[growlycat]

I am having a confidence crisis of sorts. I worry because this attitude in myself seems to really piss off other people (today, that took the form of one angry driving instructor who seemed irritated by driving phobia tears.)

My CBT T last week was heading there too --after saying out loud the worries that go round in my head, he said "keep thinking like that and of course you will be demotivated".

Comments like that really hurt. I'm not trying to think negatively, it extremely automatic. I've read up on DBT, ACT, "letting thoughts drift by", all these things are occasionally useful but not when I get into a funk that I'm a complete failure.

How to dig out from deeply negative thoughts? How do I not bring out the worst in others?

[Ididitmyway]

Paradoxically, the negative thoughts won't have a grip on you if you stop trying to dig them out but accept and embrace them instead. The more you beat yourself up for having those thoughts, the more they will persist. Do you know the expression "what you resist persists"?

Frankly, I think, you'd be more helped by the therapist who would help you understand the origins of your negative thoughts and would be more accepting of you and where you are at the moment instead of instructing you to do the impossible and implicitly shaming you for not being able to do that. It seems like your current therapist is making you feel crappy about yourself, and there is nothing therapeutic about that, even if it's done unintentionally.

[stopdog]

I don't know. I can't imagine I would care if the therapist was irritated. I would consider that their problem to deal with, not mine.

[growlycat]

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

Paradoxically, the negative thoughts won't have a grip on you if you stop trying to dig them out but accept and embrace them instead. The more you beat yourself up for having those thoughts, the more they will persist. Do you know the expression "what you resist persists"?

Frankly, I think, you'd be more helped by the therapist who would help you understand the origins of your negative thoughts and would be more accepting of you and where you are at the moment instead of instructing you to do the impossible and implicitly shaming you for not being able to do that. It seems like your current therapist is making you feel crappy about yourself, and there is nothing therapeutic about that, even if it's done unintentionally.

I think it because of his CBT approach--T is almost too goal oriented sometimes and forgets the person behind the problem. In general he has been helpful and thoughtful but he does have his rude and clumsy moments.

I still have my psychodynamic T also who is much better at "root problems" than cbt T is. But CBT T has been better about concrete steps to achieving certain goals. Such is my dilemma!

Wish I could splice them into one T!!! I'm hoping to have the guts to tell CBT T that what he said was not helpful and makes me feel like he isn't on my side.

[growlycat]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I don't know. I can't imagine I would care if the therapist was irritated. I would consider that their problem to deal with, not mine.

I am envious of your ability to do quite well in the world with or without your T's approval. If you decide to bottle it and sell it let me know!

I really don't like being so needy.

To be honest, I think that's the kind of thing a friend might say, but not a trained professional. Other people in our lives might get irritated and inadvertently try to make our self-doubts be about them (and that's bad enough!) but surely a therapist should be able to look at what you need without worrying about how it makes them feel, and work with you to find the answers to the questions you ask.

How to dig out from deeply negative thoughts? How do I not bring out the worst in others?

At the risk of sounding glib: If you knew, maybe you would not need therapy? (I am not saying that is the case - it is not as if we go to therapy for one isolated thing, at least I don't and I suspect you don't either). But that's the kind of question a good therapist should inspire enough confidence to work with - it's not something we should have to work out before going to therapy. It's like the Moomin comic where the family hires a new maid, and cleans the house in anticipation of her arrival.

I do understand not wanting to annoy T, by the way - I reason like that myself. But it's not really the best way to go about it, I think.

[stopdog]

I do, unfortunately, care in some areas with one or two people.
Just not with therapists.

[Ididitmyway]

Originally Posted by growlycat

I still have my psychodynamic T also who is much better at "root problems" than cbt T is. But CBT T has been better about concrete steps to achieving certain goals. Such is my dilemma!

Yes, I know. When they (the Ts) get set on one narrow philosophy, they can't see the bigger picture and realize that life requires more than one way of tackling problems, that only actions or only introspection alone won't cut it.

