Neediness in Therapy

Even though each of us obviously have "needs" and are in therapy for that reason, how has your therapist responded to you acknowledging or sharing that you need them?

Is the need accepted and encouraged? Or does your therapist shy away from the "neediness" and push you out on your own more?

I'd be interested to hear your experiences.

I've never expressed neediness to my T. I kind of think he would discourage it though...

Mine just seemed to know that I needed extra care. He has been very nurturing. He keep encouraging me to reach out to him. To call him and or e-mail him when and if I need. If he does not hear from me he always sends a e-mail asking how I am feeling. When He feels I need to come in for and extra session,to process something, he finds a slot that fits my schedule. Fo reasons beyond my understanding It has been very healing and I do not take advantage. I seemed to need that contact between sessions. It really eased up that overwhelming needy, fear of abadonment feeling. It has helped me trust him and to feel safe. I wish I had found him sooner in life.

The therapist has said I am attached to her, and I may be in some negative way. The therapist seems to think it is positive to be attached to her.

i have a feeling if i was to needy to my T she would respond with pushing me as far away as she could . implement major boundaries

I have expressed that I feel as though I am too needy towards my T and that I feel attached to her. I said that I have come to the conclusion it is due to transference and my T agrees. We have been working through the issue together. She didn't push me away mainly because I never act on my feelings of attachment towards her other than telling her that is how I feel.

I email her once in-between sessions as we both find it helpful in getting me to be more open in sessions. I have told my T once that I want her to hug me and she said that it wouldn't be in my best interest. I agree with that although I still want a hug from her. I haven't brought it up again as I am pretty sure she wont hug me. I am hoping on our last session she will though... I try my best to respect her boundaries as I value our relationship and I want her to view me in a positive regard.

Mine told me last time that I need to let him decide when I am being "too needy" because my idea of needy and whiny is NOT in alignment with reality. He also told me that he has boundaries and it is his job to tell me when I hit them, rather than me trying to stay a million miles away from them.

No effing thank you, Mr. T. That sounds icky and I'd rather not be the kind of person who tries to cross other people's boundaries. Gross.

I think he is saying you can come closer and open up more, because you are safe and it's okay...that's how I read that at least. And he clearly seems to trust you and is hoping you can trust him as well? Just a guess.
(I once had a T who was a boundary freak.)

I have way firm boundaries, but I don't consider people who get near them or even hit them as intentionally trying to cross them without more reason to do so. Plus, as long as I am firm about them, what someone else tries to do is not really that big of a deal to me. Someone can try to cross them but I don't have to let them.
Here it could be the therapist is saying you might not know where his boundaries are and that it is up to him to set and keep them - not for you to guess or choose or place upon him. Just my thoughts on it. I could be wrong.

My t has what's okay and what's not okay. Real hugs are okay. Indulging in silly fantasies is not. It's a pretty fine line. It's almost like he can tell if it's coming from an embarrassed place, ie a dissociated space, or if it's my loud raucous self and therefore not great but more acceptable. He's not being judgmental, it's more in terms of what is painful to me and what is authentic and joyful self-expression.

Or it could be painful self expression. I told him today I feared a call from my mother this weekend, and he simply told me to text him whenever. And to yell at her for calling during the hockey playoffs - we've discussed how we haven't been able to take our eyes off the screen during recent games That ddefinitely m ade ne feel more protected, like I got backup.

I have a lot of difficulty expressing my needs and tend to guilt trip myself if I ask for anything, like an extra session. My T says I need to matter more to myself and expect more but it's hard.

She has validated & contained my needs. Showing me my needs are natural & not destructive or unmanageable.

I never realized I had trouble asking for my needs to be met so if I make my needs known in session he will use EMDR to install that. Very powerful. I have less trepidation and have tried being assertive.

is 'neediness' and 'dependency' the same thing?
and attachment is different?

Surely attachment is an acceptable (maybe even essential?) part of the process. T and I seem to go around about this though, looking for support (apparently OK) vs dependency (apparently not OK). Maybe by that word she means neediness.

About a year ago, when I was less than 1 year into therapy, my T went on "staycation." I called him every day on his break for 5 days and then asked him if he could see me at my regular time on the week he was supposed to be off, and he came in.

I would say he definitely encouraged me to continue to call him and he offered to come in and see me if I needed to that week. Each day that I called, he called me back if he wasn't available, even when I didn't leave a message. He always said I could call anytime if I wanted. I always called during the day, and I don't think I would have asked for a session if he hadn't offered first.

