that maybe I was THAT irritated bc of HER? I didn't say anything about that I just nodded and let her talk.

I am assuming that this was a rupture....

Sounds like a rupture to me. And a confusing one. On the one hand she seems she owned that she pushed too hard, and didn't understand. It sounded very sincere and I felt myself softening. ON the other hand, she thought the solution was for you to go on meds (which I assume haven't been an issue before). Sounds like a mixed message.

I don't think all ruptures are fatal to therapy, but I think I should have paid a lot more attention to my exT's response than I did. I assumed, as many do here, that it's just therapy, and the T knows what to do. I was wrong. This T didn't know.

I can't even envision this happening with my current T. We've had disagreements, and hurt feelings. But his response is always so open, and he owns what is his when I tell him, and we explore what is mine, that I don't see a rupture happening. Maybe all ruptures are not fatal, but maybe they are a sign of something wrong that should be fixed?

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by lifelesstraveled

StopDog, what does OP stand for?

Original Poster

[ultramar]

Yes, this sounds like a 'rupture' in that there was lack of attunement, understanding.

But the wonderful thing, is how she responded after reading your e-mail. She seem to truly get it, 'get' you and she's owned her part in all of this.

She called me and asked me to come in today so she could talk to me. I went and I don't remember much, but she essentially apologized for not hearing me when I pretty much was saying in my own words that she was pushing to hard. she apologized for not hearing me and for not meeting me where I was. She said that she figured bc I've made so much surface level progress (going back to school, cutting back on my drinking, etc) that she thought I was ready to tackle the issue with my mother (by inviting her to a T appointment!). She said after she read my email she realized that I wasn't ready to deal with an emotionally charged issue just yet.

The above sounds great to me and I'm happy for you. It may take time to re-establish trust, but this would be understandable.

To me her reaction about the meds sounds rather impulsive. Have you talked to her about it? I suspect she would acknowledge that this was about your reaction to her, but maybe she was concerned about the nature of that reaction. Which doesn't, of course, mean that you have to agree with her about meds. She, so far, sounds reasonable enough, so I think it would be really useful to talk about it.

Lastly, I was really struck by this:
she pretty much confirmed for me that no one would understand me

Did she say this, or did you feel it was implied in some way?

'Repair' can be relatively quick or more prolonged, but it sounds like you're on a good track. Hugs and good luck!

[lifelesstraveled]

Originally Posted by ultramar

Yes, this sounds like a 'rupture' in that there was lack of attunement, understanding.

But the wonderful thing, is how she responded after reading your e-mail. She seem to truly get it, 'get' you and she's owned her part in all of this.

She called me and asked me to come in today so she could talk to me. I went and I don't remember much, but she essentially apologized for not hearing me when I pretty much was saying in my own words that she was pushing to hard. she apologized for not hearing me and for not meeting me where I was. She said that she figured bc I've made so much surface level progress (going back to school, cutting back on my drinking, etc) that she thought I was ready to tackle the issue with my mother (by inviting her to a T appointment!). She said after she read my email she realized that I wasn't ready to deal with an emotionally charged issue just yet.

The above sounds great to me and I'm happy for you. It may take time to re-establish trust, but this would be understandable.

To me her reaction about the meds sounds rather impulsive. Have you talked to her about it? I suspect she would acknowledge that this was about your reaction to her, but maybe she was concerned about the nature of that reaction. Which doesn't, of course, mean that you have to agree with her about meds. She, so far, sounds reasonable enough, so I think it would be really useful to talk about it.

Lastly, I was really struck by this:
she pretty much confirmed for me that no one would understand me

Did she say this, or did you feel it was implied in some way?

'Repair' can be relatively quick or more prolonged, but it sounds like you're on a good track. Hugs and good luck!

Ultramar---I've been on meds before for depression. This was when I was buried in darkness. I don't feel like I need medication now. I am not actively suicidal--though I think about wanting to die all the time. I have never acted on those thoughts, but came close 5 years ago BEFORE I started therapy. That close call was why I started T in the first place. I am no where near that now. I am going to work and doing well at work, I work out 6-7 days a week, I try to eat healthily most days or all days, I am in school and doing well (4.0 GPA).

