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  #26  
Old Jan 17, 2014, 11:15 PM
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CantExplain CantExplain is offline
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Music is not such a bad place to start. There are musicians in every town and every school, so you've got a foot in the door wherever you go. I don't suppose there's much money in it (unless you are a star) but if you play and teach and busk you can probably get by.

Did you play in a band or an orchestra or something like that?
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  #27  
Old Jan 18, 2014, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by CantExplain View Post
Music is not such a bad place to start. There are musicians in every town and every school, so you've got a foot in the door wherever you go. I don't suppose there's much money in it (unless you are a star) but if you play and teach and busk you can probably get by.

Did you play in a band or an orchestra or something like that?
There is actually good money in it if you have the right connections, know how to manage money quite well, or get a full time orchestra job which is my end goal. There are also military band jobs which I would prefer not to do but I will do if necessary. The thing is that they aren't much less competitive than an orchestra job and being a trumpet player, a lot of my military work would be playing taps at young soldiers funerals... so it would be really really depressing. But financially, it would be amazing because I'd get all of the benefits that a regular soldier gets. So I can get really great money and really great hours once I really fine tune my playing. The problem is that I don't know how long that would take and I also don't know if I could even pull it off in the end because it is super competitive. But I'm working at it.

I'm actually am a freelance musician right now. And I do get hired. I was actually contacted twice today from two separate clients looking for a trumpet player. And the per hour pay is amazing (minimum being $125 an hour). The problem is that I don't get contacted THAT much. Today was a really strange day that I got two phone calls. I usually get about one a month right now. If I were to become a much more prominent performer and freelance more and more, that would obviously change. But the other problem is that while the money per hour is fantastic, the amount of hours is usually under 3 hours. If I could get a few gigs a week, I'd be in the game. But right now, I really only get one a month because I also had to turn one of the calls down because I wouldn't make a profit with the travel expenses.
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CantExplain
  #28  
Old Jan 18, 2014, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill3 View Post
Your mother never doubted your musical ability, she never said that you can't play well and/or never will play well? That surprises me. What is your thinking about how that happened, given that she criticized and micromanaged everything else in your life?
She doubts my musical ability in that she doesn't believe I can get an orchestra job or play well enough to make a living off of music. But she never said I don't play well because 1) she doesn't understand music well enough to make a call about how good I am and 2) I'm trying to figure out how to word it... no one would say that I'm not good. I'm not trying to say that in an arrogant way. Many people say that I have a lot of work to do and I have a long way to go and that's totally true, but no one would say that I'm not good because I am. I know what I'm doing and people like it even if they don't always think it is the best.

She criticizes how I practice. She tells me that I'm lazy and don't practice enough and don't practice "the hard stuff". She told me when I graduated high school and got into my school that I got in solely on natural ability and never had to do any work to get where I was and that I will start facing problems in music the second that real work was involved. And yes, it is true that I do have to work much harder in college to remain in the spotlight, but waving away all of the hours I worked in high school to get into schools and win merit scholarships isn't fair and it just made me neurotic.
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  #29  
Old Jan 18, 2014, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by scorpiosis37 View Post
I don't think most of us learned how to be functional adults from any particular people or places-- we just had to stumble through it and figure it out on our own, as we went along. Of course, I didn't have a mom at all, so there wasn't anyone there to teach me anything at home and school certainly didn't teach things like how to balance a budget, how to do your taxes, how to manage a home/apartment, how to do maintainance on your car, etc. Unfortunately, when I was 18, you couldn't just google it all either! Now, when I come across something I don't know how to do, I google it, like the other poster suggested. But I think, in general, the fact that you feel unable to do these things is probably the biggest thing preventing you from doing them. You think you can't, so you don't try. It may take you 5 or 10 tries before you master a new skill, but if you try, you'll eventually figure it out. That's how I've managed to become a functional adult, despite not having had any parental guidance or being taught any valuable life skills. While you may happen to know some privileged kids with great parents, I think most of us really have had to fend for ourselves in these areas. If you have the mindset that someone "should have" taught you these things, it prevents you from just picking yourself up by the bootstraps and saying "I can figure this out." Sure, maybe these are skills we "should" be taught... but most of us aren't. Asking friends isn't always the best "go to" option because it can be a lot to put on them, if you're asking the same people on a somewhat regular basis. If they've had to do the work of figuring these things out for themselves, it can be frustrating for them to then take on the added responsibility of teaching you these skills-- especially when there are so many other resources available to you, if you simply look for them. For instance, if you need help with a job application, there are 1,000 examples online and, since you say you're at a University, there is also a career services office that will help you write a resume and fill out applications. Do you know about all of the services your University offers? Most Universities (like the one I teach at) have a department or program that will help a student with just about anything-- if the student takes the initiative to find the right department, show up, and ask. Of course, many students never take the time to look for these resources-- but they are there! College is one of those really great times in life when there are programs and resources to help you. Trust me, when you're out of college and you still haven't learned some of the basic life skills, it's so much harder because there are no longer these kinds of resources at your fingertips, for free or low-cost.
I've been avoiding getting any more specific about my school because I've given enough information about myself that someone could conceivably figure out not just where I go to school because it is moderately well known, but also who I am if they were creepy enough to take the time to look up a studio list and look at our ages. But I'm struggling to communicate this so I will just trust that it won't disclose my identity and that if anyone figures out where I go to school, they wouldn't post its name on the forum.

