[WinterRose]

My psychiatrist thinks I need more Routine in my life in categories like social, health, work, etc. I've been having a hard time with the word routine - to me it means things done by rote without much purpose or something mundane that has to be done. But last night, it suddenly came to me that maybe he means Structure - that I need structure. (English is not his first language so this is entirely possible.) That sounds better to me. Structure is much more positive and makes sense – like in poetry or building a house – structure gives form and allows something to take shape. It gives you something to work with.

So - my question: What kind of structure do you have in your life? I'm not sure exactly how to build that into my life, but I think it would be good for me. I'm good with ideas, but I'm not sure how to apply it in the 'real' world and get down to specifics.

[Soidhonia]

Hello Winter Rose.
One way to build structure into your life is to sit down and take what you do in a day and put it in a schedule that you can accomodate. For Instance:
8 AM Breakfast
9Am Laundry
10 AM Take a shower.
I have a schedule I will show you what mine looks like
7:30 AM Wake up get dressed for Scope
8:30 Am SCOPE SENIOR CENTER
8:45 Break 15 minutes
9 AM Training
9:30 Packing meals
10:00 Break
10:30-11:20 Training
11:25 Serve Seniors
(Hopefully you get the point)
I know this sounds really a little juvenile but I have PTSD and even as juvenile as it sems as long as I know what I am doing day to day I generally can have a structured and calmer day knowing what I am doing at what time. I hope the best for your scheduling as well. Take Care Soidhonia

Yeah, structure. Some kind of framework. Kind of like how sweetpea plants need a frame for some structure but there are plenty of opportunities for them to pick the precise shape they will take on the frame (I'm not sure that they will flower if they don't have a frame). Not sure if that analogy works...

I do a lot better with structure. Regular sleep/wake cycle (starts with regular waking times). Something to get up FOR (getting to work at a regular time). Something to do during the day (try and set myself tasks to acomplish). Some free time too! And time to do things I enjoy (reading etc). I guess I'm not all that structured but I surely know that if I get up at a reasonable hour and try and acomplish a few manageable tasks at work I feel a whole heap better. If I add some exercise to that as well and eating regularly and healthily then I'm pretty on form.

Doing it seems to be the major mission, however...

[DePressMe]

I have "loose" structure in my life. Weekdays I sleep 9-6 and work 7-5or 6.
Monday and Tuesdays are my free evenings--I choose to do whatever--meet a friend for dinner or mow or such.
Wed and Friday I go out with my boyfriend.
Thursday is therapy after work.
Sat AM I drink coffee and goof off. I work 12-6 or 8 depending on work.
Sunday AM I drink coffee and do laundry. Then I go to my art studio for the day. Sometime Sunday evening I call my mom.

Of course all this is changing because this quarter I am taking a graduate course, so Tuesdays are now school, the art studio is now study time--every free moment I have is pretty much study time. It is difficult to have the disruption in my "structured" life- I have been on this schedule for many years. But, it is only for one quarter. Things will get back to normal soon.

I agree with your pdoc--structure does seem to help me get things accomplished and calms my anxiety. At times, when I was depressed, I had to set a schedule for every hour of every day or I would sit around and do nothing. Now, I give myself more freedom to decide when to do things--as long as I get things done.

yeah. my behaviours are very mood dependent. i don't really have external structure imposed by work so i need to internally generate it... and basically... that doesn't work out so well for me. so really what i need to do is to rearrange my environment so that i can kind of impose a structure from without (e.g., agree to meet someone for morning tea which will mean that i do indeed have a reason to get up).

[WinterRose]

Alexandra - that's great if you can actually adhere to a structure when you're depressed. Structure is the first thing to go for me. I drop everything and haven't any will power left to force myself. I just go to bed. No shower, no brushing teeth, no dinner, just tears and bed.

Currently, I have too much time and no idea what to do with it. I just got accepted to grad school so that will start creating familiar structure for me in September, but until then I end up pacing the house or petering out and getting depressed. I don't seem to be able to plan enough to keep going and once I wind down, I can't start up again. (I relate it to the theory of inertia - an object in motion tends to stay in motion, an object at rest tends to stay at rest.) I guess I'm searching for purpose. Routine bores me. But I do need something.

How do you build routine without it boring you silly and becoming something you force yourself to do? I lived for years on shear will-power and now I just can't bring myself to do that. It feels so horrid to force myself into anything.

And how do you know when you're just being avoidant - which is what I think I do or try to do when I fill everything up. Sometimes it feels like I'm stuffing myself with junk to keep something, some thought or realization or truth, at bay. I can't be still - I'm even addicted to thinking and can't seem to stop.

I really liked what you said Alexandra, "Kind of like how sweetpea plants need a frame for some structure but there are plenty of opportunities for them to pick the precise shape they will take on the frame." I'm going to meditate on it because I think you've hit something there for me. Perhaps I'm afraid that structure will take away choice or creativity, hmm.

