I don't know if this is unethical

Ok.. What happened is, my son was in a private school in his mid-teens. He was there for the structure, because he was out of control at home. Ok.. The school had a therapist, which I always kept in contact with, because I was so concerned over my son.

I never met the therapist in person. Although I prob did call him too often. Welllllllllllllllllll.. The Therapist was asking me all kinds of questions which I answered.. And somehow, he started playing this game "truth or dare" over the phone.. K...
And it started off ok, but graduated into daring to take off clothes and stuff. k ummm Which I got caught up in and played along. It was oo so daring for me.... and naughty... ok.. I think we may have played a few other times, esp in the evening... All of this happened always over the phone, never in person, as I never met him in person...

Anyway, I didn't think of it as bad, because I wasn't his client. Anyway I mentioned it in group one evening, I guess maybe I felt a little guilty or ashamed and believed it was my fault since I didn't stop it.. Wellllllll group T had a fit. Saying that the therapist at the private school was unethical and if he did that with me, he could very well being doing similar things to the students at the school.......... sooooooo anyway my T actually MADE me write a letter of complaint to the school..Actually my therapist had me write the letter during our therapy sessions. so make sure I would do it. . And well all it did was make me look stupid, etc... think the T was put on probation for a few months....

ANYWay... Was the therapist unethical? Being I was not his client.. Although he did instigate the games. But I played along. My T asked me why I did it.. I said I wanted to find my sense of "womanhood". In other words, women can flaunt their bodies, and tease and play those "female" games with men, whereas I never could do that. I wanted I guess to see if I could be flirtatious, etc...

Oh my T somehow made it all out that because I was molested as a child that I let all this happen.. Which I don't believe he is correct.. But anyway that is how he saw it and said I was a victim .. which I don't see the same as he does.. hmm Am I that dense or stupid to see the real picture here?????

Considering I played along, it was neither the T's fault or my fault. It just happened... Was this wrong??????

Overlook the way this is written because I didn't like write proper. I just spit it out .. So any errors, just overlook them..

I, personally, think this was unethical. You are not his client, but you are the mother of his client.
He should've been more adult about the situation. He should've told you about his feelings and given you the choice to meet in person and see if things would be compatible. If that were the case, you could've made the decision to see him or not to see him.
He, also, should not have continued seeing your son as a client. He took advantage of you, even if it's hard to see it that way.
Sometimes the secrecy of having a relationship over the phone is so tempting. You don't have to get to know that person and you can fantasize about what that person might look like.
Just be careful!

Radio Flyer, I completely understand. Is it unethical? I don't know. It was definitely unprofessional of him, that's for sure.

Please put aside your own feelings of guilt (hope I'm not reading too much into it). I understand why you question yourself, but you gave your T very valid reasons for your own behavior.

So, since I gather that this happened several years ago, would it be comfortable to you to conclude that he was unprofessional? Unless you're upset at HIS behavior, then I don't see the point in planting doubt in your head about his ethics.

I'm willing to be 100% wrong about what I said above, but those are my first thoughts. I might change my mind later after I've thought more on it.

Hang in there,
LMo

That was an ENORMOUS boundary violation on the T's part, and yes, it was hugely unethical. Your T should have made you report the perv to the state, and not just write a letter!

Ummm The Therapist wasn't like interested in a relationship with me. It was more like "phone sex" I guess. In other words, I doubt very much he wanted anything more than to just "play".. Which I got caught up in. I had never ever in my life done such a thing before. I think you are right about the "fantasizing" part.. hmmm

Yes, this happened several years ago... Am not sure sure why it came up now. It just popped in my head. As for the guilt for me, since this did happen several years ago, I don't know how I feel. I am soo good at numbing out things that are not comfy for me... I guess talking about it and seeing others point of view will help me better understand and hopefully put a closure on this part of my life......

I think I do feel worse about writing the letter than what happened..which doesn't really make sense..

See, that is part of the issue.. I am not upset over his behavior whereas my therapist was. I don't understand why I am not upset ..I guess being taken advantage of is or has always been a part of my life. So it isn't new.

I think I am making sense. hmmm

I think it was unethical, unprofessional & scary! That guy seemed to sense your vulnerability & take advantage of it, IMO. I think it is in the same realm as being molested by someone in "authority" over you as he had power over you through your son. My mother had an affair with her psychiatrist & though she could be abnormally sexual when manic, I think he took advantage of her & her symptoms. Sounds like a creepy guy to me, but I don't get the "phone sex" thing.--Suzy

It was "phone sex" and T's, especially men, aren't generally supposed to engage in that sort of thing, especially with someone calling them for help (and you were, to keep in touch with your son's condition, so he was more a family therapist than just your son's therapist)?

Another way to think about it; what if it had happened that way IRL? Would you think it unethical then? There's not much difference just because he's on the phone and can't "see" you. He was "manipulating" you and getting his jollies or whatever. You "had" to call him because he is where your son is so he has "power" in the relationship between you -- would be like secretaries sleeping with their boss to get a promotion, that old sort of problem; you "could" have been doing what you did to get better treatment for your son, theoretically. I don't think you were doing that and I don't think it was unethical or even necessarily wrong on your part (since it seems to have helped you a bit to be more "daring," something you presumably want?) but it was definately wrong on his part, especially since he initiated it.