That being said, I don't go to a university. I go to a music conservatory that has considerably under a thousand students. There are absolutely no programs and resources relating to helping students with this stuff. There are plenty of programs and resources relating to helping students get work in music, but there isn't anything beyond that. There are no departments other than music. The financial aid office is tiny and no one is a counselor by any stretch of the imagination. It's just students who are hired by the school to operate the computers and two people that are higher up that know anything about anything. There is no career services center beyond the music referral service.

I'm also not asking friends on a regular basis. I filled out an application today because one of my friends said she turned down an interview and I was nervous about going in person. I also asked what work experience she put down because I do have work experience, it's just self employed. I wanted to know if she put that down and how she did it.
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CantExplain, feralkittymom
  #30  
Old Jan 18, 2014, 01:16 AM
Bill3 Bill3 is offline
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no one would say that I'm not good because I am.
These were the most welcome and the most heartwarming words that I have read in a long time.



***

How do other people at your level market themselves? What might you do to market yourself more, or more effectively?
Thanks for this!
CantExplain, feralkittymom
  #31  
Old Jan 18, 2014, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by growlycat View Post
"helicopter parents" meaning not yours, but your privileged peers
My mother was a helicopter parent for a while in some regards. She used to stalk my high school grades and email my teachers during the school day and brush my teeth and control everything. But then she kinda just dropped me off at college and left me. I was out of sight and out of mind. That was really hard for me my freshman year because I felt so abandoned and lost. I literally didn't know how to do anything and she wasn't there for me if I called her because she really was never there for me. She didn't teach me to do anything but hate myself and everyone around me. She'd just step in and do everything because she said I never did anything right and she wasn't there for me emotionally either.

I distinctly remember a lesson I had my freshman year. My teacher was angry with me about something. I probably was totally disorganized and obviously not taking care of myself. He asked me "where are your parents? Did they just drive you out here and left you on the streets to fend for yourself? Why do you seem to have absolutely no guidance?" At the time, he didn't know anything about the nature of my home life and had no idea that saying that would be really really harsh. I guess I have improved since then. I don't walk into lessons completely unprepared and disheveled. My mom would totally manage my time and tell me when to study for how long and what to study so I came into school with no ability to manage my time. I got a bit better about that.
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  #32  
Old Jan 18, 2014, 01:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill3 View Post
These were the most welcome and the most heartwarming words that I have read in a long time.



***

How do other people at your level market themselves? What might you do to market yourself more, or more effectively?
The problem is that my entire self worth is wrapped up in music. Which kinda creates an interesting situation because I'm someone who has very limited performance anxiety and I have very little trouble standing up and playing for people. Lots of people if not most people struggle much more with that than I do. But I have tons of social anxiety because I feel like when I play, I know people will like it or at least appreciate it but when I take the horn away, I'm scared that there is nothing there.

