[tinyrabbit]

Something that often comes up on here: people worry their Ts don't really care, that they're "just a paycheck". I have a theory as to why that is. Maybe it's obvious, but it's taken me seven months to make this connection and I thought it might be worth sharing.

For months, I was convinced my T didn't care about doing his best for me, no matter what he said or how much effort he made. I criticise him for every tiny mistake he makes, I constantly look for proof that he doesn't care and I miss his attempts to connect with me, over and over again. Gradually though, I've built up a mental store of things he has said and done. I have started to notice how kind and caring he is. While I've been biting his head off, he has been telling me and showing me that I matter to him and I've been afraid to believe it. Okay, so I AM a paycheck, but he works hard for that paycheck. He doesn't just sit there and take it for granted. He must care or he wouldn't make the effort.

So why couldn't I just see that to start with? Why is it so hard to believe, so seemingly absurd? Well, I have a theory. The other day, I heard someone say: "Nobody loves you like your mum does," and I thought: but my mum doesn't love me like that, she isn't there for me and she has never made an effort for me. Which got me thinking. For some of us, our parents didn't step up and meet the job description. They expected the job title - parent, mother, father - without putting in the effort, without bothering to do the job well. A lot of us have had parents like this. Parents who taught us that we weren't worth the effort and we shouldn't expect much or anything at all, who made us wonder: "what's wrong with me?" and led us to believe, consciously or unconsciously, that we were simply not worth it. So it's logical that we would expect the same from our Ts.

So I'm wondering: those of you who worry that you're just a paycheck, that your T doesn't really care. Did you or do you have an insecure relationship with your parents? Did they have expectations of you while not giving you enough or making enough effort for you? Did they make you wonder why you were not worth it? And do you think that has made you expect the same from your T?

[CantExplain]

Plausible.

[Tarra]

This is interesting. I also have trouble believing T cares about me - often I think he doesn't care that much, that he sees me as an object to cure rather than a human in pain, or that he thinks I moan too much about stuff that's not that bad. Other times I think he does care, but then an insistent little voice in my head says 'don't be ridiculous, don't go getting your hopes up' - the voice is a little vicious, but maybe it's trying to protect me from getting disappointed or making a fool of myself and then feeling ashamed.

Recently we did a role play, and I was impressed by how good an actor he was - then freaked out that maybe he was acting all the rest of the time in our sessions too, and caring T was just an act for when it was therapeutically necessary. Maybe I should tell him that.

With my parents, I honestly think they do love and care about me a lot. And I know that I'm lucky for that, and should be grateful. (Or maybe I shouldn't use "should" statements about my emotions ) But for whatever reason - personality? background? - I don't think they were emotionally able to show that caring in the way a child needs. I think my dad withdraws into himself to avoid negative emotions, he never discusses them, and so doesn't reach out with emotional support in difficult times, leaving me feeling cut off from him and rejected. My mum provided tonnes of practical 'help', but in quite an interfering way, without listening to whether me and my brother actually wanted help. She couldn't attune to our emotions, she didn't understand or respect boundaries, she said she loved us a lot but also criticised us a lot, and she couldn't control her anger so sometimes would blow up in scary fits of rage, screaming nasty things at us and blaming us for her anger. I don't think any of those things mean she doesn't love me, but maybe doesn't know how to love me in a healthy way

Ugh, I don't know.

It's typical transference. I never feel I'm just a pay check as T has me on lowest end of sliding scale. It's just the emotional side. But in my adult/intellectual mode I know she cares. It's when I slip into my child states where I re-enact feelings of not being 'claimed'.

[feralkittymom]

Captain Transference at it again!

No. Yes. No. I don't know. I do know that my parents loved me, even though that was not something that either of them would ever say. (A neighbour, who was something of a substitute grandmother for me, used to call me älskling which means "darling" or "sweetie", and I remember looking the word up in a dictionary when I was maybe four or five.) But my parents did love me, I just was never good enough, which certainly was no fault of theirs because they supported me as much as anybody could.
But to T, I am a client, I'm his job. He doesn't care about me in any "real" sense - why would he? There is nothing special or memorable about me, not as a therapy client. I'm just a common or garden depression - I have never suffered the horrible traumas that other people on this board have; I am very grateful for that and I don't think I have a fraction of the strength that many of the rest of you display. But if I were my T, which I'm not, I would think deep down that the Mastodon should be dealing with her problems on her own time rather than waste my time with them.

[feralkittymom]

no no no.

I want to know where that 4 or 5 year old ever gets the idea that she just wasn't good enough.

Pain comes in many forms for many reasons and none is more worthy of relief than any other.

[Tarra]

Oh Mastadon

What makes you feel that you were never good enough? Good enough at what?

