[MotownJohnny]

I was really bitten on the behind by the first psychiatrist for being honest and saying I had suicidal thoughts. So, from that moment on, ONE CARDINAL RULE -- kind of my own Prime Directive -- NEVER ADMIT TO SUICIDAL THOUGHTS, EVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. I will NEVER be put into the position of being forced into any kind of treatment again. NEVER.

So, I have been pondering big questions lately. I can't go on the way I am, it is a Hellish situation, like some kind of purgatory, caught between life and death. I am so torn between believing I can have a future, and believing that getting a psychiatric diagnosis and being sent to a day hospital program was functionally a death sentence for me, just a slow-motion death spiral.

I ponder this constantly. Can I dare to hope I have a future, that I can have a meaningful, happy life? Or, is my "crime" of ending up in psychiatric treatment one so serious that it merits capital punishment? I don't know. All I do know is that a decision either way would be a relief.

So, I was talking about this yesterday with my T. Of course, I CANNOT violate my prime directive, so I would make vague statements about "lack of a future" or "nowhere to go". And, when she pressed me, I substituted the concept of homelessness -- "I will end up homeless" instead of "I will end up dead".

But that is THE question of my life now -- do I dare even HOPE I can have a meaningful future? Or, would it just be more pain and suffering, and would I be better off dead? I don't know. Usually, I have a sense, a flavor, of how things will go, of how they should go. This one, not a clue. All I know is that I need to make a decision and go with it, because the present situation is untenable.

My T basically thinks it's a stupid question -- why wouldn't I have future? As she keeps telling me, no one knows about this unless I choose to tell them. Except for the people that could find out some other way, or the people that find out if medical records suddenly lose legal protection, or if the government decides it really does want to keep a mental health registry like it keeps a sex offender registry.

I still feel that I have no future if people know I spent time at a psych program.

So, is it worth gambling more time, emotional energy, and money on the HOPE I am never outed.

Or, just give in, get it over with, and be done with it?

?????????????????

[Leah123]

I suggest giving her this thread via email if possible, or in person. I can understand your deeply-rooted fear, and for folks with PTSD, serious fears are magnified hugely by the disorder: I know that's an issue for me when contemplating dilemmas like this.

The trick is to let fear be your servant not your master. And I call it a trick because it seems like magic when I can do it, and heartbreaking when I can't. Right now, your fear is disproportionate.

Is she willing to play the good old game of best case scenario, worst case scenario with you, so you can play out these fearful scenarios in a more realistic fashion?

A sense of a foreshortened future or a tragic future is also just a basic symptom of PTSD, so is she able to help you with treating that? I've found that my sense of no future has eased up a tiny bit as I've done the work of processing trauma, all the stuff that led me to not have a sense of a positive, long future.

I am sorry you're struggling with this. I hope she takes your fears seriously enough to bring you to a safer-feeling place with them. You do need someone to trust with these thoughts, I'm not sure how to banish them myself without help.

[MotownJohnny]

I appreciate the sentiment, but I will never tell any mental health professional I harbor a single suicidal thought for even a millisecond. I will never give them the opportunity to send me away again "for my own good". The first time was "for my own good" and it all but destroyed me.

[Leah123]

I am sorry your life has given you cause to be so afraid. It's terrible.

I do know that feeling. Had a bad spell myself, not the same as yours, but... bad.

Anyhow, I've talked to my therapist about all these things, including the suicidal ideations.

You know what she points out when I tell her my version of "it all but destroyed me."

She'd say: Yes, Leah "all but."

You're not destroyed. You suffered and came through that experience. You're here, now, working on being better.

[anilam]

I'm lost- do you really think about mental illnesses being a death sentence? Like you need to commit SUI because you were dx?

[ShrinkPatient]

Originally Posted by MotownJohnny

I appreciate the sentiment, but I will never tell any mental health professional I harbor a single suicidal thought for even a millisecond. I will never give them the opportunity to send me away again "for my own good". The first time was "for my own good" and it all but destroyed me.

I understand the feeling of not being able to envision a future. You are not alone. There are soooo many of us.

There is nothing wrong with being in a mental facility. So please don't feel ashamed. I hope you don't mind if I share some of my experiences with you.

