[guilloche]

Feeling kind of lousy. Two things.

First: T has repeatedly brought up that he thinks I'm a "rule follower". I don't know about this. I gave him some examples of me not following the rules, but afterwards, felt awful . My examples made me think that maybe T will think I'm a bad person now, or worse... it doesn't matter what T thinks, because it makes ME feel like a bad person.

I try to be a decent human, and to make good decisions. Not the same as blindly following the rules, in my opinion, but more to make decisions that I won't regret later... but all these things from my past made me feel pretty rotten to have them all here in front of me now. Lots of sadness after that session.

Second. T bugged me a couple weeks ago about SAT scores. (Note: I'm 40. the SATs were a LONG time ago). I told him honestly that I didn't remember. He didn't believe it. I think he was reading something I had written awhile ago, and apparently though it sounded much more articulate than I present when I'm freaking out in session because he seemed kind of shocked.

So, I was curious, found my scores and remember why I forgot them in the first place (disappointing!). T asked AGAIN (last week)... I broke down and told him... and now I feel really embarrassed and, well, stupid. Like, clearly, I'm not as smart as he thought, or as I thought. I used to feel pretty smart (I did well in school), but my scores seem... they're fine, but not really anything particularly exciting or something I'm proud of.

I'm sure it ties to all sorts of other stuff, because I ended up writing and crying and wanting to quit therapy (and everything else), etc today Just feeling very rotten and like... you know, I suck at everything, and the one thing I *thought* I had going for me (being at least a little smart) is getting pulled out from under me too.

This can't be how therapy is supposed to work? And... is it weird that I have these reactions *days* after my session? The rest of the session was pretty good, and I left feeling ok. This other stuff just seems to bubble up afterwards, and I'm not really sure how to talk about it later with T...

[ScarletPimpernel]

I try to be in the moment with my T and try to remember everything that was said. Then I go home and process. Normally, I wind up remembering like 1 bad/unpleasant thing that happened and I dwell on it But my T knows I do this, so it doesn't surprise her when I come to the next session overreacting to one thing (which is usually a misunderstanding).

As for SAT scores...I never took the SAT. But test scores do NOT show an accurate level of intelligence. So don't judge yourself too harshly on that. We each have intellectual strengths in different areas. My fiance is an idiot () in most things except when it comes to IT. My intelligence lies soley in logic, but I don't excel in any specific area otherwise.

And about following or not "rules". I'm not quiet so sure why that bothers you. I tend to follow "rules" a lot, but I also don't (there are too many things to be considered "rules"). I don't think it's a bad thing unless you're harming yourself or others. My T follows her professional "rules" to a t. But she's also admitted that she has road rage and would jay-walk. None of us are perfect.

I hope you feel better

[guilloche]

Thanks ScarletPimpernel...

It does help to hear I'm not the only one who goes home and then reacts to things. I'm a little worried though... since most of the session was very validating, that if I keep bringing in these weird little things that upset me, he'll eventually think, "well why bother saying all the validating stuff if ALL you're going to focus on is the one bad thing!" I know in therapy that I shouldn't be worried about driving off my T, but you know, it happens... I seem to be good at driving people with stuff like this.

Thanks... it's just so weird (with the SAT scores). I don't know, I just think maybe I'm fooling myself. I thought I had gotten over all this stuff, and had kind of come to a place where I thought "IQ" really didn't matter, since there are so many ways of being smart that aren't measured by tests, but... it's still bugging on me. And I feel set up, I wish I had just not looked up the stupid score, and not talked any more about it

re: The rules... I don't think it's the not following the rules that bothers me, I think it was just seeing all these examples of me behaving kind of badly, all together, from my past. I don't know.

Thanks... I'm going to try to get some sleep now... night.

[Petra5ed]

That's weird he would be interested in your SAT when you're 40... I wonder why? I don't think the SAT is a good intelligence test though, more like what did you learn in high school. About being a rule follower maybe that's not bad? I would ask why he brings it up, what is he getting at? Most people follow rules, if they are decent people.

I've been hurting because of something my therapist said recently too. He went out of his way to say our relationship is a "business relationship." While I get it, it also makes me want to kill myself. Silly me thought someone really cared about me.

[JaneTennison1]

I think this is partly what has really bothered me about my recent therapy session. My therapist pushed on some points I wasn't ready for and although she wasn't wrong per se, it has made me ashamed and hateful toward myself. I think the end result is I'm supposed to want to "fix" this issue but actually I just want to cut off from people and wallow in how much I hate me. Not a very useful feeling.

