[musinglizzy]

I feel so stupid, vulnerable and alone when I cry. As of today, I have no desire to let myself cry in therapy. May be difficult, but I think I can handle that. It was a hard session, and as usual when I cry, I end up leaving my session in a not-so-good place. I just don't want to do that anymore.

My T used to come over and console me...that helped get me grounded, calmed down, and eventually stop. All of a sudden, she's not doing that anymore. Leaves me wondering what I said or did...but it doesn't really matter.

My God, this therapy crap is hard work.

I'm sorry you had such a rough session.

[Ad Intra]

It does suck. When your open like that you want to feel warmth in return.

[LonesomeTonight]

I think the act of crying, of letting it out, can be healing in and of itself. I feel like my T's office is a safe place to cry (though I still sometimes apologize for it). But if at one time you were getting comfort from your T and suddenly aren't, I can definitely see why that woudl be unsettling. You should ask your T about it. Maybe she's hoping you'll be able to comfort yourself, but if so, she needs to tell you that.

[Restin]

Believe me I feel for the pain and uncertainty in the therapist/client relationship. If it's any consolation, I was just reading in a book today that therapists who stop touching the patient are actually trying to strengthen the transference dependency. Touching keeps the relationship more realistic. The T wants the patient's transference fantasy to go deeper by leaving more to the imagination. I'm sure this doesn't help, tho, when what you need is a little caring recognition for your suffering.

[mortalache]

I can relate well to this. I always have it in mind at the beginning of session not to cry. But usually right in the middle of a sentence where I'm saying something about what's recently happening, I'll start feeling tears burn in my eyes and it's out of my hands from that point. I don't talk to anyone else so deeply about my emotions, so I think during my sessions just putting together my thoughts to voice how I feel is enough of a difficulty. The shame and embarrassment for crying doesn't do much to keep me from doing it though.

[musinglizzy]

She knows I'm holding something back from her. In some ways, I was so close to saying it, or at least starting to give some hints, today.... but without reassurance, there's no way in hell I'll tell her. Just no way. I don't want to talk about something that is SUCH a big deal to me, without some support. I know lots of people don't get that on here. But, in my opinion, if a T starts something, then just takes it away, that's not very helpful for my trust. If I said or did something, I wish she'd have told me, or if, like above, it's an act to help me soothe myself better, tell me so, instead of leaving me there hanging wondering what I did.... I was crying and upset about our discussion today, she had to ask me twice to stand up so she could give me a hug. I didn't want a hug, I just wanted to walk out the door. I wasn't upset over this, per se, but it was in the back of my mind. I know I'll have to bring it up to her, but right now, I would prefer if I don't get a text or Email from her between sessions. I see her again on Monday. It can wait. I'm going away for the weekend anyway, and she knows it.

[LonesomeTonight]

I often find it telling what triggers the tears in sessions. Like something I'd expect to cry about doesn't make me cry, but something that I didn't think was that big a deal, I end up sobbing over. It sometimes helps me realize what's really bothering me deep down, that maybe I'm afraid to admit to myself.

[Asiablue]

So she isn't coming over to sit with you while you cry? How many times has that happened? Also I note that you've said she gave you a hug at the end and was kind of insistent in giving you one, so the issue isn't that she doesn't like touching you or doesn't want to.

Maybe there's no reason for not coming over while you're crying or maybe she "felt" something from you one of the times and got the message that you didn't want that or maybe she felt her soothing you was hindering your process, like, she was soothing you and you stopped crying because you were being soothed and maybe she realised you need the tears and the crying and she was stopping them by soothing you or maybe she realised her soothing you was more about her needs that yours and has centred herself back to where she should be as your therapist.

There could be lots of reasons and I think it's something you'll need to be brave and speak to her about. I do agree if she's consciously changed something she should discuss it with you.

[musinglizzy]

Only the last two crying sessions.... but that's totally out of character for her.

I sure understand your reasonings as far as her stopping the tears, but that's not the case...I still cry. Once I briefly fell asleep... but it's always happened near the end of a session, where I felt she knew I needed to calm down before I left. So, I did eventually calm down, but not right away. The timing was good, because it was a way to ground me before going back out in the real world. I HATE nothing more than leaving therapy upset. I don't like to be in a bad place when I leave...and yesterday I was. The last session where I cried and she kept her distance, I also was. Therapy is typically the only place I DO cry...and I'm betting it has something to do with just feeling safe and comforted when I do. I know I should learn to comfort myself...and I do have some self-comfort strategies that work half assed.... but it meant a lot to me that she cared enough to give a bit of herself when it was needed. I'm really getting a bit tired with therapy anyway....it's not that there isn't enough to talk about. There is plenty. I just get tired of talking about them. She says you gotta talk about things over and over again to face them, and move on from them. But I'm getting bored. And if I'm not crying, I feel like our sessions are just general chit chat. Hey,I greatly appreciate the "easier" sessions she thows out once in awhile...it's a nice break from the hard stuff.... but I've not been quite so scared of the tougher sessions because she's shown me I'm not alone in talking about it.