He remembered the one year "anniversary" of this particular event as he was about to go away during this time. We talked about the trauma that was historically related to this time, and that was cool. I teased him that I might call him everyday on his real vacation, and he said that I could. I did not.

I don't know that if I were a different kind of person, if my T would have encouraged my neediness. Maybe they worry about creating a dependency if they do too much encouragement or if they don't put boundaries around the needs in some way. I don't know if my T knew that I am not the kind of person to become dependent or develop excessive neediness. I had only called him once before and I think I've only called him twice since then, and one of those times was after I received a cancer diagnosis (not life threatening, but still).

This is how I see it:

When a little child needs something – to be close, to feel safe, it will often climb up onto it’s mother’s lap and make contact – it might touch her face and hair, it might have a hug, it might chat and listen to mother’s voice, feel her warmth and be steadied by her voice. It might be upset and need it’s anxieties contained, to be reassured it is ok. The child needs a ‘top up’, like a re fuelling. It feels loved and whole and then can climb down and go off to play feeling settled and content. It can be independent knowing it can, at any time, go back and be topped up. This child isn’t overly demanding because it is secure and content, knowing it has a mother who can steady and contain it’s feelings.

But, if the same child was to seek it’s mother’s lap in the same way but was pushed away or down, it’s needs refused, then it will become more and more needy and clingy, unable to play alone and becoming desperate in the need to have contact, to be steadied. It can’t play contentedly because it is too distressed . This child cannot cope with not having a mother who is unresponsive and unable to cope with the very normal needs the child has. It learns that it’s needs are bad and that they mustn’t be shown.

The child whose needs were mainly seen and responded to will be the child who grows up to be secure and independent, but also able to reach out to another to be steadied if the need arises - it can healthily depend on another. It grows up to believe having needs is normal and ok and it can get them met.

The child who was pushed away and didn’t get it’s needs properly met grows up to be insecure in the belief it can reach out and depend on another, it believes it’s needs are too much and having needs is a bad thing. It will be the child who never properly became independent, but rather was forced into a place of ‘self sufficiency’ before it was ready to separate and individualise. The child who was pushed away doesn’t learn to become an independent person because in order to do that we need a stable dependency as little ones. We cannot be independent unless we have been able to depend – it’s just not possible.

Take this into a relational therapy and the same thing applies. The therapist who is afraid of the attachment, of the client needing to depend, will push away. The client will become more and more desperate and will likely desperately try to get the therapist to respond. It’s agony for the client – a repeat of the past and often leads to disaster and a reinforcement of the belief that to have needs is bad and causes him to be hurt. The therapist who understands the need, who embraces it and knows that in order to heal, the client has to have been allowed to depend, will allow that to happen. It’s not about enmeshment or meeting the needs of the therapist (although that does happen – it’s not the client’s fault), it’s about knowing that to push away causes desperation, and to allow the client to metaphorically climb on the lap, allows them to internalise that safety and eventually move away and become independent.

So, the way I work, I allow clients to have the contact they need. They know they can contact me if they need and that I will respond. This gives a sense of safety that generally means they don’t need to contact me because there is a sense I am there. I know if I was to say 'no contact outside sessions' it would cause such distress that I may be inundated. This wouldn’t be because the client is bad – it would be because I am not attuned and I would probably deserve to be inundated! I will F**k up sometimes and then it is my job to re attune. This is all worked within a boundaried and safe frame but allows me the space to adapt to the needs of the individual client and be creative in that, just as a mother adapts to her children – and what is right for one may not be right for another. I have to learn from the client and ruptures and repairs are part of that.

So, having needs is normal, it’s about being human, not about being demanding or attention seeking, as many have been told. We are social beings and need a close dependant relationship to allow us to become confident and independent individuals. If that wasn’t given as a child the good news is that therapy can help us to rework something. It can never be a perfect reparenting but it can be good enough in that our brains can grow the neural pathways that weren’t allowed to form when we were little – the neural pathways that are grown during that early dependency on mother. Neuroscience has helped us to see how important that time of dependency is. Brain scans have been taken before and after a long term relational therapy which have shown the brain has grown and changed.

I feel so sad for those of us here who have had therapists who pushed us away but would urge that you don’t give up and go and find a therapist who understands early attachment and who isn’t afraid of their clients becoming dependant and having the need to depend.