[growlycat]

Lol, Mast, sometimes he will say "I really shouldn't say this but….."

I wince inside and think, "ugh, then please don't say it!!"

I get what you are saying, being a pro he should be able to guide me out of this! I'll find out on Tues!

I've watched shows like biggest loser and Ruby... And I've seen these personal trainers help these obese people work out... I am obese too... But I sort of think of a CBT T like a trainer...they work you just a little bit harder than you think you can do...

But unlike a show or something like that you hired this T to help you get past things... It's not going to be easy or pretty it going to be hard and messy..

But you are courageous ....you are doing it one step at a time...

[growlycat]

Originally Posted by Readytostop

I've watched shows like biggest loser and Ruby... And I've seen these personal trainers help these obese people work out... I am obese too... But I sort of think of a CBT T like a trainer...they work you just a little bit harder than you think you can do...

But unlike a show or something like that you hired this T to help you get past things... It's not going to be easy or pretty it going to be hard and messy..

But you are courageous ....you are doing it one step at a time...

Thank you so much for the encouragement!!!!

Weight loss/fitness and my driving phobia are the 2 big issues I bring to CBT, while I continue to use psychodynamic T for interpersonal and family drama stuff.

Your trainer analogy is right on-- sometimes he feels more like a personal trainer than a T, which can be a good thing. I prefer psychodynamic as a technique but for me the risk is "All talk and no action"

I'll keep trying! Thanks for the support--much needed right now.

[Ididitmyway]

Speaking of "The Biggest Loser" show, most of the participants gain all the weight they lost back within a year and get even heavier. Changes that come through great force and with no respect to the body's current limitations can come fast and can be very impressive, but they are usually unsustainable. They get undone as fast as they were brought about, and then the mind-body system gets thrown back and regresses because it wants to compensate for the lost balance.

Yoga, on the other hand, takes a completely different approach. In yoga you are always instructed to respect your current state and work within your limitations. The body will make a better and a more sustainable progress when its pace is respected. And, mind you, yoga is also an action-oriented approach but it's philosophy is completely different from the big losers. Ask any respectable medical doctor what he thinks of shows like The Big Loser, and he will tell you that training like that one doesn't make anyone healthy, on the contrary, it is very damaging.

As a rule of thumb, any "quick fix" solution is a scam.

[Ididitmyway]

Here is one doctor's take on the Biggest Loser's methods

Is "The Biggest Loser" Risking Contestants' Lives? Dangerous Weight-Loss Techniques Revealed - Dr. Charles A. Evans, M.D., Ph.D-Dr. Charles A. Evans, M.D., Ph.D

And here is a Slate article about it
"The Biggest Loser" Exposes The Dieting Fraud

If you browse through all kinds of weight loss websites, you'll see that virtually all of them would say that weight loss should happen gradually, never rapidly. And any physician who is in the right mind would tell you that losing too much weight too fast is very dangerous to your health.

The Biggest Loser participants destroy their health in the hope to win a big sum of money. That's all this is about and this is very sad.

[growlycat]

When I have lost large amounts too quickly in the past, I have gained back and then some. I am trying to focus on fitness first, weight loss later. Dieting without exercise has been a disaster for me (halted metabolism). I have much better results maintaining the status quo in my diet but ramping up the exercise (gradually)

Thanks for the links!

[SabinaS]

Growly - change your driving instructor, you are paying him. Getting mad at you for crying is not going to help you build your confidence. If you don't already drive, the idea can be shitscary... I can empathise.

I think having episodes of self doubt is normal isn't it? Otherwise we'd all be psychopaths. Mine doesn't seem to get irritated by self doubt but advised me once (for an interview) not to apologise for myself... which leads me to suspect that I have done that a lot in therapy and it irritates him.

Better to irritate than bore though, no?!

