[RTerroni]

Well I once again have a first session with a new Therapist (after I quickly realized that things weren't going to work out with the most recent one), I am wondering what types of things I should bring up, if I should bring up boundaries or not, as most people on here know I have much difficulties with boundaries but at the same time I don't want to get into a yelling match with my Therapist over them.

[CANDC]

What about talking about what went wrong with your last therapist? Or getting them to tell you what a therapist's role is and what you can expect to experience with a therapist.

[HazelGirl]

A yelling match??? If she's a good therapist, you won't get in a yelling match. Definitely bring up boundaries. Also, talk about what your goals are in therapy, ask what her specialties and treatment modalities are.

[RTerroni]

Originally Posted by CANDC

What about talking about what went wrong with your last therapist? Or getting them to tell you what a therapist's role is and what you can expect to experience with a therapist.

It's not that anything went wrong it's just at the initial meeting I realized that she was not a good match for me.

[RTerroni]

Originally Posted by HazelGirl

A yelling match??? If she's a good therapist, you won't get in a yelling match. Definitely bring up boundaries. Also, talk about what your goals are in therapy, ask what her specialties and treatment modalities are.

I hope not but as most people on here know I do have strong opinions on what appropriate boundaries should be.

[HazelGirl]

Originally Posted by RTerroni

I hope not but as most people on here know I do have strong opinions on what appropriate boundaries should be.

But that still should never end in a shouting match.

[RTerroni]

Originally Posted by HazelGirl

But that still should never end in a shouting match.

Well it almost did with a previous Therapist when she brought in her Supervisor.

[HazelGirl]

Originally Posted by RTerroni

Well it almost did with a previous Therapist when she brought in her Supervisor.

It sounds like that T didn't handle things well. A T should never yell at a client over a client's opinion.

[RTerroni]

Well I had the session today and I will say that it was a mixed bag while she was closer to my age she was very rigid on boundaries and as most people on here know I like to be very flexible with boundaries, she even told me that there are many personal questions that she wouldn't answer and she would usually say "I don't want to answer that" which makes me now not want to ask her anything because I would be very offended if she told me that me and would probably get very upset. I also told her that in doing that it encourages clients to go on themselves and look up information about their therapists and at first she told me that clients could get into a lot of trouble for doing that I reminded her that they really couldn't get in trouble any more that someone else who does certain things (i.e. hack into a computer system) to find information about anyone. Basically what I was trying to say is that as long as they are searching for and looking at information that is freely out there and don't try to hack into a secure database or something along those lines (i.e. need to hack to get into there) than they can not get in trouble for doing it and eventually she did agree with me on that.

We than got into boundaries when it comes to seeing someone outside of Therapy and that was where things really clashed since I became insistent on my viewpoint that meetings are flexible and there are some (very rare) instances where there are no boundaries at all (i.e. intimate type gatherings) and this did cause significant disagreements, especially when she said that if a therapist was to see a client there she is supposed to leave which I go very offended by since as most people know I think you should do the exact opposite and embrace the fact that your client is there (even though in a circumstance like that I don't believe that they are their client because the therapist-client relationship is completely put to the side), even doing a number of things together for the duration of the gathering (or even going to the gathering together in the future). I even told her that if her or any other therapist did something like that (i.e. leave the gathering) than they might as well call me their ex-client because I would terminate the relationship right after that. I did tell her that I think that my viewpoints are set and not to try to get me to change them.

However she didn't agree not to bring in someone external (i.e. a supervisor) if we have any disagreements and that we should hash them out ourselves (even if that means deciding that we can no longer see each other.

I know that many of you people on here also disagree with me on this but I like how everyone at least tries to give me some support on it.

Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately depending on how you look at it) she is booked up next week (her only available days were at the end of the week when I will be away) so I won't see her again for 2 weeks. I decided only to book dates for the last 2 weeks in July and not to book for August right now since I have yet to decide if I will be meeting with her long term or not. I think that I would like to have 2 more sessions to see if we can work things out or not.

[HazelGirl]

I wonder if maybe she's not the T who will best fit your needs?

Sometimes it takes a long time to find the one who's right for you.

