[CantExplain]

The Classical Model is that the patient transfers his anger, fear and hate from the outside world to his therapist. Then, within the T relationship, he can examine his feelings and resolve them.

But what if the transference happens without the resolution? The patient will dump all his ill will on the therapist and that's where it will stay. The therapist has become a scapegoat and nothing more.

[Freewilled]

I wonder if sometimes the Ts who cannot hold all of the negative feelings any longer might break off the therapy as a last resort?

[stopdog]

Some therapists cannot manage it.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by stopdog

Some therapists cannot manage it.

What does "it" refer to in this context?

[stopdog]

Negative transference

My T once told me that a therapist must be able to compartmentalize. He must keep his own problems out of the sessions. He must keep his sessions/clients separate from each other in his mind, and he must keep his work/clients out of his personal life. Failure to be able to compartmentalize, he went on, is the leading cause of burn-out for therapists.

There is a reason beyond our own welfare for those boundaries so many detest. Those boundaries serve as self-care for our therapists.

That doesn't mean they don't answer an emergency phone call, etc., but they have to draw a line in their mind in order manage the information and emotional overload that could certainly overwhelm them if not kept in check.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by stopdog

Some therapists cannot manage it.

Assuming the therapist can cope with negative transference, what can they do to resolve it?

[tooski]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

The Classical Model is that the patient transfers his anger, fear and hate from the outside world to his therapist. Then, within the T relationship, he can examine his feelings and resolve them.

But what if the transference happens without the resolution? The patient will dump all his ill will on the therapist and that's where it will stay. The therapist has become a scapegoat and nothing more.

Why does the resolution happen or not happen? That is the work of therapy.

And yes, the T can become the scapegoat. It is the T's fault that ..... <x happens>. The client is blameless.-, T is a jerk, find a new T who is .... absolutely perfect.

You nailed it, CE.

[CantExplain]

Ok, so that's the trap. What can be done to break out of it?

[ScarletPimpernel]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Ok, so that's the trap. What can be done to break out of it?

I too would love to know. I'm soon going to destroy the relationship and I know it will be my fault

[tooski]

Keep at it. Don't give up. Once you terminate, then the T remains forever to blame for the failure of the r/s.

Be that as it may, our job is to find our responsibility for living our lives. Other people are unpredictable and uncontrollable ... we can only control ourselves. Before dumping stuff on T and then running away, we need to figure out our part in the whole thing. I've been wrestling with this for over a year and a half, and I think both T and I are both sick to death of it. But I need to figure out what part of the blame is on me. Once I know that, then he gets the rest of it, but at least I'll understand it all and be at peace with it.

At leas,t I hope ....

Make sense?

[stopdog]

I think the therapist has to have the correct skills to handle it. I do not think a client should expect to handle it as their own problem.
If the therapist thinks of it as the client's problem alone, then, in my opinion, it will not get resolved for the client.
How therapist's handle it well is not something I have knowledge of.

[tooski]

My T feels that there needs to be a partnership between therapist and client for therapy to be successful, and I agree. If I could do it by myself, I would, and save myself a bunch of money. But I can't. I also can't walk in and sit there with my arms folded, not saying much and avoiding eye contact, and expect him to magically "fix me". (Oh but I wish this was true sometimes!!)

I believe therapy happens through the r/s - two people, talking, being human, making mistakes, working thru ruptures, etc. That's why I'm trying to answer CE's question about what happens when stuff gets dumped on the T and never resolved. The T gets blamed for the failure, and the client doesn't figure out what their part in the rupture is. So therapy fails. At least with that particular T.

[CantExplain]

But the T relationship can fail, even if it has been a long and fruitful one and both parties are doing their best. And it really might not be anyone's fault. The patient is who he is. The therapist is who she is. Some things can't be changed.

(I'm writing this from a mature and rational part of my brain. I'm not sure I believe it in my heart.)

Going to a new T may be the only way forward,

[blur]

i think the negative transference with T will be resolved when you focus on the person who is really the issue--i.e. your mom. once you grieve your losses in your relationship with your mom, take responsibility for your part (if you have a part to own in it), and start to move on then i'd think the transference with madame T would resolve. this isn't really about madame T but your mom. she probably needs to be more of the focus.