Musically? I'm marketing myself quite well for my age. I would be doing slightly better if I had managed to pull together that wedding band so I could be more easily marketable to playing for wedding parties. Right now, I can really only play the wedding service because wedding services tend to be very heavy on classical music and I worked on piccolo trumpet quite a bit specifically for that purpose. But I don't know anyone my age who is doing much better. If I actually managed to get a brass quintet running, that would help but the problem is finding really committed players. I always lose the other trumpet player and/or the trombonist because they are more interested in getting paid than taking the time to actually rehearse and build a group worth hiring. But someday I'll find people who are actually interested in doing that.
Thanks for this!
Bill3, CantExplain
  #33  
Old Jan 18, 2014, 01:51 AM
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The problem is that my entire self worth is wrapped up in music
As a result of how you were raised. Remember that things can change; healing can occur.

Quote:
....when I take the horn away, I'm scared that there is nothing there.
What you have been saying about your playing skills and marketing and getting an ensemble together has been really impressive. I think that in some ways you are like a vault: talents that were stored away in self-defense are gradually seeing the light of day and becoming accessible.
Thanks for this!
feralkittymom
  #34  
Old Jan 18, 2014, 02:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill3 View Post
As a result of how you were raised. Remember that things can change; healing can occur.

What you have been saying about your playing skills and marketing and getting an ensemble together has been really impressive. I think that in some ways you are like a vault: talents that were stored away in self-defense are gradually seeing the light of day and becoming accessible.
That's because I know that I know what I'm doing musically fairly well and I know I have some positive things to offer because I've gotten lots of positive feedback. I also feel like I live my musical life with intention as opposed to just guessing. I make lots of mistakes in decisions in my musical career but at least I have a strong enough hold on the situation that I feel like my mistakes aren't permanent. I can think of possible ways to get myself out. But
everything else in life might as well be in Chinese because I have no confidence in my ability to figure it out and I don't even know where to start. That's why I've recently been looking at jobs that aren't performance based or require any musical skill, but still work in the general area like working at a music store or ushering at a concert hall. I have better connections in that world, I feel more comfortable in that situation, and it would be real work experience working in a retail or just customer service setting that I could use on an application for a job working as a cashier at a grocery store or something if it came up that I needed to do that. So I'm trying to bridge the gap but even just doing that is hard for me to follow or believe I can do it.
Thanks for this!
Bill3
  #35  
Old Jan 18, 2014, 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted by growlithing View Post
My mother was a helicopter parent for a while in some regards. She used to stalk my high school grades and email my teachers during the school day and brush my teeth and control everything. But then she kinda just dropped me off at college and left me. I was out of sight and out of mind. That was really hard for me my freshman year because I felt so abandoned and lost. I literally didn't know how to do anything and she wasn't there for me if I called her because she really was never there for me. She didn't teach me to do anything but hate myself and everyone around me. She'd just step in and do everything because she said I never did anything right and she wasn't there for me emotionally either.

I distinctly remember a lesson I had my freshman year. My teacher was angry with me about something. I probably was totally disorganized and obviously not taking care of myself. He asked me "where are your parents? Did they just drive you out here and left you on the streets to fend for yourself? Why do you seem to have absolutely no guidance?" At the time, he didn't know anything about the nature of my home life and had no idea that saying that would be really really harsh. I guess I have improved since then. I don't walk into lessons completely unprepared and disheveled. My mom would totally manage my time and tell me when to study for how long and what to study so I came into school with no ability to manage my time. I got a bit better about that.
"Helicopter parents" is the wrong term i suppose. I was thinking of privileged kids who have parents who are over involved BUT do it out of love and overprotection. Clearly you had the over involvement without the care behind it.

What you went through/go through is awful. It does suck that people assume a lot without knowing you.

