First session with new Therapist 2.0

I would agree with most of this, in fact as scorpiosis37 mentioned marching in a Pride parade, well there was a chance that I was going to march in a Pride parade near where I live with an Asexual group but we didn't raise enough money to march in it (since it cost money in order to obtain an official spot in it) but despite that I would say my views on things such as equality for all are Very different from many of the people marching in the parade.

Although people have been bringing up the fact that socializing in public takes away time with friends and family and I would that for the most part this would probably be true, but I also brought up the possibility of the Therapist and Client having interest in going to and intimate (alternative lifestyle type) gathering but not having anyone else who wants to go, I can tell you that despite how many close friends and family members you may have when it comes to those types of gatherings you may very well (for both the Therapist and Client) not have anyone else (friends or family) who follows that type of lifestyle and thus would want to go to that type of gathering. If that is the case should the Therapist and Client be forced to go to the gathering alone because of that, I say absolutely not it is and intimate type gathering, go together and enjoy it together, I so no boundary crossing in that circumstance.

Also feralkittymom- you are asking me to determine my boundaries internally rather than externally which is not have I believe that boundaries should be established.

Healthy boundaries are usually established internally first. By trying to bypass the internal motivations, you disconnect from your emotions, your real thinking, and disrespect other peoples' internal boundaries. Sounds like something you may really need to work on.

It could be but at the same time I am entitled to my own beliefs on things.

But that doesn't give you entitlement to impose YOUR beliefs on your therapists. That would be impinging on THEIR boundaries. You have to be willing to respect others' boundaries and, in the least, compromise, but I don't see you at all willing to do so.

Your need to be right, to have it "my way or the highway" seems to be the bigger issue here. Going into therapy basically telling a T you won't have things any way but your way isn't going to foster any willingness on their part to give you an inch because, I suspect, they feel you may be prone to stomp all over their boundaries. Thus, they feel the need to hold very firm boundaries with you to start with. You're creating the scenario where you are basically forcing these T's to hold even firmer boundaries as a defense against your black and white thinking about this whole issue.

Hey RT,

I haven't read everything written, yet I understand where you're coming from. I think (my opinion only) in your scenario you are trying to recreate a satisfactory response to an old wound, one you may not be consciously aware of.

I hope on this post you hear from the preschool teachers and elementary teachers on this forum on how they would handle one of their students — Despite the fact you are an adult — or a parent of a young child being treated this way by their therapist or teacher in public. What would they do? What are their expectations?

Greeting and acknowledging you at a venue should not be an issue for a therapist if that's what a client wants. I don't by the fact that it's to much to remember. Meeting your current therapist is a very different scenario than meeting with a college instructor, lawyer, baker, hairdresser in a public space due to the nature of the relationship. Many therapy relationships are very different, and Sometimes, more is required from a therapist: hugs, emails, phone calls, etc. But, the most important thing is your remembering, not all therapist are willing to do what you wish, because of their comfort zone. What some people here call boundaries. And, if it is a public clinic therapist as opposed to private practice, they may have no choice but, to turn your request down flat.

Is there a possibility of requesting that if your paths cross in public that he or she not ignore you, and at least greet you or you greet him/her, and then leave it at that? And, after that what ever happens happens (e.g. They say hello and move along, chat awhile, you joining them or visa versa). In my opinion only, it would not be do hard for a therapist to remember *greet when we meet* especially, since you feel so strongly about this.

For people who've successfully negotiated through therapy hopefully they would not have a fight or flight response when they see their former therapist in public. And for those that are still in therapy maybe it's something to probably work on, because it just maybe how you deal with many of your past, present, and future relationships. That maybe a small or major sign of progress

These are my Opinions only, folks.

RT, I wish you all the Best. I know you are GTGT!

GTGT, I hope so but if I met her at a social gathering I would probably want to socialize quite a bit.

And, that would be her/his choice. In addition, it would be appropriate for the both of you to explore how the encounter affected you, positively or negatively. But mostly, if it's negatively a more in debt conversation is needed to continue to get to the underlying issue. My opinion only, RT. Your needs or wants are not wrong, and that's what i hope you get from my contributing to your post.

