[Figuring It Out]

I have been bothered by this for months and don't know what to do. I was in therapy with someone who ignored why I originally came in and chose an (in my opinion) inappropriate form of therapy that I certainly didn't agree to, lied to me about how my records would be handled when I specifically asked, convinced me to stay in treatment for a LONG time after I told her I wanted to terminate, asked me how I felt about her (in those words) and then refused to see me again after I told her.

For the record, I did not say anything violent or sexual when she asked.

I've given this time, and I am still pissed because I confided a lot in her, and I really did care about her.

What should I do?

Should I file a complaint? What would that entail?

I don't even know if I want to file a complaint but I am still pissed about this entire situation.

[Christina86]

(((((((((Figuring_It_Out)))))))))))))))))

First off, do you see another therapist now that can help you sort through all of the stuff this unethical therapist said/did to you in the course of therapy with her??

Sure, you can file a complaint if you want - unfortunately I haven't got the foggiest idea what that would entail.

I'd be pretty pissed off myself if my therapist did something inappropriate and conducted themselves in an improper manner too!

[Figuring It Out]

She was a student (as am I). When all this happened they moved me to another student (her friend) where I believe she sabotaged me from behind the scenes.

I believe she didn't want her work over ruled by the new therapist so she didn't look bad to her professor. I was very straight forward with my concerns and never heard a word to lead me to believe otherwise.

I eventually refused to see them anymore and at that point they scrapped my file as worthless, in case I should ever decide to come back.

(Don't hold your breath a holes.)

Several months later I tried talking to a third therapist at another location, who confirmed she acted unethically, but it ended before any real progress was made because I just cannot trust therapists now.

[sky dancer]

I can't tell from your post what your therapist did and whether it was unethical or not. I know you feel she lied, and that there was a misunderstanding about confidentiality in your records.

I do hear you that you have unresolved feelings about your therapy and feel harmed and not helped by it.

If I were you, I would see the therapists supervisor and see if you can sort it out.

I can see that the new therapist telling you the old one was unethical did not improve your feeling of trust toward therapy even with the new therapist.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by Figuring It Out

I eventually refused to see them anymore and at that point they scrapped my file as worthless, in case I should ever decide to come back.

I would verify this with the clinic or the supervisor. I would not want my file out there with a bunch of c**p in it for all to see. Who told you that your file had been scrapped? I am not sure of the legality of destroying patient files.

As sky_dancer said, it's hard to tell if what your therapist did was unethical or not, or rather, if it's a complaint that the state board or the T's professional association would consider to have merit. Those are two different things. What is clear is you had a bad experience that resulted in harm, not help. I am not sure how to get over that except trying again with a good therapist. As for filing a complaint, it's hard to know if that would be fruitful. If you want to pursue the latter, you could start with looking at the T's professional association and their guidelines and seeing if anything the T did violated any of these. Something like choosing one type of therapy vs. another for a specific problem might be more of a judgment issue than ethical, for instance, doing EMDR instead of talk therapy for trauma. It's hard to tell without more information. The part about "lied to me about how my records were handled" could be very serious if, for example, the therapist shared your records with people she shouldn't have. Are you in the U.S.? It seems like the medical establishment takes HIPAA violations very serious here.

Good luck.

[Figuring It Out]

Originally Posted by sky dancer

I can't tell from your post what your therapist did and whether it was unethical or not. I know you feel she lied, and that there was a misunderstanding about confidentiality in your records.

I do hear you that you have unresolved feelings about your therapy and feel harmed and not helped by it.

If I were you, I would see the therapists supervisor and see if you can sort it out.

I can see that the new therapist telling you the old one was unethical did not improve your feeling of trust toward therapy even with the new therapist.

There was no misunderstanding about confidentiality. She wanted me to fill out paperwork for therapeutic reasons well after the initial visits. I was concerned about it and inclined not to. She then simply lied to me about how my records would be handled in order to convince me. (I was told they would all be destroyed withing 7 days of discontinuation.)

Originally Posted by sunrise

I would verify this with the clinic or the supervisor. I would not want my file out there with a bunch of c**p in it for all to see. Who told you that your file had been scrapped? I am not sure of the legality of destroying patient files.

As sky_dancer said, it's hard to tell if what your therapist did was unethical or not, or rather, if it's a complaint that the state board or the T's professional association would consider to have merit. Those are two different things.

