[MissCharlotte]

I am hijacking this topic to a new thread because I think it deserves its own place. I know that some of us read books, psychology or other that help us to understand the work we are doing in therapy. I remember when I was first working with my current T that I was very confusd about the work we were doing and I told him I needed to understand it better. He recommended that I read, The Courage to Heal so I would have an understanding of the work we were doing. It helped me a lot but we didn't discuss the book specifically during sessions. He also said that I could go to Barnes & Noble and park myself in front of the racks and see what speaks to me. So...that wasn't such a great idea because i wind up wasting money that way.

He is an analyst and will go with whatever I bring up and that has taken me a while to get comfy with but now I can just go with the flow, it always finds its way back to my issues anyway!

If I am reading a book (and I am always reading a book) I usually mention it but we don't always discuss it. I guess knowing what I am drawn to gives him some insight into me.....Hmmm I take that back this past week we did discuss one book I was reading but it was fiction and I described an incident that touched me in a way that reminded me of my chldhood. So, the book itself wasn't about psychology or therapy but it surely related to my therapy.

I guess Pink's reading of McWilliams is the same. It just happens to be what she is reading at the moment, so it is brought to the table in the same way.

So, any other books brought into therapy? Has it helped your work with T?

http://www.spiritual.com.au/articles.../PrinceCh1.htm

[SecretGarden]

Thanks for bring this discussion here Sister. I have one foot out the door and will be interested in seeing how this evolves.

My concern is reading about how the process should work may not allow the experience to evolve naturally. It seems kind of canned that way and who really knows what is real in terms of the process. Was it therapy produced or produced because it was determined the time it needed to happen per Hoiley... and not the client or the therapist.

I think that we need to trust our therapists to do therapy. I too bring things in from time to time... an article to discuss or whatever about a concept but I am leaving the process to the therapeutic experience. That is facilitated by my therapist and myself in therapy but he is the one that I trust to keep me on track or to have the perceptions as he knows me.... differently than I do and certainly better than Hoiley does..

Mouse...I was not able to open that but will try again later...

I do read also outside and come here and other places and yes occasionally they come in to session.... so maybe it is not all that different but it seems to guide some peoples' therapeutic experience.

But also, if I am not sitting in the session....how do I know? I just know we talk much of encumbrances to therapy and to developing a therapeutic alliance and depending it could be looking to someone other than the therapist for expertise...ok sometimes... perhaps. lol... but not as a rule.

[Perna]

I could afford to park mysef in front of the psych sections in book stores (and online) but preferred self-help. I reviewed books for Metapsychology, http://www.mentalhelp.net/books for a few years but my T was kind of like yours, sister, even though I'd give her the books I read and thought were great and finished, we'd never really discuss them. She only wanted to talk about "Me" specifically and our direct work :-) not other people (or online groups) or books or the weather :-) etc.

It was interesting because occasionally she'd mention a book, novel even, that she liked or a movie. . . I'd go see them and usually wouldn't like them :-) We had very different tastes I think. When I saw her at first, she was into Erich Fromm, back in the 1970s there, and I did/do like him. His books The Art of Loving and To Have or To Be? both helped me a lot.

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SecretGarden said:

My concern is reading about how the process should work may not allow the experience to evolve naturally. It seems kind of canned that way and who really knows what is real in terms of the process. Was it therapy produced or produced because it was determined the time it needed to happen per Hoiley... and not the client or the therapist.

I think that we need to trust our therapists to do therapy. I too bring things in from time to time... an article to discuss or whatever about a concept but I am leaving the process to the therapeutic experience. That is facilitated by my therapist and myself in therapy but he is the one that I trust to keep me on track or to have the perceptions as he knows me.... differently than I do and certainly better than Hoiley does..

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Bringing books into therapy is part of the process for me. If reading this book in between session is the only way that I stay connected, then how is that not a beneficial part of the process?

As I remember it, I was reading the book already, brought it upstairs with me, and he commented on how much he admired her work. This shows how much of a natural part of the process it was-- it's not like I brought the book in on purpose to use in therapy; nor did he instruct me to bring it in. I just happened to have it that day, we talked about it, and it has enhanced my understanding of the therapeutic process, both as a client and a T, ever since.

When you leave session, your T writes notes. He/she is probably conceptualizing your treatment based on a framework or a theory... this framework most likely was not made up by your T; rather it was heavily influenced by a particular theorist or school of thought. So how is bringing in the book any different? You are bringing the framework right into the room, and understanding the conceptualization of your problem.

