[IndestructibleGirl]

I've realized something that I think is true - of course that doesn't mean it is - but that I can never bring up with my T. I feel so guilty thinking it.

I feel that she quite possibly used me to meet her own needs a bit at a time in her life when she was in between boyfriends and perhaps had a slight lull in terms of her life being full. She told me openly and enthusiastically once that it was great for her to see me for free because it was part way to realizing her ambition to set up a social enterprise for people who need therapy but can't afford it.

I know that she loves/ loved me, but I think her life picked up speed and became full again and she got a wonderful new boyfriend, and supervision probably advised her to think about reframing our relationship into a more appropriate form. So she pulled her head out of her arse and now is being a wonderful bona fide boundaried therapist. But I resent it, because I want the therapisty-sistery-maternal-friend person (can you tell I'm confused?) I had for three months. I'm resentful because before she flexed the boundaries, I had no issue with it being a boundaried relationship. I took it for granted I would never be in any way special to her. And she made me feel special, when it suited her.

Like I said on another thread recently - these things weren't just all in my head.

You don't tell a client that it'd be good to work together because it would be good for us both to be close, and that it would be good for us both to keep learning about boundaries. You don't tell a client that you'll go drink mojitos together over a celebratory lunch when they get a new job. You don't tell a client when their grandfather dies that your first thought is you want to fly to their home country with them to be with them through that, except you don't have a passport.

How can she not know that all the things she said would have an effect? She did know, and she said them anyway, despite also knowing that it was only a passing notion for her to be that close to me and that she would lose interest.

There, I said it. I am now officially an ungrateful, entitled little madam.

I feel like I was set up. I could never win at this therapeutic relationship when it was structured like this.

Paradoxically though, it has healed me in leaps and bounds, so I win in terms of the rest of my life, with the rest of my relationships. But I feel like I need to shed this therapeutic relationship like an old skin.

Therapy is the easiest most fun thing in the whole world - said no one, ever.

[Wren_]

why can't you tell her what you shared here?
sounds like something the two of you really need to talk about together

that's a really tough position you are in

[Leah123]

I so agree that NONE of this is 'just' in your head, and am sorry if I gave that impression in my previous post. What I meant to say was that... the significant, awful-feeling changes in your relationship are having such an emotional impact that I hope you'll give yourself time to try out the new parameters in the relationship and that I think there is a good possibility to resolve the rupture.

I am very sorry your therapist has made this relationship so messy. It does sound messy, and the one part you wrote that I completely disagree with is " There, I said it. I am now officially an ungrateful, entitled little madam." You sound like someone feeling the rug pulled out from underneath, and you are. I know it's complicated a lot by the fact the therapy's free. I know. But you're entitled to your feelings, they are reasonable, and I just hope you two are able to work through them and you can get to a place of feeling more secure in therapy and back on track to more of that wonderful healing that you've mentioned getting out of the relationship many times.

[sweepy62]

Wow, if you really believe that, and its your gut feeling, only you know, she did cross many boundaries, I would share this with her, because, I would feel lots of resentment. I certainly would need closure on this, if I wanted to continue with her.

IndestructibleGirl-

This is too much to not talk to her about. If you don't bring this up to her, you're going to resent it. Big time.

Our therapists will make mistakes, and sometimes inadvertently bring needs into our therapies. However, if it happens once, twice...maybe three times--it can be a mistake. If it happens more than that, it's negligence, imo....and I haven't even read all of your threads.

Moving on sounds like a smart thing to do. I'm glad she has helped you with what she could, but you deserve to have a life-changing therapy.

eta-sorry, I don't know your whole story, and I think my response could have been over-reactive!

[unaluna]

Idk. My t has said he'd "like" to do a lot of things with or for me - i dont mean this as a joke, honest! - and it took a while for me to get it. Like yeah youre smart id love to have you do research for me. That doesnt mean ME actually working for HIM - i think that means, yeah t thinks i could do that job. I realize this wasnt exactly your situation. But my t also said he really wanted to get me a birthday present - 3 birthdays ago! (But who's counting?!)

And yeah they do it when they have time - between love affairs, or their partner is busy at work, or no other client is freaking out right now. They cant exactly do it when they dont have time. Thats why we have to take them up on it when they offer. A few xmas's ago, my t offered to be available by phone. I was like, nah i can white-knuckle it thru. Hes like, dont do that - call me. So i opened myself up to the experience and called him several times. That was MY xmas - he hasnt offered again.