IDK WHY she would suggest meds because ONE day (out of 3 years) she sees a side of me she's never seen. I think that was built up over weeks and weeks of her not hearing me/pushing me when I kept trying to hit the breaks and have her listen to me. 99% of the time I try to keep it buried because it freaks me out when I get angry at someone directly--I also have a little road rage, but that's it. I have no idea what the meds would do. And I'm annoyed that she even suggested it. Of course I didn't say anything, though I'm sure my facial expression said it ALL.

Also, I am the one who thinks no one could ever understand me (I've believed that for most of my life). T never said that-- ever. She said after reading that part of the email she got the sense that I was feeling a bit hopeless about things.

Obviously the deeper emotional issues (and communicating my feelings) are something we haven't exactly worked on yet in 3 years.

I think that after 3 years we are still building trust. Or, at least I am/was still trying to trust her. After this I am afraid that there will come another time that again she won't hear me/understand me and we'll have another breakdown in communication.

Ugh. I wish I had realized this for what it was before I decided to quit. Or maybe quitting was the only way T could see that she was pushing me too much since my poor articulation of it didn't seem to work. I am wondering if I should try to see if this can be repaired.

I didn't mean for this response to get so long! Sorry!

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by lifelesstraveled

She also told me that 2 weeks ago was the first time she'd ever seen me THAT agitated and aggravated and suggested that I go on med WHAT???? BC one day I am really agitated and almost full of rage, she thinks it's cuz i need meds, and didnt consider that maybe I was THAT irritated bc of HER? I didn't say anything about that I just nodded and let her talk.

I think her suggestion of meds after one display of aggravation says more about her than you. It sounds like she is uncomfortable with clients expressing anger so she wants to "fix" it by having you go on meds. At least that is one interpretation. I see your expressing your aggravation as a way to get her attention. It sounds like you had told her more than once in a calmer fashion that you did not want to talk about the situation with your mother and she did not hear you. Your email and getting aggravated and angry helped her hear you. I think this bears a lot of further talking with her. Can she handle your anger? One reaction of a client might be to be reluctant to ever express anger to their T again if the T couldn't handle the anger even one time. That would not be good for your therapy at all. You need to feel safe and free from censure about whatever feelings you express to her. I also think you showed really good skills in sensing your own anger and taking a little break of silence so you didn't go over the top. This is great! I am proud of you just reading it. I think you handled the situation really well. I hope you can talk more to T and really get to the bottom of this. Perhaps she's been feeling for some time you should try meds and it is not just this one incident? Who knows. Please talk to her.

My last session with my T was repairing a rupture, which we don't have often at all (I wrote about it in a thread a couple of days ago). I think these rupture and repair sessions where we are angry can be really important ones. My T had no problem hearing my anger. If he had suggested I go on meds because of getting angry one time in the last several years, I would have been flabbergasted! And probably even angrier. You wrote that a main issue for you is expressing deeper feelings so here was a situation where you expressed them. Fantastic progress for you! I hate how your T's meds comment seems like a desire to tamp that honesty down.

[Syra]

I wonder if her response to your anger in suggesting meds will make you afraid to be honest in the future. Perhaps understanding more from her would help? I wonder how you will continue if this particular issue isn't resolved - although I am constantly amazed at how things can work in less-than-optimal conditions, so I don't mean to challenge you. Just an honest question I would want to resolve, while I recognize that trying to resolve it may also hurt.

[ultramar]

Originally Posted by sunrise

I think her suggestion of meds after one display of aggravation says more about her than you. It sounds like she is uncomfortable with clients expressing anger so she wants to "fix" it by having you go on meds. At least that is one interpretation. I see your expressing your aggravation as a way to get her attention. It sounds like you had told her more than once in a calmer fashion that you did not want to talk about the situation with your mother and she did not hear you. Your email and getting aggravated and angry helped her hear you. I think this bears a lot of further talking with her. Can she handle your anger? One reaction of a client might be to be reluctant to ever express anger to their T again if the T couldn't handle the anger even one time. That would not be good for your therapy at all. You need to feel safe and free from censure about whatever feelings you express to her. I also think you showed really good skills in sensing your own anger and taking a little break of silence so you didn't go over the top. This is great! I am proud of you just reading it. I think you handled the situation really well. I hope you can talk more to T and really get to the bottom of this. Perhaps she's been feeling for some time you should try meds and it is not just this one incident? Who knows. Please talk to her.