It also serves as a connection for me--we both admire her work and we can discuss it both professional and personally (in regards to my stuff, of course).

Just to clarify, it's not like we use the book to guide the session. I might come in, free associate about some stuff, talk, curse him out (lol), for most of the session.... maybe I'll be talking about my anger, and say...."by the way.... I read something in McWilliams that really reminded me of what's going on in session..." Or vice versa. He might bring it up.

I really think it depends on the individual. For me, I have always been a very academic/artsy type person. For me engage in a process such as therapy without weaving in books, music, poetry, etc. would be insane to me. It is so much a part of who I am. And in regards to that, he has always been right there with me. If I came to therapy and filtered out my books or whatever else, then it wouldn't be my natural process anymore.

I think it's all about what works for someone... as we all know, what works for some people doesn't work for others. For example... I think that self-disclosure of Ts (not including the emotional self-disclosure in response to something appropriate), impedes the therapeutic process. BUT-- I know that a lot of therapists and clients alike, find this to be beneficial, and it is a natural part of the process. I

Books are definitely a part of my natural process. It's different for everyone. For me, this is not limited to books pertaining to psychology-- for example, we have discussed Russian literature-- in ways that it pertains. Not like a book club or anything-- but in ways that it can be tied in to therapy. That's how I operate, what can I say?

He gets me. For the most part. Not yesterday. But mostly.

I absolutely love this thread; thank you for starting it.

[sidony]

Great topic! I've thought a lot about this myself. I never studied psychology, but when I first started going to therapy I started reading online about the process. Realized I could see a few of the things that my therapist was doing. Wondered if that would be somehow disappointing to "know too much" as it were.

Then, when he wanted me to try group therapy, I started researching all the websites on it. I mentioned that I had read a bit about it. He immediately lent me a book by Yalom all about the theory and practice of it. I read most all of that book even though it was very technical and I don't have a psychology background. I read lots and lots about group therapy and transcript examples, etc. before I ever walked into a session. I wondered how this would affect things for me.

Here's my conclusion. Something I said to him once in session sums it up. And I may have even mentioned this here before. (And I apologize for this example since it indicates I may have done something illegal about a million years ago, but it's the best example I can think of on this topic!) I said to my therapist: "Knowing what the word 'hallucinate' means is no preparation for trying acid." And that fits so well with therapy (individual or group). I read all about group and individual -- even knew what was taking place in some instances -- yet it has spoiled nothing for me. It's still nothing really like what I could have imagined. An intellectual grasp of it is interesting but never told me what it would feel like!

So maybe I'll read a bit more. Anyone know any good layman's books? I'm particularly interested in group therapy lately (still trying to decide if I'm getting anything out of it). Yalom's book was fascinating though I might like something a little more layman-friendly.

Sidony

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sidony said:
Realized I could see a few of the things that my therapist was doing. Wondered if that would be somehow disappointing to "know too much" as it were.

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Hehehe, sometimes I say this to my T... I tell him that since I'm going to school for this, that I know all the tricks, and it takes the fun out of it. That is not the truth, of course, rather it enhances the experience.

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Then, when he wanted me to try group therapy, I started researching all the websites on it. I mentioned that I had read a bit about it. He immediately lent me a book by Yalom all about the theory and practice of it.

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This is the book we had to buy for my group therapy class. I am using it right now as an adjunct to my group therapy paper.

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(And I apologize for this example since it indicates I may have done something illegal about a million years ago, but it's the best example I can think of on this topic!) I said to my therapist: "Knowing what the word 'hallucinate' means is no preparation for trying acid."

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Ok, I'm calling the cops now.

Seriously, that is a beautiful analogy though. You are so right.

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And that fits so well with therapy (individual or group). I read all about group and individual -- even knew what was taking place in some instances -- yet it has spoiled nothing for me.

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I agree-- it only enhances the experience.

Yes, I like that analysts do that. I am new to this type of therapy and I like that she just wants to know about me, my perceptions, and hear them in my own voice. I am learning to appreciate the intimacy of that.

