[Freewilled]

So I've been thinking and I just don't know if I understand how all of the analyzing about my feelings, how my present relates to my past and vice versa - how all of the attempts at understanding any of this will make a difference in my life. I'm finding myself so confused as to the point of it all in T and I think I'm exasperating him with it all. Am I just holding back out of fear or am I right, that there really is no point to rehashing the past over and over again? its not like we can change any of it...So how can that help me truly change? I think I might fear that once it's all out there, there will be nothing to do with it and T will be done with me /:

[unaluna]

I cant find it now - what was that cartoon about the chocolate factory? I found that helpful as to why.

[lunipip]

The past will not change but it's a chance for you to process it and accept it in a way that it will no longer interfere with the present. It's a way for you to move on and let go of harmful feelings and thoughts that you may not even be aware of. At least that's what i say to myself when i find myself thinking like you are right now...

Things happen, physically, in the brain when you talk about old memories. It's described here (I don't like the writing style, but the content is interesting)
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/.../brain-changer
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...rain-changer-2

[Perna]

Life accrues; you get to graduate high school after you do 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, and 12th grades, in that order. If something happens in first through fourth grade so you don't learn to do arithmetic easily, that screws up 9th and 11th grade algebra and you get to college and take the simplest math you can find and then computers are invented, you have a knack for them but can't learn to program them because you didn't pay attention in 11th grade and made the decision to take simpler math in college so despite being intellectually "smart enough" you don't have enough algebra sense to be a computer programmer.

Yesterday's actions influence today's. But one has to look at today's problems and trace them back to yesterday's actions before one can learn, "well you can take college algebra and decide to study harder if you want to be a computer programmer or; "gee, your mother getting violent because you didn't do your arithmetic homework (I still see her angrily carving the huge black X across the page of problems in my textbook I was supposed to have done, with that pencil, breaking its point, and knowing she was actually carving a huge black X across what she thought of me. . .) really put a crimp on your style back then. . . what could you do now to help yourself uncrimp in that area so you can tackle being a computer programmer like you would like?

[Freewilled]

Wow Perna - great analogy...I don't want to be a computer programmer but I'm gonna try and think more about this to see why I'm struggling so much with the very process of therapy...thinking out loud here, but maybe I don't want to fully admit I can't be a "computer programmer" all on my own and need help?? /:

[CantExplain]

Therapy is a struggle, for sure.

[Perna]

Can you remember ever really wanting something when you were a child and not getting it?

The last month of 5th grade we took some sort of test that tested our musical aptitude and I scored highly and it was recommended I be in the "band" next year, that I should take/learn the flute. My parents said "no" but did not explain much/very well, did not know to what degree I really wanted to take the flute, be "special", etc. I know now, as an adult, they did not have the money to afford my learning an instrument, especially since I had not applied myself to anything else in my life before that I allegedly wanted to do/be; I was a lack-luster "C" student, was not a self-starter, etc. They could not take the chance on me.

But I'm 10/11; think about what I was thinking, feeling, and "know"? So I grow up thinking my parents "don't care" and that I was denied my big break etc. I get to my mid-30's and decide to take music lessons, check out what is true. I can't take flute, there's no flute teachers in my area, but I can take clarinet so I buy a clarinet and lessons and away I go! Only, guess what? I never practiced and, being shy, my teacher (one-on-one class) keeps telling me I'm not playing loud enough (afraid to make a mistake; had the same problem in 4th grade when the whole class had music/recorder class? I didn't practice then either and would "fake it" the best I could during class when the teacher would walk around between the rows and listen to us individually that way). After a month or two my teacher moved/got another job and I was out a teacher and eventually sold my clarinet back to the music store for 1/3rd it's value, etc.

What did I get out of that? Despite the painful knowledge that I was still a lack-luster student and not a self-starter I was glad I checked out my suppositions from the past, that I checked out whether I really wanted to play an instrument or that was just a childhood fantasy that had morphed into a belief with nothing much to support it. You get too many of those going and you end up with massive disappointment and wondering what happened. It turned out my parents were right and my vague feeling that they didn't "believe in me" and think I would follow through was correct. It hurts to think poorly of one's self but you can't do anything useful with good or bad feelings without first checkout out where they are from and whether they are true or not. In this case the vague feelings go away and I felt more substantial? I could see what my problems were and begin to try and address them.

So, I get to 39 years old and am in an accounting class taking the final exam and am having trouble with a problem at the edge of my knowledge and understanding and suddenly wish I had studied harder. What????!!!! Whoosh! You mean it's all up to me what I study and learn, doesn't have anything to do with my teachers, mother, husband, job, anyone else and what they want? Oh. . . . is that what the "self" in self-starter means I have to decide to do the homework, read the material, study the textbook. You should have seen me when I took the second accounting class, that memory is of wanting to quit doing a homework assignment but I wouldn't let me, LOL. Got an "A" in that course and when I went back for a second degree and then a graduate one, got A's only in all my degree courses.

All because my parents seemed to diss me in 5th grade. . .

[ultramar]

This is something I've found to be really curious -because I've seen others' worry about this as well, that after getting through talking about everything from the past, there won't be anything to talk about anymore and/or the therapist will no longer be interested.

Aren't there other things you could always talk about? Relationships, depression (if you suffer from this), things going on in your life now, meeting goals you want for yourself for the future (in other words, talking about present and future)?