[sunrise]

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WinterRose said:
So - my question: What kind of structure do you have in your life?

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I have a lot of routine built into my life because of my job and kids. I have to go to work at a certain time, get kids ready for school at a certain time, make their lunches, cook their dinner, etc. I am not sure I value that routine very much, but those are things I must do each day.

WinterRose, what I thought of first when I saw your post was the different aspects to one's existence and how one develops and coordinates them all. That is a kind of structure. I know my T has spoken to me before about these different components: intellectual, emotional, spiritual, physical, social, creative (not sure if I'm remembering them all). I feel like those are too much to work on all at once, so I am tending to focus on the intellectual, emotional, and physical right now. The creative and spiritual I am leaving for later when I have made more progress on the others; they will almost be a reward for my progress. Not sure this is what you had in mind or not...

> Perhaps I'm afraid that structure will take away choice or creativity

Yeah, I hear you.

I guess the idea is that when you start grad school there will be structure. You will have (I'm supposing) classes and seminars and stuff like that that you have to get to. If you have a class at 9am monday (for example) then you have a reason to get up before then so that you can make it to class on time. School / work does indeed impose structure. I guess the idea is that while sometimes those committments really suck (one doesn't feel like going to class) when one actually gets there oftentimes it can result in one feeling better (because the class is stimulating and because the social contact is nice and because one gets a feeling of acomplishment that one made it to class).

I wake up around 8am. Usually I don't feel like getting up. Still feel a bit drowsy. So I'll doze for a couple hours before I drag myself out of bed. Then I feel fairly crappy and lethargic for the rest of the day. If I get up at 8am (because I've arranged to meet someone for morning tea) then while it is hard for 10 minutes or so (before coffee / shower) it actually results in my feeling more awake and having a more productive day. So I actually feel better through the day and feel a lot better for having acomplished something productive.

The trouble with mood dependent action (especially mood dependent action around depression such as eating and sleeping and watching tv and the like) is that the actions we do are actions that are likely to keep us in that mood rather than help us find our way out of it. For example, when you exercise your body releases endorphins which are your bodies natural opiates. When endorphins are released one feels good. Happy and awake and invigerated. If you are feeling depressed often the last thing you feel like doing is exercising. So tempting to just go back to bed and feel depressed for the rest of the day. If one can MAKE oneself do some exercise, however, then one is likely to feel awake and happier in half an hour. That is the rationale behind 'activity scheduling' in cognitive behaviour therapy. I think that is partly why making oneself stick to a structure of activities helps too.

I think the idea is to choose your own structure. The point is to have a structure of things that one would like to do. Things that helps one feel like one is living a worthwhile life. Oftentimes it is one thing to 'rationally know' what one would like to do with the day and what one feels like doing with the day. This is something that I still struggle with. In a way it is paradoxical... Coming up with some structured activities (especially around waking up and doing some things during the day that one considers to be worthwhile) actually tend to result in one feeling happier and freer and more productive. It isn't about filling in what one does with every hour (or it doesn't have to be). The idea is kind of that... By choosing to engage in activities that one objectively finds meaningful (despite how one feels) one will (eventually) start to feel like one is living a more meaningful life. To start with it is about acting despite how one is feeling. It can take some time but after a while it becomes about the things one knows one needs to do in order to feel like ones life is meaningful.

[lauren_helene]

For me, working, being married and having a son creates a certain structure. I have to work during certain hours and take care of my son along with my husband.

So when no one is around and I have the day off so to speak, structure is very hard for me. What I have started doing is making lists of what I want to accomplish on a particular day when time permits.

I also make part of my structure to journal and I do it on my portable jump drive now so it's encrypted and I can do it anywhere as long as I have a computer near me. That has helped quite a bit.

[Becca07]

WinterRose, I'm wondering a similar thing. My t and I were kind of discussing this yesterday. Between now and July, when I have my next surgery, I'm just kicking around at home, no job or school. And the question is how to not trap myself, while staying within my limits of little to no walking, no local friends, and no transportation outside of weekends.

I haven't figured out the answer yet. But I don't think it's a coincidence that I had a thing to go to today and am feeling pretty cheery today.

I never really thought about what I do as structure. I guess because it's built in... Even though I've created it, I've always assued it was natural, like a drive, things I have to do.

I work full time, so that fills up my days.
I go to grad school part-time so that fills up 2 evenings per week.
I see my T, so that fills up 1 evening per week.
I go to a poetry workshop, so that fills up 1 evening per week.
Besides all that, I have 3 parrots, a house, &amp; a husband.
And a lot of schoolwork to do on the weekends.

Sometimes when I don't feel good, I want to abandon my whole "structure." I've worked very hard to get to the point I'm at now, and sometimes I wish it didn't exist.

Other times I feel as if it saves me.

What am sure about is, no matter how I feel, I couldn't imagine my life without it. It's me.