Hi Musing, I might be one of the people you referred to as not getting it, since I don't want to be touched by a therapist. Other than it being my own preference and issue, my main concern is seeing what happens to individuals when it's withdrawn. Maybe it will only be for these two sessions, or occasionally, but it's hard to see someone in pain from that and wondering if they caused it. It just seems like more can go wrong than right. You now have a new problem that you didn't have going in, and that bothers me. I really do hope this can be worked out for your sake and that you regain some consistency with this relationship so that you can work on your very real challenges in life.

[brillskep]

Originally Posted by Restin

Believe me I feel for the pain and uncertainty in the therapist/client relationship. If it's any consolation, I was just reading in a book today that therapists who stop touching the patient are actually trying to strengthen the transference dependency. Touching keeps the relationship more realistic. The T wants the patient's transference fantasy to go deeper by leaving more to the imagination. I'm sure this doesn't help, tho, when what you need is a little caring recognition for your suffering.

If you don't mind my asking, what book was this?

[JustShakey]

Musinglizzy, I don't think you should discount the lighter, more chit-chatty sessions. My sessions are usually a riot - both T and I like to laugh. I very rarely cry and then only very little. I think you might be pushing yourself too hard. It's okay to get at it the easy way. It's probably healthier too...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Petra5ed]

I also hate to cry. When tears start to come I just want to run far away from any people. Actually, I've noticed I cant cry in front of men, I have less of an issue with women, but I don't feel like women can help me with my issues so it's not comforting to cry around them either... odd. My T has both tried to console me and to leave me be, and either way I will try to shut off the tears as soon as I can. I guess you can say therapists are unpredictable, like anyone else. If I got the sense my therapist would come and hug me I might actually cry more because it's comforting to be close to him.

Anyways, I think if you can cry you should cry. It's supposed to be cathartic and will probably be good down the line. But I do get it.

[Asiablue]

Originally Posted by musinglizzy

Only the last two crying sessions.... but that's totally out of character for her.

I sure understand your reasonings as far as her stopping the tears, but that's not the case...I still cry. Once I briefly fell asleep... but it's always happened near the end of a session, where I felt she knew I needed to calm down before I left. So, I did eventually calm down, but not right away. The timing was good, because it was a way to ground me before going back out in the real world. I HATE nothing more than leaving therapy upset. I don't like to be in a bad place when I leave...and yesterday I was. The last session where I cried and she kept her distance, I also was. Therapy is typically the only place I DO cry...and I'm betting it has something to do with just feeling safe and comforted when I do. I know I should learn to comfort myself...and I do have some self-comfort strategies that work half assed.... but it meant a lot to me that she cared enough to give a bit of herself when it was needed. I'm really getting a bit tired with therapy anyway....it's not that there isn't enough to talk about. There is plenty. I just get tired of talking about them. She says you gotta talk about things over and over again to face them, and move on from them. But I'm getting bored. And if I'm not crying, I feel like our sessions are just general chit chat. Hey,I greatly appreciate the "easier" sessions she thows out once in awhile...it's a nice break from the hard stuff.... but I've not been quite so scared of the tougher sessions because she's shown me I'm not alone in talking about it.

Some therapist's work a lot from intuition and senses in their own body, maybe she sensed your holding her back/withdrawal and sensed you didn't want her near you? It might not even be a concious action on her part.

Point is, you'll never know unless you ask her. And I don't think you "should" learn to comfort yourself. If getting comfort from your therapist helps, and she is willing, then I think it's absolutely fine. There's nothing wrong with human touch.

[musinglizzy]

I've never given the hint that I didn't want her to be near me. Except the couple times I've been frustrated with her (for good reason). In which case, I just hightailed it out of there. She gives me a hug at the end of every session.

I really hate the therapeutic relationship, I don't embrace it at all. Or don't want to. Sometimes I feel like it's just too much.

[musinglizzy]

She Emailed to check in today. I brought it up. Here was her reply: (well, one of them)

I'm not sitting there watching you cry. Really. I know that physical touch is comforting to you, and that is fine as well. I am trying to balance encouraging you to feel capable of caring for yourself with helping you feel cared for. An uneasy business at best. Vulnerable is ugly and weak feeling. That's kind of the definition. But feeling that way doesn't make you that. It's just how you feel, and the fact that you were hurt so many times when you felt that way isn't doing us any favors. Things change all the time -- relationships flex and flux. You haven't done anything wrong, shared too much or any such thing. In fact, it is important that you keep trying to share more. As much as you possibly can every time. I know you go through hell every time. I am there with you, and I'm not. That's the reality of it. But I'm not going anywhere, and I accept you.