It sounds like youre actually okay with this. Im more concerned about the bad thing you hinted at that happened.

[AllyIsHopeful]

Dayummm Girl! Our stories are completely different but the foundation, feelings, and a certain romantical change in our T's lives are the same! I can totally relate to you with all of this. I think the only area my situation is different is that my T did limited reparenting, while simultaneously treating me like a friend as well. She is my mom's age, but when she studied for her MFT license, most of her classmates were much younger than her. She also mentions how she's always the oldest in all of the seminars and training she occasionally attends, but doesn't care because she loves to continue learning. So I think the mixture of her only being in this country for 20 years and interacting with mostly younger people, and myself growing up interacting mostly with older people/adults made us meet halfway and form this uniquely weird relationship. So now she still interacts with me as a friend, but the reparenting stuff has moved on to the next level, which required a boundary change....so it makes everything so confusing and irritating. She still tells me to make her come to the gym and has joked about us working together or me becoming HER therapist once I begin practicing...but when I go into clingy-little-kid-who-needs-her-mommy-and-feels-like-she-will-die-when-we-are-apart mode, she puts her foot down and goes all "please trust me that I will listen to you (enter time/day here) and that I will keep my word. I need to have time for myself now." JUST like a mom would say to her nagging child.

Originally Posted by IndestructibleGirl

I feel that she quite possibly used me to meet her own needs a bit at a time in her life when she was in between boyfriends and perhaps had a slight lull in terms of her life being full.

Yup yup yup! I know that feeling!

I know that she loves/ loved me, but I think her life picked up speed and became full again and she got a wonderful new boyfriend

I completely suspect my T has a new love-interest who did not exist last year. I don't wanna know. But at the same time I want all the details. THIS IS THE CONFUSION I'M TALKING ABOUT! The kid me thinks it is disgusting and the friend me wants to know...the client me doesn't give a cr@p.

But I resent it, because I want the therapisty-sistery-maternal-friend person (can you tell I'm confused?) I had for three months. I'm resentful because before she flexed the boundaries, I had no issue with it being a boundaried relationship. I took it for granted I would never be in any way special to her. And she made me feel special, when it suited her.

I understand. I literally paid no attention when my T gave me her personal cell # our 3rd or 4th session. I lost the paper, didn't realize or care, and she would always call me from her cell. My reaction was "who the hell is this?" since it was not the office number. lol Finally after 2 months she said "you have my cell, why don't you call me when you aren't feeling well!?" Then I said...."I don't know...." and immediately when I left the session, saved her # as a contact. I couldn't care any less if there were tight boundaries. Hell, I didn't even know what boundaries were...until I realized how uncomfortably close we were getting.

There, I said it. I am now officially an ungrateful, entitled little madam.

No you are not.

Paradoxically though, it has healed me in leaps and bounds, so I win in terms of the rest of my life, with the rest of my relationships. But I feel like I need to shed this therapeutic relationship like an old skin.

The best part is you are able to realize your gains, instead of focusing on the loss only. You do win. Seems you outgrew her and need to either give yourself a chance to do things on your own, or find a new T and start a new chapter.


Therapy is the easiest most fun thing in the whole world - said no one, ever.

Pshh...Wrong. I brag to everyone, all the time.

[IndestructibleGirl]

Originally Posted by tigergirl

why can't you tell her what you shared here?
sounds like something the two of you really need to talk about together

that's a really tough position you are in

Thank you, it does feel a bit tough . I feel as though I can't tell her because she'll get angry and we'll have a whopper of a row that I really do not need right now. I don't want to sabotage my good mental health by getting into fights that can't end well.

Originally Posted by Leah123

I so agree that NONE of this is 'just' in your head, and am sorry if I gave that impression in my previous post. What I meant to say was that... the significant, awful-feeling changes in your relationship are having such an emotional impact that I hope you'll give yourself time to try out the new parameters in the relationship and that I think there is a good possibility to resolve the rupture.