[biiv]

ok heres a classic example of how weird i am but thought id put it out here in case it helps. when im in classes structure pretty much takes care of itself but when i have days on end 'free' to study i have huge problems imposing structure myself. soooo... i look for something external to help with that and for me thats the tele schedule. lol. i wake up and turn on dr phil because i know thats something pleasant to do first thing that will actually get me awake and usually i have breakfast watching him. then i pick an activity to do for the next hour or so until this childrens programme i like comes on. its called hi5 and has lots of dancing and stuff on it so i let myself have some fun with that which doubles as a bit of exercise and usually really lifts my mood.
i then spend another hour or so on an allocated activity (anything from showering and dressing to going for a walk, to the park, going online, reading, studying, shopping, cleaning, whatever needs to be done) and watch oprah around lunchtime, usually while i eat lunch. (well eating lunch is the plan but eating is a whole other issue). i then have a few hours in the afternoon and find its easier to set my own schedule then for some reason. in the evenings on mondays, sundays and fridays at least theres another programme i watch for an hour later in the evenings which is my cue to go to bed after.
i know its not a great structure and i know its probably really bad to use the tele as a tool but its better than nothing and there are so many days where if i didnt have it i would probably end up getting absolutely nothing done or just sleeping the day away.
hope you can find a way to get some structure in your own life.
good luck and take care!

[Perna]

WinterRose, I wouldn't make "routine" a bad word in your vocabulary :-) you can routinely work in your journal or write a poem every morning when you wake up

I use to do that; write in my journal. It got so what was happening in my journal was very exciting and would pull me up in the morning to "see what would happen." Now I'm taking some classes I like and come online to see if anyone has posted in my classrooms, work on my term papers, etc. Coming here is a routine too.

I don't feel I have as much "structure" as I use to when I was working. Being retired, I still have some trouble with that; if I have a bad night and can't sleep easily, I still worry I won't get enough sleep before I "have to" get up the next morning (for work :-) and it takes a moment before I remind myself I can sleep as long as I like or take a nap later, etc.

But I have a little structure in that both my husband and I get up within about half an hour of each other and both go to our computers and, sometime before Noon and after we've had out coffee, my husband comes down and makes us a nice breakfast which is not helping me lose weight :-) Maybe structure to me has something to do with what the rest of the world/other people are doing in relation to me whereas routine is me alone.

I use to do a lot of reading and built myself some structure with that, that and recording/working with my dreams. I also work a lot on my genealogy. But the Internet has been most helpful to me; I can always find something to interest me and get me involved for a bit if I'm having a rough time. I have a very good imagination and streak of creativity so I usually can pull myself out of morasses after a bit.

[WinterRose]

Good ideas. Thanks. I'm thinking my extra time is coming from having no husband, children, or pets. It's just me with very little social life so I have to keep making it up. Work does help - that means that for 7.5 hours M-Th and 4 hours on F I have something to do (although sometimes I run out there too). I have started writing every night, though I didn't do it consciously - I've been doing it to get things out since I keep going downhill at the end of the day and the journal helps some. I also read, but there is no set timeframe for anything. I'm starting to notice that the radio helps because it adds voices to the house. The funny thing is that I have tons I "could" do, but it's the wanting to do it that is hard.

biiv - Off topic, but I have trouble with the eating thing to for various reasons - is one of yours the aversion to messing up the kitchen because then you'll have to clean it? I don't have a TV. It's been years since I did. I don't think it's bad as long as you're careful about what you choose to watch and let into your home and mind. I just get mesmerized by it and have a hard time pulling away and there is so much junk that it became hard for me to avoid - so no TV - just the VCR & DVD player with monitor.

Oh and Sunrise - yes, what you're talking about is part of what I meant.

[biiv]

keeping with the off topic thing (so skip this if you like!) but wow! as soon as you said that about not wanting to mess up the kitchen it rang a big bell! had never thought of it before. its not the only thing but that probably does play a big part in my messed up eating. i hate cooking and that probably is in part because i have to do the dishes after and i really hate doing them. i have to do them perfectly or i feel like throwing up. and i have to fight the nausea if theres gross food stuff on them. thanks for that insight winterrose.
about the tele, yeah as soon as i posted it i remembered its fine for me since i only have four channels so most of the time theres nothing i want to watch on. i understand if you have more channels why you would not have a tele. for the same reason i dont have a vcr or dvd recorder. if i did id be recording things all night and watching them all day. lol.
ok back on topic... sorry!

[froggie2]

I lost my structure! I was alway so organised. Would get my work done and then I could "play" in my garden, riding my bike.
Since I have been sick i can't stay on much. Exactly what was said. No shower, no brushing teeth, houseowrk whats that? etc. i worry whether I am now lazy. But when I am doing good i noticed I am up showered, dishes done, bed made, and i seem to be on my old routine. Long walks. I know that I feel much better with a routine. One I loved in the summer was to grab a cup of coffee and walk around the yard early in the morning. Listen to the birds, smell the freshness of a new day.It was so relaxing before work.