Rapunzel

Aw, not 'just' sensitive... Being sensitive can be a wonderful thing indeed. Don't get me wrong, it can hurt :-( But if you learn to have more control over managing your distress... Well... I'd rather be sensitive than insensitive. I'd rather be too sensitive than too insensitive if I had to choose. I think being sensitive is a wonderful thing in the sense that one has more potential to help others at the end of the day. To notice that another is in distress and to reach out to and help them. It might be easier to not be so sensitive to hurts but... You know what... I'm so glad I'm not insensitive :-)

Alexandra,

Sometimes I think that I am too hard on myself. I think a lot of people are like that, as I see it in others all the time. But sometimes maybe I am not hard enough on myself. T would say most of the time it's the latter. Part of what I am working on is learning to see myself as others see me, especially when it isn't favorable. That is hard, but it is important too. I think I am supposed to have the acceptance part down by now, and be working on change. At least that's the message I get from T. Maybe if I haven't got it by now I just won't. I don't know.

Another thing that may be a problem for me is that I think I do have problems with attention. ADD hasn't been addressed because it isn't my main problem, so nobody has really looked at that. It isn't one of my official diagnoses, but I think I have that too, and definitely had some major attention problems as a child (that I was sent to resource to work on for a couple of years). My ADD symptoms are all related to attention and internal mental processing type issues. I never had much by the way of physical symptoms - wasn't hyperactive. I hadn't connected mindfulness to attention before, but that makes a lot of sense, and maybe practicing mindfulness is something that would help me to focus better.

I will have to look at those articles later, as I am getting too tired tonight. I am sure that I will want to discuss them with you.

Thanks again,
Rap

By 'not responding properly' I mean that I failed to internalize positive comments, or even to acknowledge them. My reaction to praise has been even worse. Several times when T did say that I had done something well, or was getting better, the next thing that I did was to confess to hurting myself. Since I insisted on punishing her for giving me praise, she stopped. I wasn't thinking it through, of course. Most of the time I had been really struggling for a while, and had been pretty self-destructive, but was afraid to tell her what I was doing. By the time I started to improve enough to get some encouragement, the self-destruction had already happened and the encouragement made it easier to trust her again, so I confessed. The effect of it was to negate any praise that I got with a display of not really being deserving of it. That is a pattern that I have been aware of for a while now and have been working on as much as I get the chance to, but I did it so many times that now I don't get that much praise and encouragement to react to.

I don't think your T should be punishing you for past actions
I KNOW you are a good person.... she is treating you as if you are not.


Don't we all beat ourselves up enough without "professionals" to help with beating us up?? I think so.

(((((((((((((((( Rap )))))))))))))))

Yeah, I think mindfulness is exactly the way to go about improving attentional capacity. And exactly the way to go about learning not to be hard on yourself too. I guess that people tend to worry that if they aren't hard on themself then they won't change. What I seem to notice more of, however, is people being hard on themself tends to create present distress and also tends to prevent change.

I think most people are too hard on themself. And we see people being hard on themself and we think that we need to be hard on ourself too. That that is the way one is supposed to do things. I don't know very many people who are good at being gentle and caring with themself. The people I know who are very capable of doing that seem to have less problems with change... I guess it could be the case that they simply don't need to be hard on themself... But then it could be the case that not being hard on yourself is precisely the way to go about change.

I find it hard when people give me positive comments or compliments. I've had many years of 'well this was great but that...' or positive comments followed by negative or derogatory comments. When people give me positive comments now I tend to cringe and wait for the negativity. It can take a long time to start to internalise the good comments and learn to appreciate them because nothing bad will follow. It simply takes time...

I went through this phase of thinking that clinician's must know me better than I know myself because one of my diagnostic symptoms was a lack of a sense of self. I always thought I knew fairly much who I was but clinician's thought otherwise. I think I've come to see that basically we differed in our opinions lol. I read a lot of stuff on how I was supposed to be 'attention seeking' and 'manipulative' and a 'liar' and to have an 'anger problem' and engage in 'self deception'. I didn't think I was those things... I mean sure I hated myself but I didn't think I was those things... But then maybe the clinician's were right after all and my denial was just more self deception...

The moral of that is that listening to other peoples opinions of you can %#@&#! you up most severely. Sometimes other people aren't kind. When clinician's are feeling frustrated with us for not changing as fast as they would like they often start blaming the client by making the above assumptions or by saying derogatory or nasty or hurtful things or by blaming the client for lack of progress because 'they can't help someone who won't help themself' or whatever. Taking all their baggage on board can be soul destroying.

It is their baggage...

Is your therapist helping you? She may have helped you a lot in the past... But is she helping you now?

I'm just a bit concerned that she is playing the role of the external critic / abuser to mirror your internal one.

Doesn't matter where fault or blame lies (fairly senseless to engage in that)... Sometimes the fit is just such that the therapist plays the roles instead of transforming for an alternative ending.