As for filing a complaint, it's hard to know if that would be fruitful. If you want to pursue the latter, you could start with looking at the T's professional association and their guidelines and seeing if anything the T did violated any of these. Something like choosing one type of therapy vs. another for a specific problem might be more of a judgment issue than ethical, for instance, doing EMDR instead of talk therapy for trauma. It's hard to tell without more information. The part about "lied to me about how my records were handled" could be very serious if, for example, the therapist shared your records with people she shouldn't have. Are you in the U.S.? It seems like the medical establishment takes HIPAA violations very serious here.

I went in asking for help with anxiety and depression because they were having a very negative impact on my life. She asked a lot of background questions at which point she decided that she could ignore what I wanted help with and do something more interesting while I (imo) reasonably assumed that we would be working on my original problem.

I believe this violates the informed consent portion of her ethical code.

When I questioned this in the first session with the second student and mentioned informed consent he looked shocked and said "and you're aware of that," as if it were already a subject of debate. When I questioned her behavior, he also frequently complained that "I didn't know the situation I was putting him in" and when I further debated the issue "You don't need anyone on your side, do you?" in an exasperated tone.

The third and more experienced therapist told me she laid a classic bear trap by asking me my feelings and then punishing me for them. It also seemed that he had some outside information about the subject due to a couple exclamations he used. ("So that was the ......." as if he were hearing the same information from a new perspective.) Due to the fact that the two locations are on the same campus, this is not out of the question.

Additionally, he was angry when I related my experience to him. He ended up yelling, "I've referred people over there" such that the adjoining offices could certainly hear and the session ended hours later than it was supposed to. While it is possible that he was simply trying to build trust, I find this unlikely.

They didn't say they would throw the file out, as the original therapist said. When I terminated therapy, they said should I choose to come back, a new file would be started implying the old one would not be used.

Sorry if portions of this are off topic or rambling. It's still kind of a raw nerve for me all these months later.

[pegasus]

Can you say exactly what was unethical?

I went in asking for help with anxiety and depression because they were having a very negative impact on my life. She asked a lot of background questions at which point she decided that she could ignore what I wanted help with and do something more interesting while I (imo) reasonably assumed that we would be working on my original problem.

What was it that the T wanted to do that was more interesting?

[Figuring It Out]

Originally Posted by pegasus

Can you say exactly what was unethical?


What was it that the T wanted to do that was more interesting?

Failing to obtain informed consent for treatment, which is a tenant in her code of ethics.

If I went to a doctor and asked for treatment for athletes foot, and he then started me on anti cancer medications without informing me, it would be a breach of ethics.

If I was concerned about the handling of my records, so they lied about how they would be used, it would be a breach of ethics.

Additionally, the bear trap thing seems to be straight forward abusive treatment and a massive breach of trust.

[pegasus]

Ok, I'm just trying to figure out what you meant by doing something more interesting. You see, if I was a T and someone came to me for CBT but then it turns out that EMDR would be more appropriate, then I would do that. Obviously the T needs to discuss the change of treatment with you. Did the T explain why a different treatment might be more helpful?

[Figuring It Out]

No, and she simply didn't try treating the anxiety, which is THE reason I came in to begin with. Whenever I brought it up, she side stepped it. When I was insistent, she told me that "maybe it was okay" that I was having frequent anxiety attacks that interfered with my daily life and prevented me from doing well in school.

She perceived another problem that in my opinion was more a product of her issues than mine. She did not inform me that she would be treating me for this other issue, and I only know because I was able to guess what she was thinking from the issues she suggested to me.

Months later it was confirmed by the second therapist that my supposition was correct.

Sorry, like I said, this is still a raw nerve.

[pegasus]

Sending hugs ((((((( Figuring It Out )))))))

It's ok, I understand you are upset.

Could it be that the other issue contributed to the anxiety and therefore the T needed to work on that?

[Figuring It Out]

I may have started as that, but she became convinced that I was doing things like self-harming when there was NO evidence that I was and I NEVER had.

However I could not seem to convince her of this, and from her reactions, I believe that it was HER issue, not mine. This lead to a bad diagnosis, and improper treatment, in the guise of helping me with my anxiety and depression and without my consent.

There were other things too, but that was the biggest red flag for me.

((Pegasus)) Thanks for listening by the way, I really do appreciate it.

Venting helped a bit, I still wish I knew what to do about it. I just feel...... wronged by the whole thing.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by Figuring It Out

Venting helped a bit, I still wish I knew what to do about it. I just feel...... wronged by the whole thing.