I am very sorry your therapist has made this relationship so messy. It does sound messy, and the one part you wrote that I completely disagree with is " There, I said it. I am now officially an ungrateful, entitled little madam." You sound like someone feeling the rug pulled out from underneath, and you are. I know it's complicated a lot by the fact the therapy's free. I know. But you're entitled to your feelings, they are reasonable, and I just hope you two are able to work through them and you can get to a place of feeling more secure in therapy and back on track to more of that wonderful healing that you've mentioned getting out of the relationship many times.

Leah! No I didn't think you meant that at all it's more that my default in the past was to blame and doubt myself, so I guess I still keep checking it out in my own head - that maybe it is my fault for being a drama llama and dreaming it all up. Except that simply isn't true and I don't believe it. I'm done being a scapegoat (privately, in my own internal monologue) for every emotional flaw in relationships.

You're right too about the fact that despite the fact it's free therapy, I still get to have feelings about it. I think it should still be mindful, free or not. I have dismissed that far too long.

Originally Posted by sweepy62

Wow, if you really believe that, and its your gut feeling, only you know, she did cross many boundaries, I would share this with her, because, I would feel lots of resentment. I certainly would need closure on this, if I wanted to continue with her.

Thank you Sweepy I don't honestly know if I want to press on with her at the minute. I also don't know if I really believe she did 'use' me, or if it just feels like it's true. I definitely do believe she was careless with her words quite often, and that has led me up the garden path.

Originally Posted by skies

IndestructibleGirl-

This is too much to not talk to her about. If you don't bring this up to her, you're going to resent it. Big time.

Our therapists will make mistakes, and sometimes inadvertently bring needs into our therapies. However, if it happens once, twice...maybe three times--it can be a mistake. If it happens more than that, it's negligence, imo....and I haven't even read all of your threads.

Moving on sounds like a smart thing to do. I'm glad she has helped you with what she could, but you deserve to have a life-changing therapy.

eta-sorry, I don't know your whole story, and I think my response could have been over-reactive!

Thank you! Nope, you weren't over-reactive at all I really don't know if bringing it up is acting from a place of promoting my own health and welfare. I'm leaning towards cutting my losses, which seems like it might be least damaging to the good memories and good experiences had to date.

Originally Posted by hankster

Idk. My t has said he'd "like" to do a lot of things with or for me - i dont mean this as a joke, honest! - and it took a while for me to get it. Like yeah youre smart id love to have you do research for me. That doesnt mean ME actually working for HIM - i think that means, yeah t thinks i could do that job. I realize this wasnt exactly your situation. But my t also said he really wanted to get me a birthday present - 3 birthdays ago! (But who's counting?!)

And yeah they do it when they have time - between love affairs, or their partner is busy at work, or no other client is freaking out right now. They cant exactly do it when they dont have time. Thats why we have to take them up on it when they offer. A few xmas's ago, my t offered to be available by phone. I was like, nah i can white-knuckle it thru. Hes like, dont do that - call me. So i opened myself up to the experience and called him several times. That was MY xmas - he hasnt offered again.

It sounds like youre actually okay with this. Im more concerned about the bad thing you hinted at that happened.

Hankster the bold bit made me giggle!

Aye, I get what you're saying about them not doing it when they simply cannot, because they have their own lives to lead etc. Totally get that. But then why set a precedent of it not being an issue? Why not make it clear from the get go about what your boundaries are as a therapist, instead of repeatedly telling your client that they can never be too much? And then changing horses midstream.

Changing it to "You're unconsciously trying to prove to others that you are too much, so you go over the top to fulfill that" which essentially is "You are, in fact, too much." Dressed up as something else. Well, fu.ck that for a game of soldiers! I don't appreciate being lulled into a false sense of security and then having it thrown in my face later.

The bad thing that happened was I was let go from my job, albeit with a great reference. Not my fault, some clients didn't renew contracts so my boss can't afford me anymore. Serious serious economic implications and I am extremely worried - but also thrilled because I'm not turning savagely on myself I'm not plummetting into despising myself.

It was a good test to see how my new self-worth holds up under fire.