[growlycat]

Thanks SabinaS--

I've been up all night upset about today's lesson and lots of other things that feel like like setbacks. My instructor--a woman--- had been helpful up until today. My rational side keeps saying maybe she was having a bad day but the rest of me wants to get a new instructor pronto.

I drive in a small geographical area, surface streets only. I have been trying to master this for decades and I am so frustrated at this point. I feel like both she and my therapist are frustrated with me and that is making me feel hopeless.

It's stupid, but I am having suicidal thoughts over this. (No worries I'm safe)
I'm so worried that I won't be able to make the changes I need to in my life. I worry that no one understands or cares about me. I am really fighting hopelessness right now.

I am grateful to you and anyone on pc willing to comment. I feel really lost.

[Ford Puma]

Yep... I drive T up the wall and around the bend with my self doubt sometime. Actually it can be funny sometime watching her become so flustered with me. OOO wellllllllllll
O and I think we can be what ever we are on the day with T. If we are down we are down if we are sad we are sad. If we are full of self doubt then we have that right to be. Its part of why we are their. The aught to know that.

Growly.. That is the fear talking in your head.... Trying to sabotage you... Maybe you need a little check in with old T....

And then explain to CBT that you are feeling discouraged with yourself and you need encouragement. Personally for me I think of it as rising plateaus... You take one step and you maintain that then you take the next step and maintain....

It's still early (3 months), but I haven't found my therapist to get irritated about anything, including my self-doubt (and worse). She just sort of takes it in, asks questions, and the intensity dissolves at some point. Not sure how that is happening.

I could not deal with a therapist that gets irritated with me. I've had that with previous therapists who put their egos into it, and it feels distancing and blaming.

[Onward2wards]

At this point I think psychodynamic and CBT approaches ought to be somehow blended into one. They both have specific strengths.

[LindaLu]

Originally Posted by growlycat

I am having a confidence crisis of sorts...My CBT T last week was heading there too --after saying out loud the worries that go round in my head, he said "keep thinking like that and of course you will be demotivated".

I totally could have written this last week. My T had the most futile expression and stated, "So I've TOLD you before that I DO care." It felt like I was falling backwards off a cliff in slow motion, like she's not going to keep reassuring me. My distress is so high and yet I'm managing to piss off her (and presumably others).

If I'm understanding your post correctly...getting to this point with T, the world, and one's self is really uncomfortable.

Hope it resolves soon

[growlycat]

Originally Posted by LindaLu

I totally could have written this last week. My T had the most futile expression and stated, "So I've TOLD you before that I DO care." It felt like I was falling backwards off a cliff in slow motion, like she's not going to keep reassuring me. My distress is so high and yet I'm managing to piss off her (and presumably others).

If I'm understanding your post correctly...getting to this point with T, the world, and one's self is really uncomfortable.

Hope it resolves soon

I hope your situation improves as well. I think what you said is accurate-- I worry that either constant self doubt or need for reassurance wears other people thin, even therapists. Thankfully, most T's pull through their frustrations. I think mine has a little. He called me today and was very kind.

Sometimes it helps to say to T " I know that I am always needing reassurance but I don't know what to do about that yet." It shows you are aware and are willing to change.

Not sure what to do with others in my life !

[msxyz]

I would have snapped back at my therapist for that comment.

[growlycat]

Originally Posted by msxyz

I would have snapped back at my therapist for that comment.

He has odd moments like that. I wanted to say something but part of me wants to hear him when his "filter" falls off.

Sorry you are going through a confidence crisis .
It's easy for a t to get annoyed about it and be judgemental because they have been there and worked through it already.
It's easier to think negatively than it is to think positively about ourselves and especially if we have been told negative things to us of course we will believe them.
It takes time to rewire your brain into thinking only good about yourself growly cat and to filter out the bad stuff bit Rome wasn't built in a day and with baby steps it can be done.
How about telling yourself something true about yourself for a day, like you are smart or beautiful or whatever it is you know to be true and when that negative thought creeps in just throw it out and say that's false because visible know this is true.