Children are supposed to make mistakes, have tantrums, sometimes act 'selfish' or not consider others' feelings, get things wrong, get confused, forget stuff and lose stuff. That's just the way children are, (and adults too to a large extent!). If a child feels they are never good enough, maybe the problem lies not in the child, but in the person who is judging the child. Even if they have the best intentions, maybe they don't understand child development, have unrealistic expectations and then make the child feel bad when they can't meet them.

[sweepy62]

You are so right tiny I did have a very dysfunctional childhood and caring from someone makes me feel uncomfortable

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by Mastodon

No. Yes. No. I don't know. I do know that my parents loved me, ..... But my parents did love me, I just was never good enough, which certainly was no fault of theirs because they supported me as much as anybody could.
But to T, I am a client, I'm his job. He doesn't care about me in any "real" sense - why would he? There is nothing special or memorable about me, not as a therapy client. I'm just a common or garden depression - I have never suffered the horrible traumas that other people on this board have; I am very grateful for that and I don't think I have a fraction of the strength that many of the rest of you display. But if I were my T, which I'm not, I would think deep down that the Mastodon should be dealing with her problems on her own time rather than waste my time with them.

I feel this same way, except I don't think any client wastes a therapist's time. And it is me who thinks that about handling problems on my own. But the part of not being good enough for parents nor interesting to a therapist, I understand. It doesn't bother me that the therapist does not care. I find that part quite reassuring. It is not her life and she is not in mine.

[granite1]

I was wondering what was on the list you made about what your T did and said to show you that you matter?

I tried this and for right now cant think of anything.only that she hates me

[elliemay]

Originally Posted by _Mouse

It's typical transference. I never feel I'm just a pay check as T has me on lowest end of sliding scale. It's just the emotional side. But in my adult/intellectual mode I know she cares. It's when I slip into my child states where I re-enact feelings of not being 'claimed'.

For me, this was one of the most important aspects of my therapy, and I'm very grateful (now) that my therapist kept his distance here.

I had to grieve not being "claimed". I really had to grieve not having parents and getting that love and protection. I had to grow up and live the life I had now.

I mean, if I'm not happy with what I have, then how can I be happy with more right?

I realize now that one of the best gifts (and there are plenty of them) that my therapist gave me was his self-restraint. He was with me, but this was a dragon I had to slay.

As a result, I've pieced together a very odd, but satisfying way of being. I definitely do not feel "born". In fact, I don't celebrate my birthday, but the day I "rose".

I got to make myself. It's awesome.

[stopdog]

Is hated worse than indifference?

[granite1]

Originally Posted by stopdog

Is hated worse than indifference?

wow that is a good question. you are so right.hated would imply that the T has to care on some level to experience feelings of hate .I would guess my T is indifferent towards me and my feelings .there for is able to hurt them .I need to become indifferent.i use to be.

feralkittymom, Tarra - that is deeply appreciated. Thank you. I just can't apply those words to myself - if it were about anybody else I would agree.
stopdog, it is reassuring in a way that the therapist doesn't care, but not in the same way for me as it is for you, I think. For me, if T doesn't care, I have nothing to lose by telling him things. I can't lose a regard I don't have.

[content30]

I felt loved by both parents, despite my dad's flaws and addictions. My family did always have high moral and academic standards. On too of that, my nature is to be a perfectionist. So, even though my family was not overtly hard on me, I never felt quite good enough and was always hard on myself.

I do feel attached to my T. I do not feel like just a paycheck to her. With my first two Ts, I wouldn't say I felt like a paycheck per se, but it was definitely different. I did not click with them, and it felt too business-like and not personal enough.

It is a good and interesting theory and is probably true for many or some some but not all. Thanks for the thread!

[Favorite Jeans]

So the way I see it there are two things going on:

1) The sadness that you do not take up nearly the kind of space in your T's life that s/he takes in yours. This isn't the same as T not caring but for many of us there is no getting around the fact that this inequality feels like a bit of a loss or endless yearning. Maybe this is experienced differently by people who got enough from their parents. When you add the fact that you pay them it seems like "geez, I'm not important to them they way they are to me AND I have to pay! They must not care about me at all!"

2) This notion that the financial transaction somehow cheapens the sincerity of a T's care for her/clients (this is kind of the same way we talk about sex work). This is a bit unfair really. Do you think nurses and teachers and caregivers have no feelings for the people they look after? Do you care about your own work beyond your paycheck? (This will depend on how much your job means to you of course... But I bet many of us do). Sure our primary model for emotional work (parenting) is an unpaid job but this hasn't always been so and isn't true everywhere. Do you think in agrarian societies (where wealth depends largely on having children to do work) parents love their kids less than in urban societies where kids are a financial drain?