Seems like your therapist is finding herself in a role and blaming you... It isn't about blame... Sometimes the fit is such that...

Take care of yourself.

My latest approach is to go out of my way to accept responsibility (or blame - whatever you want to call it) for whatever problems and misunderstandings there have been and for my lack of progress. I hope that she will start giving me more encouragement and acceptance. I wish that I knew what she was thinking and how her method is supposed to work. She keeps reminding me that change is about doing something and not just thinking differently, for me, anyway.

I am supposed to see her tomorrow, but I have to drive through a blizzard over a mountain for 2 1/2 hours (estimate based on normal driving conditions, so probably more than that) to get there. I just have to hope that the worst of the storm is over by the time I'm supposed to be driving that way, and that it's cleaned up or under control. Cancelling would not be good for me right now. I haven't seen her since November, and July before that. We're supposed to go to all f2f and no more email starting now.

I hope that if I get there I'll even be able to talk to her. I'm afraid I'll get mad and/or just shut down.

Rap

I'm a little late with an update, but I did make it to my appointment on Saturday. I always like T better when I can see her in person, so it will be good to see her f2f regularly now. The drive wasn't even all that bad. So strange going in from the other direction though, and I was afraid on the way home I would not think about it and go back to where I used to live (3.5 hours the wrong way).

I took the MMPI for one of my classes, and my results were pretty concerning. High on the depression and social introversion scales (which didn't surprise me), but also very high on Paranoia and Schizophrenia. There were other details in my report that seemed pretty accurate too, like having difficulty concentrating, lack of self-confidence, sensitivity to criticism, anticipation of rejection, withdrawal and isolation, feeling misunderstood, suicidal ideation, sleep difficulties, and even that my prospects for therapy are not great because my "anger and brooding make it very difficult to form a therapeutic alliance." Basically, it said that I am probably a psychotic drug addict with mood and personality disorders.

So, we went over all that, and I understand where that stuff is coming from. I'm not scizophrenic (although I have two blood relatives who are), but my thinking and perception can be pretty distorted. Also, I have never abused substances, or even experimented, but I have always been glad that I never started down that path because I would have been an instant addict. And also, I tend to over-report psychopathology (the MMPI suggested that too). I even have a good idea why. My mother wanted to have kids she could take care of forever. I also remember as a teen thinking that the way to have friends is to have enough problems to be interesting and deserving of help. So my patterns might make a little bit of sense, anyway.

One thing that all this information confirmed is that my perceptions are questionable, because my thinking is wierd and I'm paranoid. This seems to confirm what I have felt for as long as I can remember. If anyone ever disagrees with me, I am always the one who is wrong. Also, everything really is always my fault and I need to take responsibility for it. Those were my rules and have been for a long time. I've just barely connected those rules to this new information, but maybe I will mention that to T next time. Maybe they are a bit extreme, but it seems that they are not as far off as I had started to think they were.

Anyway, I need to start figuring out when and how my thinking is weird, and work on fixing it. Maybe you guys could help me with that and tell me if I am not seeing something quite accurately. Usually I think I do okay where it comes to other people, especially in the professional and educational domains, but I have problems when it comes to anything personal. Feel free to let me know if you detect any of that, ok?

I'll tell you what I see...

I see a sensitive and perceptive individual who has great empathy for others.

And I see you running yourself down...
And that pattern being repeated because you don't think / believe that you deserve any different (you don't know any different).

I don't know what you are working on changing and in what respects you (and your t) don't think you are changing enough...

I've just got hold of this book from the library:

http://www.amazon.com/Using-Psycholo.../dp/1568210442

I've just started reading it. I'm really amazed. He (Kohut) reminds me of Linehan in some ways. The focus on empathy and validation and being non-judgemental. The notion that growth and change comes out of kindness and compassion rather than invalidation and pushing.

Thanks Alexandra. I agree, I am sensitive (which is a good quality in many respects, and also can be a problem in others), and I am empathetic too (usually). Perceptive fits too. I just need to work on perceiving what actually exists and not making it up.

I like Kohut a lot. Let me know how you like that book. I am interested in reading more about Self Psychology, as well as Linehan. And I saw parallels between Self Psychology and DBT as well. They both deal with relationships in a supportive way.

This thread leaves me almost speechless but it's one of the most moving, helpful (to me) and genuine threads I've read. Thanks Rap and Alex.... and Rap - I agree with Alex....

It has been helpful to me too. Thanks for reading, and Alex thanks for the thread.

it has been a cool thread for me too :-)

i love having these kinds of conversations with people. sometimes there is just a line or two in peoples posts and it gets me thinking on something or it reminds me of something...

sometimes i do tend to rave incomprehensibly though...

but i'm glad some of my ravings are helpful :-)

helps me to have these conversations too. oftentimes... i'm talking to myself as much as to anyone else... and oftentimes other people come up with stuff i hadn't thought of and i can incorporate that into my thinking.

((((((guys))))))))