While you state this person was a counselor, here is the APA guideline regarding such behavior for a licensed psychologist: 3.02 Sexual Harassment
Psychologists do not engage in sexual harassment. Sexual harassment is sexual solicitation, physical advances, or verbal or nonverbal conduct that is sexual in nature, that occurs in connection with the psychologist's activities or roles as a psychologist, and that either (1) is unwelcome, is offensive, or creates a hostile workplace or educational environment, and the psychologist knows or is told this or (2) is sufficiently severe or intense to be abusive to a reasonable person in the context. Sexual harassment can consist of a single intense or severe act or of multiple persistent or pervasive acts. (See also Standard 1.08, Unfair Discrimination Against Complainants and Respondents.)

[b] You can probably search under your State's Professional regulation department for guidelines for School Counselors etc and find similar wording.

Yes, this crossed the line, and I'm sorry it happened to you. Obviously it affected you negatively. I hope you are able to now work through it, and also whatever caused the trigger recently. You weren't at fault at all.

Yes it was definately unethical on the part of the therapist. Regardless of who starts the sexual games and relationships it is set down in mental health rules of practicing guidelines and codes of ethics here in the USA that a therapist and a client cannot have any sort of relationship other then therapy based during the time in which that therapist is involved with the client. Your son was the client so that means you are also the client because your son was a minor and the therapist needed your input inorder to treat your child with the appropiate treatment plans so you were considered a part of the package.

Like my son and I. My son was the one being treated at his therapeutic school but as long as the case coding is and was that I have parental rights I cannot enter into any sort of relationship be it friendship or sexual with my sons treatment team members. Its against mental health rules, guidelines and ethics.

That therapist regarldess of who started the sexual games should have ended the phone conversations and reported to their supervisor what was going on and how to proceed from there - removing him/herself from the case or not accepting any phone calls without his/her supervisor present as a witness for documentation to be used at a later date if needed should sexual abuse charges come up.

If I were you I would be reporting this therapist to the therapist supervisor and the governing agency that oversees the breaching of mental health rules, guidelines and ethics in your area. It doesn't matter how long ago the situation happened the therapist can be placed on administrative leave while all his cases past and present are being reviewed and if they deam inappropiate behavior happened then he will lose his certification and or license and will not be able to practice in the area of therapy profession again which will prevent such things happening to other clients and parents - relatives of clients

do i think the T was unethical? yes, i do. do i think you should feel guilty? no. you were manipulated by someone who was getting his jollies with a client's parent.........

i hope by bringing it up you can find relief and closure and move on. i don't feel that you should feel badly for writing the letter. the man could have been molesting every other student there for all you knew.........xoxoxo pat

I don't see it an issue about phone sex between two consenting adults.

I'm sorry that school counselor crossed boundaries. If he wanted a relationship with you, he should have referred your son to another counselor. Could he not control himself long enough to make sure your son's needs were met first? No. That counselor is dangerous around kids because he puts his own sex needs over maintaining healthy therapeutic relationships. That counselor was more preoccupied about himself than helping your son. I'm sorry. Why would that perv want to see your son get well? As long as your son was in need of therapy, the more time that counselor had to take advantage of you. I'm sorry.

Be angry at that school counselor, not yourself. You were vulnerable and asking for help and that school counselor violated you.

Hi, radioflyer. Yes, that therapist was acting unethically.

You were, in fact, his client, because you were consulting him as the parent of a client, so as to remain informed about your son's progress and to participate, as needed, in his life at the school.

You weren't calling because you met in a cafe and hit it off.

I really think there's not a whole lot of question that what he did was not only unprofessional, but unethical, and calls into question his ability to maintain appropriate therapeutic boundaries with clients, esp. female clients, which I hope he didn't/doesn't have.

If you're remembering it now for some particular reason-- for example, if something in your life now is reminding you of it, or seems similar in some way-- I would definitely discuss this with your own T or your group T.

It may be that your group T mishandled the incident by discussing it so extensively in a group setting. I would have hoped that she could have scheduled a private appointment to work with you on some of why you were drawn into the relationship, and also some of your feelings of guilt or anger at her own reactions of condemnation.

Sounds like there's a lot unresolved there. Also, I'm concerned, if there's any possiblity that you're becoming involved in something that' s not in your own self-interest again.

It's not that you should feel guilty-- it's more that you may, and that you need to work on protecting yourself, and having safe boundaries--

I'm sorry this is troubling you. Maybe it's a chance to work through some long-term issues.

Vautrin

I can't really say anything that hasn't been said already but I will give my 2 cents anyway. I think he was wrong in initiating any kind of unprofessional conversation with you. If he wanted some spice in his life, he should have found it elsewhere, not with a clients parent. You just don't mix business with pleasure, especially in his line of work. Who knows how many others he's done this with, or how many have allowed him to take it further? Kids especially. People like this see when someone is stressed out or whatever and then take advantage of it by making you think or feel like they are helping you or are interested in you and then bam, he has you right where he wants you and can get whatever it is he wants. It just really worries me that a person like him is holding that kind of a position in a school.