[granite1]

i think this is the point i have come to with my T. i think we are who we are .but i also think i agree with what stopdog said i don't think my T ever looked at my problems as ours to solve at all . thanks stopdog that one comment really put some stuff into perspective about my t

[Perna]

I don't think the situation is static nor does a good therapist just sit there and take it. There has to be something "happening"/resolving or neither party is going to continue with the relationship. A client begins to understand the transference or what is going on does not "matter", is what the client does with everyone and doesn't work and eventual termination does not really change anything as the client was not changed by the relationship with the therapist in the first place. With any understanding though, the client's ignorance gig is up and the understanding continues until the client is in a better place and termination leaves the client better off.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by blur

i think the negative transference with T will be resolved when you focus on the person who is really the issue--i.e. your mom. once you grieve your losses in your relationship with your mom, take responsibility for your part (if you have a part to own in it), and start to move on then i'd think the transference with madame T would resolve. this isn't really about madame T but your mom. she probably needs to be more of the focus.

I focussed on my mum for at least ten years.

The Classical Model says I can resolve with mum by resolving with Madame T. That is the Fundamental Theorem of Psychotherapy. If I can't resolve with Madame T, who is in the room and trying to help me, how can I resolve with my dead mother?

What I mean is, I think I disagree.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by Perna

I don't think the situation is static nor does a good therapist just sit there and take it.

Yes!

There has to be something "happening"/resolving or neither party is going to continue with the relationship.

Yes yes! Keep going...

A client begins to understand the transference or what is going on does not "matter", is what the client does with everyone and doesn't work and eventual termination does not really change anything as the client was not changed by the relationship with the therapist in the first place. With any understanding though, the client's ignorance gig is up and the understanding continues until the client is in a better place and termination leaves the client better off.

I don't follow this bit.

[blur]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

I focussed on my mum for at least ten years.

The Classical Model says I can resolve with mum by resolving with Madame T. That is the Fundamental Theorem of Psychotherapy. If I can't resolve with Madame T, who is in the room and trying to help me, how can I resolve with my dead mother?

What I mean is, I think I disagree.

CE, i'm not sure if i'm misunderstanding how transference resolves or possibly that you are or if there are different ways to do it. regardless, i think the way to resolve anger and blame with someone is to forgive them. give up your anger and accept that you were hurt or didn't get what you wanted. we have to give ourselves the space to grieve our losses and then move on and live again or they will just consume us.

[tooski]

CE, if I remember right, your biggest problem with Madame T, the one that caused you to terminate, was that she wasn't supportive enough. I think there was a specific incident that happened, and you came right out and asked her to be more supportive and she refused, right? Hope I'm remembering correctly. Bear with me. I'm dealing with something really similar right now and want to share in case it helps you at all.

Supportive isn't exactly the right word, but I think it's basically the same thing going on with my T. I sometimes need "support" (contact) between sessions and he refuses. He will only say that I can send email any time I want--and he'll read it--but he will only reply if he thinks it's important, which he puts at about a 90% chance he won't reply.

Well, this is a HUGE problem for me. I need to know that he's there for me and he refuses to give me that reassurance. It isn't that I need to contact him a lot, what I need is that feeling that he is there for me. And he won't give that to me.

It's been going on for over a year and a half, and finally reached critical mass. I realized that if I sent him an email every day and he replied every day, it wouldn't be enough. Because I'd be living in fear for that day he wouldn't reply, and then everything would fall apart. Because it's a bottomless pit I'm trying to fill. I need an absolute iron-clad guarantee that someone is there for me, every second of every day, forever. Ain't gonna happen. I didn't get that as a child, when I needed it, and that train has left the station. I realize now that what I'm expecting from T is impossible.

So I finally realized (and told him) that he is there for me "enough". I'll take it. I feel very relieved, and depressed as hell. But I'm finally over the hump with this and on the way to healing.