[RTerroni]

Originally Posted by HazelGirl

I wonder if maybe she's not the T who will best fit your needs?

Sometimes it takes a long time to find the one who's right for you.

It could be but at the same time I don't have many more options.

I have decided to give it 2 more sessions and than after I will decide if I want to continue Therapy with her.

[HazelGirl]

Originally Posted by RTerroni

It could be but at the same time I don't have many more options.

I have decided to give it 2 more sessions and than after I will decide if I want to continue Therapy with her.

Could you use a different counseling center? It's definitely worth a few more appointments to see, but don't settle because it won't be as beneficial for you if you don't find someone who works really well for you.

[someone321]

I think it is a very good idea to check two more sessions with this T if you think that there is a chance that you'll be able to work with her. She was already better than the previous one, right? I guess you are aware that it might be not extremely easy to find a T who will agree with you regarding all boundaries so you either coukd try to find a compromise or to look for other Ts (or maybe you could do both at the same time)... What did she say about hugs etc? Or maybe somehow I missed this information. If I remember well it was also important for you... I guess only you could think what are really crucial points for you and for what you could agree... And how was talking to her overall? As boundaries are very important but also the overall impression counts in my opinion at least... I wish you all the best

[RTerroni]

Originally Posted by HazelGirl

Could you use a different counseling center? It's definitely worth a few more appointments to see, but don't settle because it won't be as beneficial for you if you don't find someone who works really well for you.

Well I have medical assistance so there are only a few places nearby that take it (and I already ended my relationship with one of them).

[RTerroni]

Originally Posted by someone321

I think it is a very good idea to check two more sessions with this T if you think that there is a chance that you'll be able to work with her. She was already better than the previous one, right? I guess you are aware that it might be not extremely easy to find a T who will agree with you regarding all boundaries so you either coukd try to find a compromise or to look for other Ts (or maybe you could do both at the same time)... What did she say about hugs etc? Or maybe somehow I missed this information. If I remember well it was also important for you... I guess only you could think what are really crucial points for you and for what you could agree... And how was talking to her overall? As boundaries are very important but also the overall impression counts in my opinion at least... I wish you all the best

Honestly I don't know if she was better than the Therapist who I saw for only 1 session before deciding to see someone else because even though she was a lot older than me she was at least willing to disclose personal things about herself in fact she told me her age and that she had 3 children without me even asking her.

I didn't get anywhere close to hugs (and honestly I don't think it is something that I will get into at the next 2 sessions) but from judging by her stance on other things I would think a definitely no on hugs regularly and maybe even no hugs at something like a final session.

[someone321]

So it really seems that she's even more strict than the first T :/ do you think that you could see also someone else e.g. next week when you cannot see this T? If I recall correctly Stopdog interviewed around 30 Ts before chose the most acceptable ones... I understand that maybe it is an extreme but I think it woulb be a pity to rrealize after half a year that you cannot work with this T...

[RTerroni]

Originally Posted by someone321

So it really seems that she's even more strict than the first T :/ do you think that you could see also someone else e.g. next week when you cannot see this T? If I recall correctly Stopdog interviewed around 30 Ts before chose the most acceptable ones... I understand that maybe it is an extreme but I think it woulb be a pity to rrealize after half a year that you cannot work with this T...

I don't think I have the time nor the available resources to interview 30 therapists.

I think that when it comes to boundaries I do think that you may not find many Therapists willing to put boundaries completely aside in any circumstance however it is likely that most of them have never before been to an intimate type gathering where something like that may occur I have only been to one before in my entire life (although I have gone there a few times), so until they have been to a type of gathering like that they really don't know what they may do should they see a client there.

[RTerroni]

Thanks for this support my mom just continues to yell at me about it.

[scorpiosis37]

RTerroni, what are the issues you are dealing with that have led you to seek out therapy? What are you hoping to achieve through therapy? What are your goals?

Without knowing the answers to these questions, I think it's difficult to know how important a T's boundaries are going to be in your treatment.