My last session with my T was repairing a rupture, which we don't have often at all (I wrote about it in a thread a couple of days ago). I think these rupture and repair sessions where we are angry can be really important ones. My T had no problem hearing my anger. If he had suggested I go on meds because of getting angry one time in the last several years, I would have been flabbergasted! And probably even angrier. You wrote that a main issue for you is expressing deeper feelings so here was a situation where you expressed them. Fantastic progress for you! I hate how your T's meds comment seems like a desire to tamp that honesty down.

I completely agree with this, sunrise, you said it better than I ever could!

Best of luck Lifelesstravelled, I think you guys can work this out

[lifelesstraveled]

Originally Posted by sunrise

I think her suggestion of meds after one display of aggravation says more about her than you. It sounds like she is uncomfortable with clients expressing anger so she wants to "fix" it by having you go on meds. At least that is one interpretation. I see your expressing your aggravation as a way to get her attention. It sounds like you had told her more than once in a calmer fashion that you did not want to talk about the situation with your mother and she did not hear you. Your email and getting aggravated and angry helped her hear you. I think this bears a lot of further talking with her. Can she handle your anger? One reaction of a client might be to be reluctant to ever express anger to their T again if the T couldn't handle the anger even one time. That would not be good for your therapy at all. You need to feel safe and free from censure about whatever feelings you express to her. I also think you showed really good skills in sensing your own anger and taking a little break of silence so you didn't go over the top. This is great! I am proud of you just reading it. I think you handled the situation really well. I hope you can talk more to T and really get to the bottom of this. Perhaps she's been feeling for some time you should try meds and it is not just this one incident? Who knows. Please talk to her.

My last session with my T was repairing a rupture, which we don't have often at all (I wrote about it in a thread a couple of days ago). I think these rupture and repair sessions where we are angry can be really important ones. My T had no problem hearing my anger. If he had suggested I go on meds because of getting angry one time in the last several years, I would have been flabbergasted! And probably even angrier. You wrote that a main issue for you is expressing deeper feelings so here was a situation where you expressed them. Fantastic progress for you! I hate how your T's meds comment seems like a desire to tamp that honesty down.

Hi Sunrise!!
Thanks for being proud of me!I didn't realize that as using skills. I just felt like I was getting really overwhelmed. I was scaring myself and didn't want to scare T so I had to shut the conversation down for a bit to compose myself. But it's also good that I sensed the anger rather than blowing up completely at her. I guess I was trying to protect the both of us.

T has seen me agitated before which was the result of talking about my trigger--my mother. She just never seen me THAT agitated and aggravated before. In my day to day life I don't go around getting angry at people. I keep most of my feelings to myself and just sort of internalize them. With T, could only hold it in for so long before I started feeling like I was starting to go over the edge. I really don't think I need medication. I need to get it out and I don't think meds would really keep whatever rage I have inside of me from coming out.

I think that I will try and work this out with T---rather than quitting and running away, which is my normal (comfortable) way of handling things.
Thanks Sunrise!

[lifelesstraveled]

Originally Posted by Syra

I wonder if her response to your anger in suggesting meds will make you afraid to be honest in the future. Perhaps understanding more from her would help? I wonder how you will continue if this particular issue isn't resolved - although I am constantly amazed at how things can work in less-than-optimal conditions, so I don't mean to challenge you. Just an honest question I would want to resolve, while I recognize that trying to resolve it may also hurt.

I do want to know why she suggested meds, particularly if anger is not an emotion I typically show ---unless I have an episode of road rage, but who doesn't? I scheduled an appointment with her and I intend to talk about this and I want to make sure that she is OK with whatever comes out during a session, b/c it seems that she wasn't OK with the anger that came out of me.