I have been sducidal on a few occasions. I have been forced into an inpatient facility 3 times now for actually attempting suicide. The first time, I was put into a facility in my city. It was horrible!!! Only made me feel so much worse. I refused to discuss my sducidal thoughts with anyone too. I did NOT want to go back there. The second time I attempted suicide, they sent be back there again. I felt like it was a punishment for not being successful in my attempt. I too, was ashamed that I had been forced into inpatient. It was horrible in there. This facility kept track of EVERYTHING you did while you were there, from how much you smiled, slept,interacted, ate, to how you went to the bathroom (yes they asked questions about if I could "go" or not, everyday) it was degrading and shameful. After some time, I attempted again. This time upping the ante because I switched from my usual method of OD-ing to hanging myself. I was literally stopped within a minute of putting my head in the noose for the final time. The psychiatrist here claimed that switching my method was an escalation and wanted me inpatient again. This time, the local facility was full. No room for me. So, they sent me to a different facility an hour and a half away. All the way there (by ambulance??) I was dreading the whole thing. I was sad, angry, ashamed. However, I have to tell you that my experience in the second facility changed everything. I don't believe I'll ever attempt suicide again. I won't ever feel as alone as I did when I was suicidal. I'll never be as hopeless. I still get stressed about the future, but I'm not hopeless. I'm not ashamed anymore because this facility actually helped me. I'm not a complete failure anymore. I'm a work in progress.

I've never really talked about how much I've been hospitalized on PC. Not because I'm ashamed but because I wanted to leave it behind but I really felt compelled to share it with you. I hope it helps some.

I can't tell you all that I learned because sometimes, we have to learn on our own, but I will tell you this, You only have a future if you choose it. You have to face the future without keeping suicide as an option.

I'll be thinking of you.

You weren't "sent away" or "locked up". You attended an outpatient program where you were free to leave for lunch, etc.

You can discuss thoughts about death and hopelessness with a therapist without being hospitalized. You were doing more than just expressing thoughts when you were asked to attend the outpatient program. You were actively suicidal as evidenced by your actions that you have discussed elsewhere. There is a difference.

Honestly, what happened in your case is relatively minor in the scheme of things that could and have happened to others in similar situations. You were not forcibly put in a court-ordered inpatient facility where you could have been kept for a great deal of time if deemed a danger to yourself.

I am sorry this is hard for you to accept, but it isn't a life sentence. People go for mental health treatment pretty regularly these days. It doesn't follow you around like a scarlet "A" on your chest.

My gut feeling about you is that you have subconsciously substituted this "trauma" for the real trauma you have been through in your life, and your childhood was truly traumatic. You are unable to really look at and work through the childhood trauma you have experienced, so you have made this whole hospital program thing the focus of your trauma. It seems displaced. Kind a strange sort of transference or something.

[MotownJohnny]

Originally Posted by anilam

I'm lost- do you really think about mental illnesses being a death sentence? Like you need to commit SUI because you were dx?

I know, it's COMPLETELY irrational. That was my immediate, gut instinct when this happened... August 22, 2012, 3:10 PM, in a psychiatrist's office in Rochester Hills, Michigan, overlooking a Panera and a Best Buy. How's that for irrationally fixated on something!

I have had this obsession with the thought that this is my downfall since that moment - to the point I attempted about 2 weeks later, but didn't go through with it, and luckily, no one but me knew about it, I was discrete.

I just can't shake this feeling. Believe me, I would love to. I have alternated the past few days between researching graduate programs in my field and contemplating buying another unmentionable means of self-destruction. To say I have a problem with this is like saying Hiroshima was a little boom.

[MotownJohnny]

Originally Posted by ShrinkPatient

I understand the feeling of not being able to envision a future. You are not alone. There are soooo many of us.
There is nothing wrong with being in a mental facility. So please don't feel ashamed. I hope you don't mind if I share some of my experiences with you.

....[SNIP]....

I've never really talked about how much I've been hospitalized on PC. Not because I'm ashamed but because I wanted to leave it behind but I really felt compelled to share it with you. I hope it helps some.
I can't tell you all that I learned because something's we have to learn on our own, but I will tell you this, You only have a future if you choose it. You have to face the future without keeping suicide as an option.
I'll be thinking of you.