Since this person was a student at the time she treated you, she was probably not licensed yet. If so, and she was not a member of any professional associations such as the APA, then you probably can't file a complaint with them. Her supervisor is ultimately responsible for the treatment she delivers, so a written complaint to her supervisor/professor as well as to the head of the clinical psychology program (or whatever program she is in) at her university would be a good start. If she delivered treatment through some sort of clinic on campus, then a complaint to the clinic would also be good. Maybe they would think twice of having these students deliver therapy at their clinic if they knew what was going on and the lack of oversight by the students' supervisors. If her supervisor is officially qualified to give "supervision" through his professional association, then you could file a complaint to them that he was derelict in his supervisory duties. Just a few ideas....

[Figuring It Out]

I just wish I knew what it would take to let this go........

I don't want those people to continue to be able to make me miserable like this.

[sunrise]

Figuring It Out, do you know what it is about this experience that you are having a hard time letting go? What bothers you the most? What you are stuck on? (you have mentioned a number of things). Is it that the first student therapist terminated you at the drop of a hat when you told her how you felt about her? You had what you thought was a caring relationship with her and she unilaterally terminated it? You were powerless?

Or was it that she would not believe you and what you reported your symptoms to be (anxiety/depression)? Was it that she incorrectly insisted you had a problem you did not have (self-harm), and that made you feel ignored and wronged and even patronized?

Was it that she tried to treat you for something you didn't need treating for and so you feel like she was dishonest with you? She tried to slip something by you? The treatment I am most familiar with for self-harm is DBT. These are some good life skills that can actually help for many things. So I'm guessing it wasn't DBT she tried or this wouldn't be so upsetting? It was a more invasive treatment?

It seems like from what you've written it could be a lot of things that are hard for you to let go about this. But maybe there is one core thing that is causing you the most angst. Do you know what it is? Is it the unilateral termination (that would sure bug me)? If there is one thing that matters more, maybe it would help you get past it to be able to identify it from amidst the complexity of what you experienced. And then target it specifically. I do EMDR with my therapist sometimes, and we always pick a target to work on (this is typically the way EMDR goes). It is most productive to have one specific target. Then you take care of that and come back another day with a different target. I'm not trying to suggest you do EMDR (although it can be helpful when one is stuck), but just wondering if you can identify the thing that bugs you most about this whole episode.

And if you know what it is, do you know what would help get past it? Something like EMDR with another therapist? Talk therapy with a competent T? Acknowledgement by the student T that what she did was harmful? An apology? Maybe if you go to her supervisor, he/she could arrange a 3-way meeting with him/herself, the student T, and you so that this student could make amends to you. Would that help? Or maybe a letter from her to you acknowledging the mistakes she made?

I know it is very different, but there have been things I have really been stuck on in therapy about my marriage (I am getting divorced). Sometimes they come up in therapy--things from my marriage and the way my H treated me that seemed unfair, unmerited, uncalled for, just plain selfish and mean and pointless. (Why? Why? Why?) It's hard getting past all of this for me, since I endured it without complaining for 20 years. It's just taking a long time to bring out some of this anger. What seems to be helping is just having a patient soul there across from me with a kind face and empathy--someone who is able to see things from my point of view and totally gets why I feel the way I do. It is helping me.

[Figuring It Out]

I guess what bothers me most is that she spent months convinced I was lying to her (I wasn't). I did side step some issues that I wasn't ready to deal with..... but I was honest. Over and over she nagged me to be more "honest" with her.

She then asked me how I felt about her. I didn't want to lie to her. She didn't let me side step the issue and then she dropped me as soon as I told her.

SHE made it an issue. Then SHE couldn't deal with it, and I get the impression that SHE believes that SHE was wronged.

I understood that she was learning, and I gave her a lot of slack because I cared. However, I thought we were supposed to be dealing with my issues, not hers.

I hate that she did everything she could to make me care..... and then hurt and rejected me, as you said, at the drop of a hat. The entire "therapeutic" relationship seemed to consist of her building me up then tearing me back down and leaving.

I'm sorry about what you are going through with your ex. Hmmmm "unfair, unmerited, uncalled for, just plain selfish and mean and pointless" It's not exactly the same situation, but I see some parallels. I'm glad you found a good therapist for you though.

[pegasus]

I am so sorry you went through all that ((((((((( Figuring It Out )))))))))

I think sunrise's suggestion of making a complaint to the clinic manager would be a good idea, it would be good for you to get an apology from someone at least!