I once had a professor say that maybe I need to spend more time on my illustration work and drop the part time job to focus more... "besides how many cds/dvds do you need?" That was so insulting to me because the job was out of necessity. parents paid my tuition but nothing else and I was scraping by.
  #36  
Old Jan 18, 2014, 02:44 AM
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It's interesting how you say that I don't even know where to start and in the very next sentence you explain how you are starting! You are leveraging your music skills and connections into some "real world" experience that can serve as a backup for you.

It's just hard for you to believe that you can really pull it off, whereas naturally you feel more confident in your strongest suit. What you said about mistakes in music, though, can also happen in the "real world": You make some mistakes and you figure out ways to get yourself out.

When you get down to the "brass tacks" of what you are actually doing, it really sounds like you are growing in your ability to manage your affairs.
Thanks for this!
feralkittymom
  #37  
Old Jan 18, 2014, 03:05 AM
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Originally Posted by growlycat View Post
"Helicopter parents" is the wrong term i suppose. I was thinking of privileged kids who have parents who are over involved BUT do it out of love and overprotection. Clearly you had the over involvement without the care behind it.


What you went through/go through is awful. It does suck that people assume a lot without knowing you.


I once had a professor say that maybe I need to spend more time on my illustration work and drop the part time job to focus more... "besides how many cds/dvds do you need?" That was so insulting to me because the job was out of necessity. parents paid my tuition but nothing else and I was scraping by.

Well, what's really difficult about this whole thing is that my parents have no financial need. My parents are rather wealthy and they said they'd pay for everything. And that would be fine if they didn't constantly threaten to cut me off and use it to completely control my life behind my back. I have absolutely no power over really anything because nothing is in my name. I don't even qualify for tons of things like need based financial aid because I'm not an independent and my parents have no financial need at all.

And then there are people who try to guilt me for complaining about my life because my parents give me money. Or they just assume that because of my ability to get access to some money that my life is easy. And it's just like... I'm happy I've gotten the money that I have but at the same time, I own nothing and my parents are horrible and constantly threaten to abandon me completely. That's get I get so angry when anyone tries to tell me that my parents love me because they fund me. Maybe my mom does in her own twisted way, but it is completely meaningless because if money is how she expresses "love", she is like an abusive partner who constantly threatens me that she'll leave me if I do anything she disagrees with or says she won't love me anymore if I do x. And no one would try to tell me that if I were dating someone who did that to me that he "loved me in his own way" because that's not real love. It's control.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill3 View Post
It's interesting how you say that I don't even know where to start and in the very next sentence you explain how you are starting! You are leveraging your music skills and connections into some "real world" experience that can serve as a backup for you.

It's just hard for you to believe that you can really pull it off, whereas naturally you feel more confident in your strongest suit. What you said about mistakes in music, though, can also happen in the "real world": You make some mistakes and you figure out ways to get yourself out.

When you get down to the "brass tacks" of what you are actually doing, it really sounds like you are growing in your ability to manage your affairs.

I'm growing in that I can recognize that I need a job and I'm trying to just be realistic in where I apply. That is growing because a year ago, I wouldn't have said I need a job. But it isn't enough growth.
Thanks for this!
Bill3, feralkittymom
  #38  
Old Jan 18, 2014, 03:18 AM
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Originally Posted by growlithing View Post
I'm growing in that I can recognize that I need a job and I'm trying to just be realistic in where I apply. That is growing because a year ago, I wouldn't have said I need a job. But it isn't enough growth.
It's great that you can see that you've taken steps forward! Enjoy that ~ give yourself a pat on the back & enjoy the moment, rather than moving onto putting your growth down by saying that "it isn't enough growth."

It takes time to see significant improvement in oneself all over. Some parts of us are quicker and easier to fix. Other parts take a lot more time and effort. So many of us wish that we could be past traumas and better able to handle our lives! We just have to keep working towards moving forward in life, and celebrate our successes to keep us motivated to keep working hard.
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Thanks for this!
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  #39  
Old Jan 18, 2014, 04:14 AM
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CantExplain CantExplain is offline
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I hear you when you say your whole self-worth is tied up in your music. But it's a start! The seed, the spark is there.
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Bill3
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