Moon

((((Moon)))),
Thank you so much for your post! It really speaks to me. I say that I am not ashamed of who I am because of this, but I am trying to fake it until I make it, because I am so ashamed. There have been a few threads about this, and I have wanted to post but was frustrated because I didn't have the words to articulate why I was like this, and because of that, I then felt like if I can't explain it, then I must be shameful.

Anyway, this is one example of my experience with my T in regard to neediness. In true form, it is a bit lengthy. My T is away for four weeks. I asked if I could email him while he was gone a few weeks ago, and he said yes. The session before I left, I asked him what I could do if the part of me that is terrified and that consumes me with emotions. He told me to do what I liked, like working on puzzle books, taking a bath (I told him this makes me worse because I ruminate), and things like that. I then told him that felt like he wasn't mentioning that I could email because he was discouraging it, because he didn't want to deal with my emotions. Intellectually, I hate this statement, but it was how I felt whether rational or not, and T always tells me to tell him exactly how I am feeling. I told that it would be better for him to tell me I could email him 100 times because it would reduce my need to do so. I was kind of afraid, I wasn't sure if I could trust myself, but in the end of the session he said, Remember, you CAN email me. (He didn't say 100 times (lol)), but as you said Moon, it made me feel safe, like he is still there if I need him. I have three more weeks to go without a session.

I started out doing great, the last session went well, and I had a few things happen and I really felt happy, and this is something I haven't felt in ages. Over this past week, I went down into my usual abandonment anger/rage/despair, but it didn't have the compelling need to contact my therapist attached to it. During this week, on and off, I have felt the anger (self hatred for being needy) while also feeling the sense that I am okay, and it is like these two parts are fighting but trying to integrate, if that makes sense. I also have felt the sense of happiness about the skies being blue and looking forward to summer. At work, for the first time in ages, I connected with a person emotionally when I told them about a wonderful event that happened in my life that was very emotional for me in a good way.

I am feeling good right now, but there are times where feeling hopeful and good become quite frightful for me, it's like I am going along focusing on my life and I suddenly realize that my safe base isn't near but since I know I can email, it is bearable. This part of me also finds it terrifying to consider being okay, because it feels dangerous to not be on the lookout for danger, this part gets really angry, and this split of anger/okay seems to be an ongoing theme. A tolerable one, but annoying.

I haven't emailed my T. If he had said, "Absolutely no contact," I would be focused on that and I wouldn't be free to work through things. This T has been flexible with his boundaries, and with someone who in the past has had difficulties with them. I am so thankful that he truly listens to what I say I need, and he adapts to me. He doesn't ardently follow a guideline that people with more intense needs require strict boundaries because they aren't being respectful because that isn't always what the patient needs. He doesn't shame me or make me feel like less of a person because of who I am, he helps me understand. He looks at the root of the problem and responds in a manner that will help me heal. As a result, I feel empowered, and I feel good about the work I am doing in therapy and out of therapy. Your post, Moon, was really helpful, thanks for that!

Thank you moon for the amazingly insightfully explained post.
Your clients are very lucky to have a t who understands because you ate going thought it all yourself, thank you so much
Antimatter, I am thrilled that t this t gets what you need and is being there for you unlike your ex t. Keep up the good work

I was very needy with t one and I needed her to be there so much but she sensed my need and we had a talk about boundaries and she didn't allow me to contact her after sessions anymore, she also made me take a six month break from her against my will and when I went back she terminated with me After four months, she was not able for me now looking back but I was the lowest a person could get and I had no one else to sit with me and listen and if a t can't cope with that then I have to stop blaming myself for that but it's hard.
I didn't text her a lot, she actually text me first one day outta the blue so I thought it was ok to text her. When I think back on it, the damage age did to me kept me from making so much progress. I can't blame her for everything I suppose but she blamed me for my ex having an affair and being abused when I was younger, she said we attract things to us and she also terminated me when I told her how I really felt, that I couldn't go on anymore and was ready to die

Antimatter - Thank you for showing us a beautiful example of your therapy going well with a therapist who isn't scared of you needing to depend. It sounds like you are better able to hold the good part of him inside you when he is away, whilst also being aware of your rage and upset - that is a very good sign that you are doing well. 4 weeks is a long time but it feels your therapist has given you something to hold onto. Hang in there and keep talking.

monalisasmile - I felt so sorry when I heard your story about your first therapist. You gave us an example of therapy at its worst with a therapist who needs therapy herself to deal with her own dependency issues. How cruel she was to you. NONE of it was your fault. You were doing what you needed to do to heal and she didn't get it.