I just don't think therapists are only interested in the past. Or even only interested in bad things that have happened to us. There's so so much more to anyone than the past. Even as far as the 'past' there are all of the years between whatever trauma(s) you have experienced (especially if you're talking about childhood) and now -what about all of those experiences and how they affect you now, in both positive and negative ways?

I know I've had tons and tons of experiences between childhood/adolescence and now, some negative, but a lot of them positive, some life-changing, many I'd never want to change. Even in childhood/adolescence, I'm very cognizant of the fact that I also had good experiences. I think of myself as a whole person, the sum of *everything* I have experienced, relational experiences, emotional experiences, other sorts of experiences. All of this makes who I am today, and makes for a lot to talk about. Not to mention present and future. I think everyone is the sum of tons of things, whether one chooses to focus on one part of one's life or not.

Do you feel -given your fears- that you talk so much about the past *in part* because you're afraid of losing him if and when you stop talking about this?

[Freewilled]

Originally Posted by ultramar

This is something I've found to be really curious -because I've seen others' worry about this as well, that after getting through talking about everything from the past, there won't be anything to talk about anymore and/or the therapist will no longer be interested.

I worry he won't be interested at all anymore and then he will think I really have/had no reason to be in T in the first place....

Aren't there other things you could always talk about? Relationships, depression (if you suffer from this), things going on in your life now, meeting goals you want for yourself for the future (in other words, talking about present and future)?

This is true - there are always things I can try to talk about past, present and future (although my anxiety makes it really hard to keep from drawing a blank and to remember what it is I want to say)....My T seems to think that I'm putting a ton of pressure on myself to perform and that I'm having performance anxiety, so to speak...

I just don't think therapists are only interested in the past. Or even only interested in bad things that have happened to us. There's so so much more to anyone than the past. Even as far as the 'past' there are all of the years between whatever trauma(s) you have experienced (especially if you're talking about childhood) and now -what about all of those experiences and how they affect you now, in both positive and negative ways?

I feel like my T is probably not interested in ANY of it I think that's my issue...

I know I've had tons and tons of experiences between childhood/adolescence and now, some negative, but a lot of them positive, some life-changing, many I'd never want to change. Even in childhood/adolescence, I'm very cognizant of the fact that I also had good experiences. I think of myself as a whole person, the sum of *everything* I have experienced, relational experiences, emotional experiences, other sorts of experiences. All of this makes who I am today, and makes for a lot to talk about. Not to mention present and future. I think everyone is the sum of tons of things, whether one chooses to focus on one part of one's life or not.

i get really jumbled up trying to share a story about something that happened the past week or trying to recall a feeling or express it - I suck at communicating and I know I'm not interesting - I'm boring! I don't feel I know myself well at all so maybe it's hard to talk about what you do not really know.

Do you feel -given your fears- that you talk so much about the past *in part* because you're afraid of losing him if and when you stop talking about this?

THIS. Yes - I am afraid once I am "done" he will be done with me. He will look back over the past months and think "why the **** did she even bother to come in here in the first place?! This stuff is *really* not a big deal and she needs to get.over.it already. I don't have time for this." Dramatic sounding - I know. It's more than just thoughts like this, but it's more the feelings that accompany them that are so intense it's hard to explain.

I must move past all this though because it really is taking center stage and I'm afraid he will get sick of me and tell me he can't help me move past it - that I'm not ready or not something...and I don't want the way my life is right now (severely depressed, anxious and unable to get close to people) to be the way I have to live forever....thanks for the food for thought - I appreciate it

[ultramar]

It sounds like you're having trouble communicating, can you ask him to help you with this? I suspect he could.

It seems what might be holding you back is the belief that you don't have anything interesting to say/your life isn't interesting. I can see how this would hold you back in sharing things, when you're afraid he won't be interested. I don't know if it will help, but maybe keep in mind that you're not there to entertain him, and that's not why they're in this business either. I think most of us want our therapist to like us, though, and I do get that.

I think you must be 'interesting' because you're a human being, however corny this sounds. I think an apparently insignificant event or interaction that just happened last week could end up having a great deal of meaning. Some people have mentioned the metaphor of an onion; I suspect you have many layers, and can use therapy to peel them off one by one, little by little. This takes time and we all have a lot of layers.

If you find yourself talking about certain things because you think he might find it/you interesting -this is understandable, but the important thing is for you to feel better, live a fuller life (maybe), etc. I suspect if you get to the heart of what's causing your pain (some from the past, maybe, but lots of other things as well, I suspect), then you can get to the core of you, and that's always worth exploring, always interesting. Therapy is good for this, most people never get that deep into themselves; it's worth spending the time to get there, and worth it for therapists as well, I would think.

[Freewilled]

Thank you, Ultramar I guess I am a human being so maybe I'm not thinking right when I say I'm boring - might be the depression as I've had this problem on and off since a small child so it has definitely affected my feelings of self-worth....The part where you said you can understand why I might be afraid of my T not being interested or not liking me helped me feel more validated. But you are right, I do feel the need to "entertain" in a way and never really thought of it as Ts are not in it for entertaining either....I don't now why I feel that need but I believe you ARE right in this.

My T actually said the exact same thing about how seemingly small or insignificant events can end up having a great deal of meaning. I think that was almost word for word lol so maybe I need to trust T in that....

I appreciate your thoughtful responses