[growlycat]

I have been told that depression can even bring down your IQ score. I am curious why he puts so much importance on the SAT? Even now, the SAT is being scrutinized because it isn't the best tool.

I'm sorry Guilloche but your T sounds like they are on a huge ego trip. I have not often heard of a T putting down their own client but somehow you found one. I was under the belief they were supposed to make you feel better. Sorry but why put yourself through being humiliated for no reason at all? SAT scores? gotta be kidding me.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Originally Posted by guilloche

Thanks ScarletPimpernel...

It does help to hear I'm not the only one who goes home and then reacts to things. I'm a little worried though... since most of the session was very validating, that if I keep bringing in these weird little things that upset me, he'll eventually think, "well why bother saying all the validating stuff if ALL you're going to focus on is the one bad thing!" I know in therapy that I shouldn't be worried about driving off my T, but you know, it happens... I seem to be good at driving people with stuff like this.

Thanks... it's just so weird (with the SAT scores). I don't know, I just think maybe I'm fooling myself. I thought I had gotten over all this stuff, and had kind of come to a place where I thought "IQ" really didn't matter, since there are so many ways of being smart that aren't measured by tests, but... it's still bugging on me. And I feel set up, I wish I had just not looked up the stupid score, and not talked any more about it

re: The rules... I don't think it's the not following the rules that bothers me, I think it was just seeing all these examples of me behaving kind of badly, all together, from my past. I don't know.

Thanks... I'm going to try to get some sleep now... night.

I understand feeling like you drive people away. Due to all the people who have abandoned me, I feel like if I don't "walk on eggshells" I might lose someone (go figure...I'm the one with BPD ). Even with my T, I fear saying one wrong thing will make her leave.

Exapmle: This week has been difficult for me and I've had a lot of support from my T outside of session. Last time, she was mad at me...out of concern, but still mad. So I begged her to not be mad at me. She replied "we'll talk about it on Tuesday", a typical response. But I freaked out and had a complete breakdown. My fiance called her and left her a msg saying I just needed reassurance. She emails me back saying she can't call and "we'll talk about it Tuesday". O.M.G. Thankfully, 2 mins later say replies "no need to worry, btw". Jeez. I made such a little issue turn into an entire crisis. Of course, now I feel stupid.

But my point is, I do understand how sometimes the one little thing wrong seems to override all the positive. Maybe just being it up to your T and just say you need some reassurance about those things? I don't know if it's the same for you, but I think I do this because I'm so used to being rejected, so I look for it even if it doesn't exist. And if I find something that might appear to be rejection, I dwell on it. The best thing to do is try to get reassurance.

You know, h.s. is a hard time for most people. Hormones, peer pressure, becoming an adult but not being one, figuring out what to do with your life. You don't even need to suffer from mental health and it can be one of the most stressful times in our lives (why many diagnoses aren't given while a teen). And with all the stress, we're expected to be at an optimal mental state to take a test that supposedly determines how good we will be in college? Haha...B.S. Some people even have test anxiety. For me in h.s., my friends thought I was dumb. Many teachers thought I was dumb. I wasn't. I just had no mental capacity to excel in education at the time. I do understand how your T bringing it up could be upsetting and even triggering. It was something so important back then but has no reflection on who you were and who you are. But yet your T made it important again. Maybe ask him why SAT scores are important to him?

About behaving badly: I have made a lot of dumb, bad, whatever you want to call it, choices in my life. When my past choices bother me (or past experiences), I reflect on the situation. Did I intentionally make the "wrong" choice? Was something else going on that didn't allow me to think clearly or rationally? How has that decision affected my life? What have I gained from that decision (even if it was a lesson learned)? How has it made me a better person?

It wasn't a choice, but I wound up homeless at 18. It was a horrible experience. But I look back at all that I gained from it: appreciation for people who struggle, appreciation for friends, appreciation for a roof!, and money, etc. I learned how to accept people, love people. I got to learn from people who have struggled. So I question myself: was being homeless worth all that I gained? For me, yes. I don't want to go through it again, but I'm glad for the positive experiences that came from it. I do this with all things in my life. Would I have x relationship even if I knew the outcome from the beginning . The answer is always yes. So I might not like the things I've been through or done, but I don't regret them either. I just also don't want to do it again

Sorry for the novel. I just feel like I can really relate. But I do hope that you can bring some of this up to your T, and I hope he provides you with the clarity and reassurance you need.