I've followed (and posted) on all of your threads about T-client boundaries and intimate gatherings, but I can't recall you discussing the issues that you are seeking treatment for (I may have forgotten). As you know, the chance of you running into your T at this kind of gathering is so remote that it's about as likely getting hit by lightening or winning the lottery. Therefore, the issue isn't REALLY about how your T would respond in that scenario. Your extreme focus on boundaries must be about something deeper. The reason that you feel compelled to hash this out with each new therapist you meet-- even though you know it's an unlikely scenario and you know it's going to cause disagreement and tension even before you've begun a relationship with your T-- speaks to something deeper. Do you struggle with boundaries in your every day life, and that is what you're act with your Ts? Or do you feel excluded in your every day life, and you're looking to T as a way to feel connected? What do boundaries represent to you, and how far back does it go? Or, is it less about the boundaries and more about an obsession with "being right" or proving your former T wrong? Do you struggle with processing conflict in RL relationships? Do you practice black and white thinking, and have difficulty accepting that others hold different opinions than do? Or, is there a RL issue that you're facing, and are you using your over-emphasis on boundaries as a way to avoid dealing with it?

I think your answers to the following questions will tell a lot about what you need from a therapist. For instance, if your over-emphasis on boundaries is really a symptom of struggling with boundaries in RL or of being unable to tolerate disagreement in relationships or having to always be "right"-- then it might actually be good for you to work with a T who can help explore those issues with you by modeling that it is okay to have different opinions and how to negotiate healthy boundaries while still maintaining a positive relationship. Since, in RL, we have to accept other people's boundaries-- whether we like them or not-- it may actually be a more useful learning experience to negotiate the boundaries of your relationship with T rather than to go on a (most likely unsuccessful) quest to find a T who would be willing to participate in intimate gatherings with you. In relationships, we can't simply get what we want all the time or be "right" all the time-- we always have to take into account the other person's boundaries, feelings, needs, etc. From reading your postings about boundaries and Ts, it seems as though you might be struggling to understand things from the therapist's perspective-- i.e. why it would feel so uncomfortable and unprofessional for her to be in those spaces with you (or any client). If you do struggling with putting yourself in someone else's shoes and understanding perspectives other than your own, this would be something that a more boundaried therapist would be able to help you with. I'm by no means suggesting that you choose a particularly uptight or blank-slate therapist. Rather, I'm suggesting that-- if you feel all the therapists that you meet are too boundaried because they won't disclose very personal details, won't participate in intimate gatherings with clients (should they run into them), etc-- that, perhaps, the issue isn't really about the therapist's boundaries. Perhaps the issue lies in WHY you are so focused on boundaries. The way you write about them, your Ts boundaries seem to be the main issue you are interested in with respect to therapy-- but what about the reason you are seeking therapy? Perhaps it would be helpful to start there Ii.e. your symptoms, your goals, etc) and work out from that point. Choose a therapist who seems like they really know about and have experience treating those issues or helping clients achieve those goals. Of course, you want a T who isn't going to "freak out" about your boundary issues and call in their supervisor unnecessarily-- but most qualified therapists won't do that. (I know your previous T did, but most won't). So, provided a new T feels comfortable discussing boundaries with you and talking about the issues that arise as a result, do they necessarily have to agree with you about your views on T-client boundaries? Would it be okay if you had a therapist who felt differently than you do about boundaries, but was still respectful of your views?

[RTerroni]

I was actually hoping you would post on here scorpiosis37 so thanks for that, I remember from the posts you made on another thread from a few months back that you being someone who has gone to what I consider "intimate gatherings" can actually have an opinion on the matter of if it is appropriate to socialize with a client or not.

I think it is a combination of many of the things you mentioned and yes boundaries do play a part in a Therapeutic relationship. I remember that you said that if you saw a student (I believe that's what you said) at something like "Burning Man" that you would leave and I couldn't disagree with you more, in fact I thought that you should do the exact opposite and try to embrace the student being there and to spend most of the rest of the gathering with him/her, but you think differently and I can sort of understand that. However I am a little strong in my beliefs that if a Therapist was to leave somewhere all together because of me being there that I would no longer want to see them because it makes me think that I am not worth being around or something along those lines.