Nothing wrong with it at all -- I know that intellectually. I know that morally. I know that for everyone but myself. In fact, a guy I have gotten to know quite well who is bipolar and schizoaffective was put inpatient back in September, taken away by the police to the ER, and I certainly DO NOT feel at all about him like I do about myself -- he is the nicest guy, and he has worked really hard to overcome his illness. It was just a medication thing, his Dr. was changing things up and it didn't work.

Thank you for sharing. I know intellectually it's a choice (I keep using that phrase to distinguish between my thoughts and my feelings, I guess the best way to explain it). I am glad it helped you, and I thank you so much for your concern.

I just have to shake this thing, and I just plain do not know HOW to do that. It's like a constant, almost palpable presence that comes in at random times, and especially at stressful times. I can be doing just fine, having a good day, and some tiny little thing will set me off, and I'm right back to that thought.

I wonder if hypnosis would work to drive it out of my mind, or substitute some other thought for that one.

[MotownJohnny]

Originally Posted by 1914sierra

You weren't "sent away" or "locked up". You attended an outpatient program where you were free to leave for lunch, etc.

You can discuss thoughts about death and hopelessness with a therapist without being hospitalized. You were doing more than just expressing thoughts when you were asked to attend the outpatient program. You were actively suicidal as evidenced by your actions that you have discussed elsewhere. There is a difference.

Honestly, what happened in your case is relatively minor in the scheme of things that could and have happened to others in similar situations. You were not forcibly put in a court-ordered inpatient facility where you could have been kept for a great deal of time if deemed a danger to yourself.

I am sorry this is hard for you to accept, but it isn't a life sentence. People go for mental health treatment pretty regularly these days. It doesn't follow you around like a scarlet "A" on your chest.

My gut feeling about you is that you have subconsciously substituted this "trauma" for the real trauma you have been through in your life, and your childhood was truly traumatic. You are unable to really look at and work through the childhood trauma you have experienced, so you have made this whole hospital program thing the focus of your trauma. It seems displaced. Kind a strange sort of transference or something.

The only thing I disagree with in your statement, I really was or at least felt like I was under threat of something worse, forced into this very much against my will. Not through a formal process, mind you, just the thought that, here is a psychiatrist with the power to call the authorities on me if I don't go along with her, am I willing to risk having the police show up and drag me away from work or home. I was SO desperate to keep this a very, very buried secret, the thought of being publicly hauled away terrified me.

I wasn't actively suicidal when I walked into that office -- I thought about it, but had neither the intent or desire to do it -- it was just a mental image of the act that popped into my mind. I actually walked in saying, and thinking, I was going to improve my life. I was, and freely admit, actively suicidal when I walked out.

Your last paragraph is exactly what my therapist said yesterday, except she didn't explain it in terms of trauma, but in terms of the secrecy, the double life I and my family had to lead when I was a kid, acting outwardly like the perfect family, and having to massively cover up my father's actions and behaviors.

It feels like the Scarlet Letter to me -- I wish I knew how to turn it into a virtue and a badge of honor like Hester Prynn did in the novel. Or if nothing else forget about it and move on.

Seriously, maybe hypnotherapy would work? -- I've tried a LOT of other things, so far nada on the results.

[MotownJohnny]

Originally Posted by anilam

I'm lost- do you really think about mental illnesses being a death sentence? Like you need to commit SUI because you were dx?

Yeah, pretty much, I would say about 70% of the time. Irrational, I know. Self-destructive, stupid, short-sighted, wrong. I just can't shake it.

I did, however, in the short interval between answering the other two posts and yours, find a PhD, medically certified hypnotherapist via google, who is located a couple of miles from my office and who can see me for a consultation on Monday. Maybe that will work for me - I just need to be able to shake this, or to substitute some other thought.

[ShrinkPatient]

Originally Posted by MotownJohnny

Nothing wrong with it at all -- I know that intellectually. I know that morally. I know that for everyone but myself.

I am the same way. I have torn myself down in ways that I could never think of anyone else. I still do but I'm working on it.

Thank you for sharing. I know intellectually it's a choice (I keep using that phrase to distinguish between my thoughts and my feelings, I guess the best way to explain it).

I dissociate my intellect from my emotions too. They conflict almost all the time. I'm working on that too!