Do you think any of this has any relevance in your situation? I really wish I could help you because you're struggling with this so.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by blur

CE, i'm not sure if i'm misunderstanding how transference resolves or possibly that you are or if there are different ways to do it. regardless, i think the way to resolve anger and blame with someone is to forgive them. give up your anger and accept that you were hurt or didn't get what you wanted. we have to give ourselves the space to grieve our losses and then move on and live again or they will just consume us.

Forgiveness is the end of the journey, not the beginning.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by tooski

CE, if I remember right, your biggest problem with Madame T, the one that caused you to terminate, was that she wasn't supportive enough. I think there was a specific incident that happened, and you came right out and asked her to be more supportive and she refused, right? Hope I'm remembering correctly. Bear with me. I'm dealing with something really similar right now and want to share in case it helps you at all.

Supportive isn't exactly the right word, but I think it's basically the same thing going on with my T. I sometimes need "support" (contact) between sessions and he refuses. He will only say that I can send email any time I want--and he'll read it--but he will only reply if he thinks it's important, which he puts at about a 90% chance he won't reply.

Well, this is a HUGE problem for me. I need to know that he's there for me and he refuses to give me that reassurance. It isn't that I need to contact him a lot, what I need is that feeling that he is there for me. And he won't give that to me.

It's been going on for over a year and a half, and finally reached critical mass. I realized that if I sent him an email every day and he replied every day, it wouldn't be enough. Because I'd be living in fear for that day he wouldn't reply, and then everything would fall apart. Because it's a bottomless pit I'm trying to fill. I need an absolute iron-clad guarantee that someone is there for me, every second of every day, forever. Ain't gonna happen. I didn't get that as a child, when I needed it, and that train has left the station. I realize now that what I'm expecting from T is impossible.

So I finally realized (and told him) that he is there for me "enough". I'll take it. I feel very relieved, and depressed as hell. But I'm finally over the hump with this and on the way to healing.

Do you think any of this has any relevance in your situation? I really wish I could help you because you're struggling with this so.

I thought Madame T was enough, and I even told her so. But this incident (which you remember very clearly) capped off a number of similar incidents through the years and showed me that she wasn't giving me enough after all.

[Aloneandafraid]

Originally Posted by tooski

CE, if I remember right, your biggest problem with Madame T, the one that caused you to terminate, was that she wasn't supportive enough. I think there was a specific incident that happened, and you came right out and asked her to be more supportive and she refused, right? Hope I'm remembering correctly. Bear with me. I'm dealing with something really similar right now and want to share in case it helps you at all.

Supportive isn't exactly the right word, but I think it's basically the same thing going on with my T. I sometimes need "support" (contact) between sessions and he refuses. He will only say that I can send email any time I want--and he'll read it--but he will only reply if he thinks it's important, which he puts at about a 90% chance he won't reply.

Well, this is a HUGE problem for me. I need to know that he's there for me and he refuses to give me that reassurance. It isn't that I need to contact him a lot, what I need is that feeling that he is there for me. And he won't give that to me.

It's been going on for over a year and a half, and finally reached critical mass. I realized that if I sent him an email every day and he replied every day, it wouldn't be enough. Because I'd be living in fear for that day he wouldn't reply, and then everything would fall apart. Because it's a bottomless pit I'm trying to fill. I need an absolute iron-clad guarantee that someone is there for me, every second of every day, forever. Ain't gonna happen. I didn't get that as a child, when I needed it, and that train has left the station. I realize now that what I'm expecting from T is impossible.

So I finally realized (and told him) that he is there for me "enough". I'll take it. I feel very relieved, and depressed as hell. But I'm finally over the hump with this and on the way to healing.

Do you think any of this has any relevance in your situation? I really wish I could help you because you're struggling with this so.

Thank you so much. This is so helpful! This is my situation although I hadn't seen it like this. I relate totally. But how do you begin to heal?

[blur]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Forgiveness is the end of the journey, not the beginning.

i guess i haven't experienced this as being a linear process. i have found the maxim to not let the sun go down on my anger to be a good one. CE, have you really been able to grieve the stuff with your mom? i find that it is one thing to be angry but another to actually get to the pain & tears. that is where the relief has come for me. i do hope you find some relief whatever the process is for you.