And this was my reply:
I care for myself every day, all day long, the best way I know how. I have had to do it all my life, with little comfort, little reassurance, nothing. The hardest work I do is coming in there and trying to open myself up. You have helped me a great deal, in making me feel safe and cared about. And not being repulsed by touching me. I would be.

This is not an easy process for me, and I'm caring for myself as much as I can just by coming. I never thought I'd be there still, over 9 months later. I didn't have that plan.... but your care, your comfort, brings me in...because I know I can talk about things, feel the feelings, and feel comfort from it.

I guess the timing is off...I admitted things that I thought would "change" things, and then they changed. I noticed. I know you don't need to sit by me and provide reassurance, in fact, the first time I meekly asked, it was one need I vocalized, and I was surprised you did. I was more surprised that I was able to ask for it. But, you gotta do what you think is right. You know what you're doing, I don't know this whole process. And if you find that won't help me in the long run, so be it. I don't want you to be that way simply because I've asked. If you don't feel right, or feel I'm better of getting out of that on my own, well, you know best. I have to trust that.

But that whole inner child thing you're trying to get me to embrace....I think SHE needs it. Not me. Although there have been so many times I wanted nothing more than a shoulder to cry on. But, I've had that experience now, and can't expect to always have that. It's fine. Nothing good lasts forever....we all know that. I just think getting encouragement to cry, and to talk, are more important to focus on now, than encouragement to self soothe and care for myself. Other things will come together eventually. But you have had a lot of experience in this, so I'll have to trust your judgment.

[musinglizzy]

No thoughts? She didn't respond. So something must have stopped her.
She knows I'm going away this weekend, which I rarely do. So of course my thinking is she has something to say, but doesn't want to ruin my weekend. Well it'll be lingering, I'm sure.

[musinglizzy]

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

I think the act of crying, of letting it out, can be healing in and of itself. I feel like my T's office is a safe place to cry (though I still sometimes apologize for it). But if at one time you were getting comfort from your T and suddenly aren't, I can definitely see why that woudl be unsettling. You should ask your T about it. Maybe she's hoping you'll be able to comfort yourself, but if so, she needs to tell you that.

You were right, LonesomeTonight....that's exactly what she was doing. As I posted on here, she sent me a "check in" email this afternoon asking how I was after a hard session, and I told her. At first, she was under the impression that I have a hard time with the limited time. She said, like clockwork, I usually lose it 20 minutes before the session is over. I don't look at the clock hardly at all, I wouldn't know. But she said it's about that time I've had enough, feeling overwhelmed, and just don't want to talk much anymore. She said she felt bad kicking me out yesterday, but I didn't. I was only upset at the frame of mind I was in when I left. She could have helped me snap out of that if she wanted to. But she said (the Email is copied/pasted here) that basically I should learn to take care of myself, too. This also is a very trying time in my therapy. Not a time to do this and have me feeling rejected on top of it. My fear is that now, I'll want to stay stone cold and not cry under any circumstances, and if she were to come over, to tell her to just stay where she is. I don't want any more conflicting actions. She didn't respond to my last Email (also shared here). That leaves me feeling up in the air, although I know she doesn't want me to keep going with this conversation when I'm going for a weekend get-a-way early tomorrow, which is rare and unusual for me. I just feel sick. Wondering if therapy is worth all of this.

[musinglizzy]

Originally Posted by licketysplit

Hi Musing, I might be one of the people you referred to as not getting it, since I don't want to be touched by a therapist. Other than it being my own preference and issue, my main concern is seeing what happens to individuals when it's withdrawn. Maybe it will only be for these two sessions, or occasionally, but it's hard to see someone in pain from that and wondering if they caused it. It just seems like more can go wrong than right. You now have a new problem that you didn't have going in, and that bothers me. I really do hope this can be worked out for your sake and that you regain some consistency with this relationship so that you can work on your very real challenges in life.

Lickety, I always look forward to your responses. You are very wise, you know! But you're SO right when you say therapy itself has caused me more issues than I had going in.

[musinglizzy]

Originally Posted by brillskep

If you don't mind my asking, what book was this?

I agree, I'm curious what this book was!

[musinglizzy]

With the amount of views vs. replies to this post, I'm considering asking that this thread be deleted. Too much personal info here. If I decide to delete it, can I do it myself? There are posts I've wanted to delete in the past, but didn't know how. I have an uneasy feeling that people who are not actual members here can see my posts.

[musinglizzy]

Can you tell I didn't sleep all night? Had this on my mind all night. Pathetic!

I think you can ask the moderators to delete the whole thread. But don't worry about posts vs views. If you look at most threads, the ratio is similar. It's not because people don't want to respond, but that they aren't able to (as guests). It takes a leap to jump from lurker to member. But yeah...if it bothers you, you can make it all go poof.

[JaneTennison1]

Just hit report and there's an option to ask them to delete the thread. FWIW I read it and didn't respond as I didn't know what to say.