If it helps even a little, know that I wouldn't judge you for anything you've done including your SAT scores.

[A Red Panda]

I think I have a different perspective on what the T might be doing:

It sounds like the T is trying to help you be real, and to accept yourself as you are. It sounds like you put up a front in an attempt to hide whatever you perceive your faults to be. He might be picking up the areas that he's aware of where you take part in some self-deception? Like... although we can pick and latch on to our good qualities, it's imporant to recognize that those good qualities aren't perfect either? And that we need to accept the bumps in the road and how they helped make us whatever we are?

Ugh, I really don't think my point is coming out very well in words.

Either way, it can take me a few days before I really start to process anything that I talk about with my T. I think that's normal!

[missbella]

My therapists only made me feel worse.

I don't believe a therapist-client relationship exempts a therapist from basic human courtesy. I'd be angry if a friend or associate talked to me like you describe.

I dislike anyone who labels me. What good does that do? We're either rule followers or we're oppositional, so something is wrong with us either way. They should not put us in the position of having to defend ourselves.

How is it therapeutic to fixate on results of a test from 40 years ago. That sounds carping.
The client is the boss.

[guilloche]

Thanks everybody, it really helps to hear all the perspectives on it. And to clarify, I don't think he actually said anything about my scores - it's not like he said, "Oh, wow, I thought you were smarter than that!" I just don't remember him responding at all, more like that awkward silence where you just decide to move on from a topic.

I will try to bring it up this week. I need to think about the best way to approach it. It's hard, because I don't want him to say, "of course I think you're smart!" as a reply... because it feels like a) I'm asking for that, and b) it's just a reassuring response (not an accurate statement), c) I don't think it's really about what he thinks here (whether he thinks I'm smart or not isn't going to change whatever the reality of the situation is).

So I don't know what I want, other than to go back in time and do a better job of saying, "Nope - SAT scores are more than 20 years old and not relevant, so let's drop it!".

Petra5ed - Oh geez, I'm sorry.... that was an awful thing for your T to say. ((Petra5ed)) - I'd feel rotten about that too. I can't remember what my T said, but there was something that gave me a similar reaction.... I came home and thought, "You know, it's your JOB, but it's my LIFE." *Sorry.*

JaneTennison1 - Sorry you got pushed too Yeah, I don't find feeling bad about myself to be motivating. It seems like it might be for some people, but I'm the same way, it makes me want to curl up in bed and just never leave the house!

Thanks GrowlyCat - I hadn't heard that about depression, but it makes sense. And I had a lot of crap going on with my family (that we were just discussing in that session). That actually makes me feel a little better. (I also secretly think I would have done much better if it were UNTIMED. I'm just not a super-speedy person, and I tend to want to be precise and get things right, so... timed tests are not the best for me. I spend too long working things out and double checking!)

Thanks for sticking up for me Simmering! In all fairness, I don't think he said anything to put me down... I think that's all coming from me !

ScarletPimpernel - Thanks for the long reply! (And, I relate to alot of the stuff you post too!) I would have totally freaked out with a reply like "we'll talk about it Tuesday" too... because to me, the message I hear is that the other person is so upset, that they can't even deal with it right now... ! I'm glad your T emailed you back to let you know there was nothing to worry about though - phew!!!

Thanks, and you're right... I've got alot of abandonment stuff going on in my past too, including a past T who said he wouldn't quit on me, that I'd have to fire him (!!!). That obviously didn't work out. Anyway, you're right... that one little negative thing is so easy to latch on to - it's frustrating, b/c as I said, I was actually feeling pretty good afterwards, as T had been really helpful with alot of my childhood stuff.

"Maybe ask him why SAT scores are important to him?" -- Thanks! Yes, I think that's a good way to start the conversation. And, you're right - high school was a rough time, especially with a chaotic, crazy family. Thank you!

A Red Panda - Thanks. I was sort of wondering if something like this might be going on. I'm not sure though... I asked about something similar awhile ago, and he basically told me that was wasn't and wouldn't screw around with me like that, that he was usually pretty honest and upfront with his thoughts. So, who knows... that all makes sense, but if that's what he was doing, it feels a little cruel! Thanks for letting me know that it takes you a few days to process stuff too! I'm glad it's not just me! (BTW your avatar picture is so unbelievably cute!)

Thanks MissBella - Honestly, I don't think he actually said anything, I think this is mostly coming from my brain . I don't think he'd be that mean!

Thanks!