I hope you will consider finding an experienced/qualified therapist to talk about all these things and to work on the issues you feel you need to.

[Figuring It Out]

AAARRRRGGGGHHH

I cannot even get myself to call them. I don't want to reopen this can of worms, but I cannot move on.

[pegasus]

(((((((( Figuring It Out )))))))))

You might find it helpful to write down a list of options.

a) Do nothing and try and accept that the past therapy experience was not helpful. (Not ideal)

b) Write to the manager of the clinic explaining what happened.

c) Ring the manager of the clinic.

d) Go to the clinic with a friend/advocate and ask to speak to the manager.

e) Seek another therapist to talk through your past experiences with other therapists.

If it is not something that you can 'let go' of, I suggest doing e) above anyway.

[Figuring It Out]

Just to put a little perspective on this, she was helpful. However the way she ended it was NOT. Almost a wash really, as far as helpful vs harmful. A lot of the helpful stuff was undone when she terminated the way she did. We did work on my some of my problems, just not the ones I came in for help with and I still don't see myself trusting therapists anytime soon.

My analysis of the situation is shaded by my mood I guess.

Thanks for your suggestion Pegasus, I'll think about it over my long weekend.

This is why they need bigger regulations on student T's. There are some playing house out there, who need more therapy than those who are seeking it from them. There should be mandatory background checks and including medical. I know of one who was/is practicing as a T only weeks after getting out of the mental hospital. There clearly needs to be more restrictions, especially when we are dealing with people's mental health. Just taking classes shouldn't be enough to be a student T. At my college, they don't do severe cases and I have seen where the clients are more put together mentally than the ones who are suppose to be their T's. Scary indeed.

[deliquesce]

^ but how do you think it should be regulated? i agree with background (criminal, working with children checks etc - but i think we sign off on this in australia anyway) but i think medical record checks is an invasion of privacy and would be hard to use informatively anyway.

e.g., someone who has recently been admitted and discharged from an insitution may, or may not, be able to resume their counselling duties effectively. it really depends on the individual and how much they are able to cope. certainly when i was practicing there were times when i probably would have done well to have checked myself in (and god bless him, my pdoc did try). but i dont think my mood/issues interfered with my work; i still performed my job effectively. (hmmm... deli's getting defensive ).

i dont know. i think i did my job well while i was there, and i quit when i no longer was able to commit to the level of professionalism required of me any more (for reasons totally unrelated to mental health).

i guess i get a bit upset when ppl say things like "all Ts are crazy", or that you shouldn't be T if you have issues yourself etc. makes me very much feel like a fraud. and then i get defensive!! so... there's a bit of counter transference for you .

but.. being quite serious - i do agree that some ppl are dangerous Ts, and that there should be some system of regulation. i just don't know how to improve on what's already in place - supervision and (in many cases) compulsory psychotherapy also.

[MissCharlotte]

It sounds like you need some help from someone really experienced. Although it sounds as if the student therapist wasn't treating you optimally I'm not sure it was unethical. It seems as though she didn't make the right call and then the treatment went downhill from there.

For your own sake maybe you can forget it and move on. Ask someone you trust for a referral to a therapist who is much more experienced with your type of issues, and get the help you need. You deserve it.

Best of luck.

[Figuring It Out]

Originally Posted by MissCharlotte

Although it sounds as if the student therapist wasn't treating you optimally I'm not sure it was unethical. It seems as though she didn't make the right call and then the treatment went downhill from there.

That's what I'm afraid of I think. If she could lie to me and treat me as she did AND have it considered ethical/acceptable by her peers/superiors, then I think I'm justified in not trusting therapists.

That's not what I want. I want to believe what she did was the exception, not the rule so I could be comfortable maybe trying again at some point.

Oh well, I'm still thinking about it I guess.

[deliquesce]

Originally Posted by Figuring It Out

That's what I'm afraid of I think. If she could lie to me and treat me as she did AND have it considered ethical/acceptable by her peers/superiors, then I think I'm justified in not trusting therapists.

That's not what I want. I want to believe what she did was the exception, not the rule so I could be comfortable maybe trying again at some point.

Oh well, I'm still thinking about it I guess.

but you're getting things confused here .

it is kind of like... if i went to a T, and they were consistently running an hour late, it wouldn't be "unethical" (i.e., i wouldn't be able to get them deregistered for it) but certainly none of that T's peers/superiors would find it "acceptable", either.

and it would certainly be an exception to the rule.

consider that my gentle nudge in the direction of finding a new, more experienced T .