Originally Posted by AllyIsHopeful

Dayummm Girl! Our stories are completely different but the foundation, feelings, and a certain romantical change in our T's lives are the same! I can totally relate to you with all of this. I think the only area my situation is different is that my T did limited reparenting, while simultaneously treating me like a friend as well. She is my mom's age, but when she studied for her MFT license, most of her classmates were much younger than her. She also mentions how she's always the oldest in all of the seminars and training she occasionally attends, but doesn't care because she loves to continue learning. So I think the mixture of her only being in this country for 20 years and interacting with mostly younger people, and myself growing up interacting mostly with older people/adults made us meet halfway and form this uniquely weird relationship. So now she still interacts with me as a friend, but the reparenting stuff has moved on to the next level, which required a boundary change....so it makes everything so confusing and irritating. She still tells me to make her come to the gym and has joked about us working together or me becoming HER therapist once I begin practicing...but when I go into clingy-little-kid-who-needs-her-mommy-and-feels-like-she-will-die-when-we-are-apart mode, she puts her foot down and goes all "please trust me that I will listen to you (enter time/day here) and that I will keep my word. I need to have time for myself now." JUST like a mom would say to her nagging child.

Ally Yep, seeing lots of parallels! It is so maddeningly complicated when these things get mixed up. It sounds like it is still working for you? Which is great! How do you separate out the friendship and the reparenting?! Is that not head melting?!

[IndestructibleGirl]

I just caught myself wondering tonight "I wonder if I was just a bit thinner, would she still like me". I know it's dumb and not remotely relevant. But I'm annoyed at myself for thinking the thoughts. I can't look at myself in the mirror tonight, because I see the not-good-enough. And my therapist is very slender, and used to have an eating disorder so I know fat registers on her radar.

I normally, these days, am very body confident. I hope this is just a fleeting mood. I don't think I'm panicking over it - I don't hate my body. I'm just suddenly ill at ease in it.

Had to get this out x

[AllyIsHopeful]

Originally Posted by IndestructibleGirl

Ally Yep, seeing lots of parallels! It is so maddeningly complicated when these things get mixed up. It sounds like it is still working for you? Which is great! How do you separate out the friendship and the reparenting?! Is that not head melting?!

It is only working because I question the hell out of her and now have an understanding of why she is doing it. I realize it is all necessary and not intended to hurt me. I'm not quite at the point where I feel I have gotten enough out of the relationship and can move on and carry all of the things I've learned with me, so I'm just toughing things out.

It is SO head melting!!! Because the little kid comes out very rarely so when that happens, I feel a big sting in her response...I almost don't fully expect that response because I still have the friendship thing internalized. If I were to see something funny or text her something that reminded me of her, she would not care and she responds pleasantly; But when I text her in distress and I am feeling needy, she puts her foot down. I appreciate it very much though, because if she did not do that it would be harmful to me and I realize that now.

Originally Posted by IndestructibleGirl

I just caught myself wondering tonight "I wonder if I was just a bit thinner, would she still like me". I know it's dumb and not remotely relevant. But I'm annoyed at myself for thinking the thoughts. I can't look at myself in the mirror tonight, because I see the not-good-enough. And my therapist is very slender, and used to have an eating disorder so I know fat registers on her radar.

This is so weird. The same thing runs through my mind a lot and I've always felt stupid for thinking this way and like I am probably the only one who does, which makes it worse! I always wonder if she would like me better if I lost more weight, was more in shape, etc. A lot of it is transference because my mom always treats me the nicest when I look my best (wearing makeup, dressed "cute", styled hair, "appropriate" weight) and I feel invisible when I don't meet those standards. She brags about me when I look a certain way. My Therapist is the same height as me, she is beautiful, her weight is perfect, and her hair and makeup always look nice, she has great style and always wears heels. I guess I feel since she looks like that, she must be superficial and judge people based on appearance. Then I realize she is not my mother and the way she is treating me now has nothing to do with appearance. Logically thinking, she saw me on a 72 hour watch in a behavioral hospital and I was a hot mess! The mirrors there were cr@p so I didn't use makeup, obviously could not style my hair, and wore sweats and yoga pants every day. She saw me that way and still spent 2 hours with me there and hugged me and was very teary when I got out. So the thoughts make no sense, but they still pop into my brain every now and then!

I know it's a strange feeling!

P.S. Sorry I don't intend to turn the focus on me, but I think it is more helpful to explain why I understand rather than just stating that I do.

[CantExplain]

Ts aim to be consistent without being robotic. Which is, of course, impossible.

I know that some patients can get upset when a T discloses too much.