Just to clarify, I was not marching in the Pride parade. I was at a lesbian after-party. My former college student is a lesbian, as am I. I'm out, so I have no problem with her seeing me at a lesbian venue. I simply do not want to spend time with her in that space. It's MY internal boundary. No external circumstances can change the way I FEEL inside about not wanting to spend time with my adult students outside of the classroom. Nor do I WANT to change the way I feel. My boundaries make me feel safe. Luckily, my student was entirely respectful of my boundaries. If she (or another student) tried to overstep my boundaries after I explained what they were, it would make me feel uncomfortable and unsafe. Boundaries are not about "right" or "wrong" or "should" or "shouldn't;" they are about what make use feel safe.

In your explanation about going to an intimate gathering alone, you say that you and your T shouldn't be "forced" to go alone if you have no one else to go with. Do you feel lonely at these gatherings because you don't have anyone to go with? If that's the case, the gathering might be a good way for you to meet some new people. A T can never be a friend. If you want more friends in your life to spend time with, trying to meet new people at places where you have common interests can be great. An intimate gathering might be a great place for you to meet new people and make some new friends.

When you assume, though, that a T would also feel "forced" to go alone, you are projecting your feelings onto her. If a T is at that kind of event alone, she might be there alone because she WANTS to be alone. Therefore, if you try to hang out with her, you may be invading her private space and her alone time. Alternatively, she may be there looking to make new friends with whom she can have reciprocal, real-life relationships. A client can never be that person. If T spends her time with you, she could be losing out on the opportunity to make new friends who could support her and be her friends on a regular basis. Can you see how a T might feel differently than you do about this kind of encounter? Since you cannot change people's internal boundaries, do you understand that you just have to accept them even if you don't like them?

Personally, I've gone to a meditation/self-improvement retreat alone. My reason for going alone was to get some much needed alone time in order to reflect, breathe, and relax. I was feeling very claustropobic in my life, and just needed some space. It felt okay to be around strangers because none of them "knew" me so I could let my guard down. I could talk to them when I wanted to, and sit by myself when I wanted to. If I had run into someone I knew and they wanted to spend time with me, it would have felt intrusive. If they didn't respect my boundary after I said "I want to be alone"--and if they tried to rationalize why I should spend time with them after I said I did not want to-- it would have put a major damper on my retreat.

What I was trying to say is that the Therapist may want someone to go to the gathering with but don't have anyone else they know who wants to go because they may not engage in that particular lifestyle, I am not for a second trying to say that they want to go alone, so if that person who also wants to go ends up being a client than so be it, it is not a boundary crossing for them to go together in itself (the only problem is that you are likely to encounter things that are boundary crossing along the way that you need to make sure you stay away from), a Therapist may understand that given the gathering at hand that they can put aside their role as Therapist for the duration of the gathering. Also these gatherings are not really about making friends per say (in fact at a gathering that I would love to go to in the future we already consider everyone who is there part of our "family") but really about connecting with people just for the duration of the event and maybe never seeing them again or not seeing them until the gathering the following year, and as I have stated many times before a "connection circle" that only exists at the gathering can include your client (or really not your client at the gathering).

I've been frustrated with you fot not understanding what people are trying to explain to you about boundaries. Why don't you GET it? Then I think of my own insistence that what's so bad about driving by my T's house! I know it's not the same but I feel for you. It's not going to be easy for you to accept boundaries. I understand.

I don't know why it so hard but I guess I just like to have the upper hand when it comes to socializing outside of session.

Scorpiosis, I totally get what you mean about choosing to keep parts of your life separate. I often travel alone by choice. Why I do this is because so doing leaves me open to new experiences, usually within the culture I'm traveling in, that I would be far less likely to experience traveling with anyone else. If I were to encounter someone I knew on those occasions, I would not want to engage and would be very annoyed if such an engagement were forced upon me for any reason.

they can put aside their role as Therapist for the duration of the gathering

RT, while this may be your belief, it is not shared by most Ts. While you may determine your boundaries acc to the external circumstance, most Ts will determine their boundaries not as dictated by an association or employer (because there are few hard and fast rules), but by their interpretation of their ethical role as they see it. They will consider their personal comfort level, their clients' best interests, the response from the profession, their morality, and their intellectual perspectives about therapy. All are internal considerations.