I think that a Therapist may say that they may leave a gathering because of a client being there but until they have even been to one in the first place let alone see a client there they don't know how they will react. Although I should not that even though (to my knowledge) you have been to what I would consider an "intimate gathering" (such as burning man) you have yet to see a student there.

[CameraObscura]

"We than got into boundaries when it comes to seeing someone outside of Therapy and that was where things really clashed since I became insistent on my viewpoint that meetings are flexible and there are some (very rare) instances where there are no boundaries at all (i.e. intimate type gatherings) and this did cause significant disagreements, especially when she said that if a therapist was to see a client there she is supposed to leave which I go very offended by since as most people know I think you should do the exact opposite and embrace the fact that your client is there (even though in a circumstance like that I don't believe that they are their client because the therapist-client relationship is completely put to the side), even doing a number of things together for the duration of the gathering (or even going to the gathering together in the future)."

I think you might be looking for pretty unreasonable things in terms of therapist's boundaries. You're asking them to be okay with what can quickly become an ethical gray area for them and put their licenses on the line.

[RTerroni]

Originally Posted by CameraObscura

"We than got into boundaries when it comes to seeing someone outside of Therapy and that was where things really clashed since I became insistent on my viewpoint that meetings are flexible and there are some (very rare) instances where there are no boundaries at all (i.e. intimate type gatherings) and this did cause significant disagreements, especially when she said that if a therapist was to see a client there she is supposed to leave which I go very offended by since as most people know I think you should do the exact opposite and embrace the fact that your client is there (even though in a circumstance like that I don't believe that they are their client because the therapist-client relationship is completely put to the side), even doing a number of things together for the duration of the gathering (or even going to the gathering together in the future)."

I think you might be looking for pretty unreasonable things in terms of therapist's boundaries. You're asking them to be okay with what can quickly become an ethical gray area for them and put their licenses on the line.

I'm not entirely sure because normal rules are mostly put aside at most of the gatherings I am thinking of. I remember that the gathering I went to it was a secluded Christian gathering, basically a testimony that lasts several days, I can tell you that when I go to that gathering (even though I haven't gone for the last few years for a variety of reasons) that there are no titles there, we are all followers of God and nothing else, BTW I am not trying to get religious in this I am just trying to give an overview of the vibe of the gathering .

[RTerroni]

I think that everything is just starting to sink in, I have 2 weeks before I see her again so I have some time to think about what I want to say, as of right now though I don't think she is a good match for me.

I know that is tough that I see boundaries a certain way but I just have strong opinions on what I believe is right and wrong and I strongly believe that if a Therapist was ever at a gathering that I am talking about that they would feel the exact same way.

[Leah123]

I'm sorry she doesn't seem like a great match, hope the next sessions go well. Reading this thread, I'm reminded of the multiple previous threads about your take on boundaries, but I am wondering what issues you are trying to treat/heal in therapy?

Seems like ruminating about and debating the therapists' boundaries versus your own may be a time-consuming distraction. Is it that you also have issues with other peoples' boundaries outside therapy? If so, would it help to talk about those with a therapist?

After all, the therapist is there to help you have a better life outside therapy, I wonder if it wouldn't help to just focus more on that aspect of it? Do you really need to devote much time to the off chance of a meeting at a gathering, since their job is just to help you with the other issues and people in your life, not to really join that life?

I don't mean to seem too harsh, I'm just wondering what's at the heart of all of this. Is there a feeling underneath it all you're trying to deal with? A fear or anger over something? Or is it just that you have a feeling of needing some more human connection and imagine that a T might be able to provide it? I can tell how important this is to you and just wonder what caused that so you can resolve it and feel better.

[RTerroni]

I agree that in the main part of my life my Therapist doesn't really need to be part of it unless we cross places somewhere (and then the place we meet at should dictate how much we talk to one another).

I guess after the Therapist who I saw at the last practice I was at keep disagreeing with me on what appropriate boundaries are and tried to get me to see them the same way which culminated in her bringing her supervisor in and telling me that it was over with her that it got me very angry and upset and I have been trying to defend my boundaries ever since.

I want to make progress in Therapy but I am not sure if the person who I saw today is the right person for that after she told me that she has such strong boundaries.