Moon

(((Moon))) thank you, so much for this explanation. This is exactly how my therapist went about my therapy (She believes Bowlby had it right, years ago). Your words are what she explained to me on an intellectual level for the last year. I didn't have to keep fighting the need or want; If I called she would come; if I called she would come. I very rarely felt deprived, and when I did, we worked through it. The difference between the adult and the child is the cognitive piece. If it didn't happen at the moment of the need, the need would eventually be met. I have now been filled up. What was missing - I never knew what was missing - is now within me.

After 14 months of seeing her ~3 days a week, we have reached the termination phase. I rarely feel the need to top off.

I marvel at all the clarity you give forum members as to what's going on with them. Thanks again.

PS: I also did 12 weeks of psychodrama as suggested by my therapist, and that added another dimension, putting me on an even faster track to healing.

I struggle with intimacy and the need to keep people at a distance and not to need anyone. I still remember the sick feeling I had when I slipped in therapy one time and admitted I felt like I need him. It was actually fairly early in therapy, and we were discussing a mutual acquaintance's relationship with her therapist which, in both T's and my opinion, was crossing the line into a dual relationship. I think he was concerned that I would expect similar things from him and was explaining the boundaries of the relationship. I said something along the lines of, "yeah, I need you desperately, but not in THAT context." Then sat there in shock and disgust that those words actually came out of my mouth. He was totally calm and accepting and knew that my brain was leaping to disgust and horror and addressed that with me and tried to "normalize" the need.

Trying to feel okay reaching out to him for support has been an ongoing issue with me and he has worked hard to help me feel safe and not stupid and needy and babyish for asking him for help.

I need my therapist. He has encouraged me to reach out to him when I need him. I almost never call between sessions, but on the rare occasions when I have he has been there to help me. This past Thursday (for the first time ever), I sent him a text asking if our session could be longer than usual. He offered me an extra 20 minutes that day or -- if I could come the next day -- any amount of time I wanted. It was an incredibly helpful session, partly because I'd allowed him to know I needed something. No struggle to get to what I needed to talk about because he was immediately asking to know what was going on. Really intense session. I felt at peace afterward and even now several days later.

((((Buttercup)))))
At the beginning of therapy with my new T, I told him I was terrified of becoming attached and that I wanted to do what I could not to do so. He said something like, You may not have a choice in the matter. This was in the context of a whole discussion, and what he meant was it was okay if I did, and that it isn't something someone chooses, and that we would work through it. In my experience with my current T, telling him exactly how I feel has helped him to be able to help me. I don't think you have to define how you feel ( needy/attached), but I do think it would be helpful if you told her exactly what you wrote here. Keep us posted.

Buttercup - I notice you made a post but can't find it so presume you have deleted it.

I just wanted to say it was a beautiful post - but I can hear how frightened you are - perhaps that's why the post has been removed?

Try to remember that your attachment and needs are ok - part of you knows exactly what you need to do to heal and part of that is to build an attachment from which you can do the work. Try not to fight it, just try to let it 'be'.

This type of work requires us to get intouch with a vulnerable part of ourselves - and because it is vulnerable we will also have needs in that - perfectly normal needs. Your therapist sounds like she can respond to that part of you and that is a good thing. But I understand how, as adults, finding there is such a needy part of us can feel very frightening and humiliating. Hang in there. Try to speak the fears to your therapist as this can be very holding.

Take care

Moon

I had told my T on a few occasions, years ago, that I felt like I needed her, and that I hated that fact, in part because it often felt like she wasn't there. And there was a period when she "allowed" me to need her, in a way, though in retrospect I'm pulled to revise that a little. I have felt for my whole life that I am too much for others. This was what I was always told when I was young. I was terrified that I was too much for my T. And for awhile she reassured me that I was not.

But then I expressed love toward her, and asked whether she loved me in return. I was very explicit that my question was within the confines of the therapy relationship. After what felt like a lot of equivocation, she said yes. I suppose I didn't believe her, because I kept asking whether she loved me, in different ways. At the heart of it, I wanted to know if, after I had revealed my most shameful, neediest self, she would reject me.

In the end, I think my need WAS too much, that I was too much. My T grew frustrated and we got stuck, and I felt like I never wanted to ask her for anything again, except I was also in the impossible position of feeling like I needed her desperately.

In the beginning, I never asked my T for anything. Ever. She encouraged me to start emailing her between sessions, and I did, with a lot of trepidation, again that I would be rejected, and that I would overwhelm and push her away with my abject need.

I've stopped making a point here. I guess the endpoint is that I am terrified of needing anything from anyone again.