That could be the case but like I said earlier until a Therapist is at a gathering like I describe and sees their client there they don't know how they'll react.

My therapist said that she couldn't give me definites about boundaries when I initially harangued her about boundaries. When I continued to bring boundary concerns to her that I Munchausened by Proxy from this forum, her words are for the first time I've been posting not fit to print on PC.

You are a head strong young man, and I hope you get a therapist that is worthy to take you on and make a strong and healthy therapeutic connection. I admire your tenacity.

I accept that you cannot anticipate such reactions for yourself (perhaps because you perceive boundaries as externally determined), but a competent T will have anticipated and thoroughly considered such issues.

I would have to run if I got a Stepford therapist.

Thanks for all of the responses, honestly I really don't know if I can continue to see this Therapist and may need to see one with looser boundaries.

Seems like you don't get it. If I see my students outside of school, they are still my students and I must still abide by my code if conduct and ethics.
Why do you want to control someone else's boundaries? Sounds like you don't have any respect for their feelings or ethics.

Wow, is this therapist young? Do you know how long she has been practicing?

Her views on ethics and boundaries sound super tight and she sounds so tightly wound.

The way I see it is that some therapists would be sort of reactive and guarded when faced with several boundary questions, especially situations he or she has not yet encountered.

My T and I have briefly discussed the topic of boundaries (in general, not just pertaining to me) and she mentioned there are red flags with some clients that alert her to hold tighter boundaries. I don't think this is because she is afraid of them or thinks they are crazy, but more that it appears some clients need those strict boundaries and won't benefit from tons of freedom. She also mentioned that when clients are very closed off and struggle opening up, she tries to be more available to them to gain trust and help create a "safe" feeling.
Then my second T says what she does for one client, she does for all.

I noticed you mentioned a teacher should embrace running into one of their students at a social event or "intimate gathering", and that they should perhaps spend a good portion of time with them upon realizing they are there. I don't think a teacher, or a therapist, doesn't care for the student or client; But it is likely they are both there with different people for different reasons. I don't see how it is necessary for them to spend any time with them at all. However I also think it is extreme for a Therapist to leave if they notice one of their clients in a public setting.

I think that I do try to respect their boundaries but I want to have boundaries of my own and I like to think that how I view boundaries is the correct way to view them

Youre calling it boundaries, but it seems to me like youre asking the t if she will participate in this (romantic?) fantasy you have, where time stands still. Time does kind of stand still in therapy. Its YOUR metaphor - it can either serve to bring people closer to you, or to push them away. But it should serve you, not you be subject to it.

No not romantic at all, none of the senarios I have described invole any kind of romances. The interesting this is that in most places where we could potentially meet (i.e. the supermarket, the mall, ect.) my opinion on boundaries is probably the same as the Therapist (i.e. a brief chat at most) but I guess it is my insistance that there are a very very few number of places where boundaries are completly put aside.

I have no place where my own boundaries are put aside. One can decide what their boundaries are for themselves, another persons boundaries being different does not change where I place mine. Why would a therapist or anyone else have to agree with where you have determined you have none? You may be free to approach it as you wish, but that has no bearing on what another does.

There is no one correct way to view boundaries. Everyone gets to decide their own.

For therapists, dual relationships - aka socializing outside of therapy - is very risky territory. Legally risky. Lose their profession risky. Well-proven to destroy therapeutic relationships risky.

That T doesn't even know you yet. Yes, therapists may maintain flexible boundaries, but they have to trust a given client enough to do so, as we have to trust our therapists. It's a two-way relationship, if one like no other. You're essentially asking a stranger to agree to risk her career for you in some hypothetical situation.

Why would you expect someone to do that?

I just think that boundaries should be flexible.

For instance when I was at the beach yesterday I stopped by one of my favorite stores on the boardwalk when the have literally shelves and shelves of vinyl (records) and I have somewhat of a hobby in collecting vinyl so if I had happened to see my Therapist there than there is no reason whatsoever why we can't have a good discussion in what type of vinyl we like to listen to and even what bands/artists we enjoy listening to on vinyl, since I have literally thousands and thousands of bands/artists that I like there is almost a certainty that there will be some that we both enjoy.