There is almost always a financial relationship between people who care very deeply about each other (think about marriage for another example.) Often it's a complex affair where one person does a lot of unrecognized emotional work in order to have some financial security. Think about the kind of marriage where the wife provides sex, childcare, a listening ear etc and the husband earns a paycheck. It can be messy and fraught with resentment. Whereas with your therapist it's all there on the table from day 1: The whole endeavour is about the client's feelings and all you need to do is plunk down a check. Your T will never (or should never!) sulk about the dishes or be hurt that you forgot his birthday or make you feel bad for not wanting to have sex or buy dinner this time etc. That one check frees you from all other obligation. Otherwise it could never be fully about you, the T would start to feel resentment for not getting their needs met. And if there's that much emotional reciprocity it ceases to be therapy...

[tinyrabbit]

It is indeed Captain Transference playing his wily old tricks again.

Originally Posted by Mastodon

I don't think I have a fraction of the strength that many of the rest of you display.

No way am I letting this go unchallenged. Mastodon, wow. I would never have said this about you. What a harsh judgement to pass on yourself when you've been suffering so much lately.

Originally Posted by granite1

I was wondering what was on the list you made about what your T did and said to show you that you matter?

I tried this and for right now cant think of anything.only that she hates me

I will share if it's going to be helpful, but I'm concerned it might not be? Because telling you stuff about my T isn't going to clear away the transference you're having with yours... (ie the thing that claims she hates you)

Originally Posted by Favorite Jeans

This notion that the financial transaction somehow cheapens the sincerity of a T's care for her/clients (this is kind of the same way we talk about sex work). This is a bit unfair really. Do you think nurses and teachers and caregivers have no feelings for the people they look after?

You're preaching to the choir with me - personally I never exactly saw my T relationship this way, though many posters say this, which is why I mentioned it. You make great points though! For me it was more a case of believing he wasn't bothered, that he thought turning up and sitting in the room and saying any old rubbish would suffice. That's what transference tells me. So it's not about the financial relationship so much as believing he doesn't think he has to work for it. I do believe he works for it, very much, but sometimes I lose that belief.

My T says I sometimes lose the image of the good-enough therapist because I need someone to trust and I don't have a template for that. So I started asking myself what template I DO have.

[A Red Panda]

Y'know, the booklet my T has me working on included writing down a list of my Negative Rules and Assumptions about myself. The first on my list? "I'm not worth the effort.".

So yeah. I think that my T will do his job the best that he can, but I don't think he would put a thought towards me when I'm not in the room.

[boredporcupine]

I used to think my T didn't care about me, but it was more like I was wilfully in denial because I didn't WANT her to care. The idea of her caring about me was threatening in some way; I think it felt intrusive. But yeah, in the end the fact of the matter is she does care...

[granite1]

it's ok you don't have to

[BonnieJean]

I read this blog entry from What a Shrink Thinks back in 2011 and it put my mind to rest about what it means to pay for therapy and how a therapist can care.
Here's the link to the entry: What You Pay For

And here is the paragraph that summarizes it for me: "You are paying for therapy so that the discussion can continuously be all about you. So that I can, regularly and to the best of my ability, set aside my own **** to meet you on your terms. So that you don’t have to take care of me and immerse yourself in my life half the time. The fee is how you take care of me back. You owe me nothing beyond it. The fee is why our relationship is mutual. The fee compensates me for the inherent imbalance in the relationship. My needs are explicitly met there."

[Syra]

I think what you hit on is probably true for a lot of people, and clients.

I also think some Ts struggle to be with some clients. They probably aren't "just a paycheck" in most caes. The T is probably troubled by the struggle. But some Ts then blame it on the client not doing their work, being "x" or "y."

Some Ts just aren't very good, and don't care about their clients. not really.

But I also think some clients are cared for, and don't recognize it for the reasons you suggest, and some for other reasons.

I thnk it's a very cool insight you had. Thanks for sharing.

[purplejell]

I think what helped me the most to realize my therapist really cares was when I started doing peer support with other people who have mental illness. Being on the other side, I realized that I genuinely felt for my clients, and wanted the best for them and that made me think maybe it's like that for my therapist too.

[~EnlightenMe~]

I sometimes feel like T doesn't care, but I know that he does. There are quite a few articles about therapists circulating around, and although I am one to read a lot about therapy, I really think that the therapy relationship is so unique to the T and the client, based on who the T is, how he was trained, etc., and what the client needs and the level of insight, etc., etc. I think certain threads of therapy may be alike, but that most therapeutic relationships are unique in and of themselves. Just my two cents.