I just have to shake this thing, and I just plain do not know HOW to do that. It's like a constant, almost palpable presence that comes in at random times, and especially at stressful times. I can be doing just fine, having a good day, and some tiny little thing will set me off, and I'm right back to that thought.

My thoughts turn on a dime as well. The second time I attempted suicide, I had woken up that morning feeling great. I was in a good mood and relatively happy. Then that night my H said something to me that set me off and made me feel hopeless.

I wonder if hypnosis would work to drive it out of my mind, or substitute some other thought for that one.

I don't know anything about hypnosis. However, changing thought patterns has worked for me but I had to learn how to do it on my own. Now, instead, I think about what I want to do with my life. I guess I've found a purpose and I want to (and will) show everyone what I'm truly capable of.
I pray you find whatever it is you need to overcome this!!

[Espresso]

What I've found with different therapists/psychiatrists is that the mention of suicidal ideation does not necessarily lead to hospitalization. In fact, I've gone as far as constantly thinking about suicide and having a plan without forced treatment. It was only when I'd mentioned that I'd taken steps (obtained a means of suicide, wrote notes, etc) that they were really alarmed.

I'm telling you this because I believe suicidal ideation is definitely something that should be told to your therapist. I've been burned before too and because of that have had to decide just how much of the truth to disclose in the future. But I just wanted to let you know that the mere mention of suicidal thoughts does not automatically guarantee hospitalization, especially if such thoughts are rather normal for you.

[unaluna]

Well no wonder - Panera. That place always gives me the runs. Unless i just have coffee and a cinnamon roll. But anything with actual food content, im in trouble. If the hypnotist doesnt work out, pm me and i'll hook you up with my t. He's a great guy and he even works saturdays. Altho the room might explode from all the good-lookingness and muscles.

[Freewilled]

I'm sorry - I can relate to your posts in many ways. Although I've never been hospitalized, I am quite fearful (well terrified) of being put in against my will. I also struggle with suicidal and self harm thoughts and have not told my T. I hint at it by saying things like, "I just want to give up" and "I don't see the point anymore." I know my T probably wouldn't do anything with the ideation anyway because I don't have intent and they really aren't supposed to hospitalize someone without intent....I can always say I definitely will NOT do it and it should be fine. I know it's hard though when there is no 100% guarantee.......

[kittlies]

I hear ya, I do everything I can to make sure my therapists have no grounds to lock me up, ever. In the US, as long as you have them convinced that you have no INTENTION, you should be able to safely address the IDEATION. However, I believe that even if you only have ideation and not intention, they can still put you on a monitoring program in which you are required to check in with them at preset times, and if you don't check in, they can have emergency personnel (cops and ambulance) sent to find you and take you in for evaluation, which at the local hospital where I am, means they lock you on the psych floor to wait for 36 hours.

But your T and Dr may be able to help rid you of these unwanted suicidal thoughts, which makes it worth the risk. To me, that's worth it.

I've been locked up twice. The first- I didn't go to therapy, attempted to take my own life and then, not in my right mind, struggled with the EMTs, and was charged with assault, which got me 2 felony charges -if I hadn't come up with bail and 5K for the lawyer, would have resulted in years of imprisonment. The second- I checked myself in, and was out in 3 days.

[archipelago]

I have been harmed by admitting my impulses or thoughts so I understand the fear. Having to be handcuffed and held against your will and treated badly is not anything that is worth it.

On the other hand, if the thoughts are so intrusive that you are desperate, then something has to happen. Perhaps hypnotherapy, but I have done that and I'm not sure it is designed for this.

It may sound like a low level response, but calling a hotline has helped me in the past. They are trained so they don't freak out and know what to do and say. It is anonymous so you don't have to give out personal info that would track you. That way you can be open and honest and not be fearful of consequences. I used to work on a hotline and I rarely called in anyone. Only when it was medically necessary. Otherwise I just stayed on the line as long as possible to help the person work through all the thoughts and feelings.

[MotownJohnny]

I know I need to stop this. It is a dangerous game to play, and it could get me into trouble far worse than I have already experienced.

I have to look forward and stop dwelling on the past. To that end, I filled out the contact request form for the online masters in legal studies program from G. Washington University. A big, positive, life-altering experience like that would definitely give me a different focus, away from the negative.