I recently took a book I was reading into my session with me and she was excited about it, had heard about it and wanted to read it. I thought that meant we would discuss it but that's not what she meant. Of course I'm welcome to talk about it so I have some. Mostly though, the book just helped me to think about things. That book was Understanding the Borderline Mother. I found it exactly the way your T suggested. Quite by accident really. I was there to buy a new Pema Chodron book, found 3 and couldn't make up my mind. I carried them with me to think about and browsed and this other book just chose me, really. So I put all 3 Chodron books back and chose the Borderline Mothers book instead.

I have a couple on order that are about therapy, including the one about women and their therapists. I like to read books recommended by others.

I am currently reading The Memory Keeper's Daughter, a novel. I just started it and it's very good so far. It had a good review by Sue Monk Kidd, who wrote my favorite book, The Secret Life of Bees.

I also enjoy Sue Henry books. Her stories are set in Alaska and frequently feature a strong woman who lives alone and participates in the Idatarod sled-dog races. I like the strong female character and the unusal setting.

Anyway, I like a variety of books, fiction and non-fiction.

I usually have a book with me. She may or may not notice. If I want her to know it is up to me to tell her. That's how it works.

Do you find yourself choosing books with your T in mind, with thoughts of what being seen reading this particular book would mean?

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ECHOES said:

Do you find yourself choosing books with your T in mind, with thoughts of what being seen reading this particular book would mean?

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No, but this makes me laugh because a couple of months ago, I was going through a really bad depression, and just happened to be reading Faulkner's "As I Lay Dying" at the time.

During one of our conversations, T asked me what I was reading....

You should have seen the look on his face when I told him.

We both ended up laughing.

Some weeks ago I had mentioned "Nausea" by Sartre, and he was like, "Please don't tell me you're reading that now."

Ah, the little things I remember. The things that I love.

[sunrise]

I was just about to post this in the other thread, but then saw this new thread. Here is what I was going to say:

My T recommends books to me all the time. We only have one hour together each week, so if part of what he wants to convey to me is handled well in a book, then we can save time by my reading the book outside of session. It can help me to new insights or we can even discuss it in session. But he never "pushes" books on me, just throws out ideas (I never feel it is "homework."). Some books I have read that he recommended, some not. Some of the books we have discussed a little in session, some not. Some books have lead to HUGE breakthroughs for me. For example, I couldn't stand to hear my T (or my previous counselor) use the word "abuse" in conjunction with me. I was in denial about that. T recommended a book to me on abuse, I read it, at first reluctantly, then devoured it, as I realized this book was describing ME. I came to the session the following week and had accepted that I had experienced abuse. This was something we had not been able to accomplish together in therapy. So, books can have their place in the therapy process.

There are also other books I have read on my own, that T did not suggest, just to satisfy my desire to understand myself and also to understand therapy, such as the "In Session" book. This book helped me feel I was not alone or aberrant in my feelings toward my T.

Mouse, I have read The Little Prince many times. It was a childhood favorite of mine. I still have an old, flood-damaged copy and have read it several times as an adult too. I love both the message and the art.

[SecretGarden]

I think that we all bring experience and knowledge with us in to the room via private or organized education or experience in life. If we were to limit ourselves to the therapy room itself the journey would be slow and not as expansive as if we work outside of the room. We indeed have our own experiences but I suppose I have been in more of an analytic environment that deals alot with what is going on within the room itself as well as what is going on outside the room. In early therapy with this pdoc he made it known that he thought that the drink I brought in with me was a defense. So.... for years... I stopped bringing a drink to facilitate our relationship...and to make it more genuine with fewer limitations. Simple things but oh so important.

I recall there was a time that I was telling him I was so dedicated that I would even stop wearing the jewelry that I wore while in session. Now we then thought that that was interesting but he said... go with it ...so for years I did not wear jewelry except for earrings...and when feeling incredibly bad or in need I would even take off the earrings. That, to me, was telling him that I would basically be "naked" in order to best be seen or bring in the least encumbrances...left my purse in the car...still generally do..and just bring in the keys. Him and I ... and our psyches..... at work... alone.

So... this analytic environment is where I came to the conclusions that I have... I actually began learning this way years before professional services....with family connections and college with Social Work major with Psych and Soc background as well. So it is not a matter of a lack of knowledge or experience or sometimes knowing what is or is not happening in there. Though I do not often know... and that is sometimes a good thing...lol...as the goal is to learn through the soul, the gut, the emotional brain.

It is a matter of developing trust and a connection with my pdoc and experiencing what is going on with just us...eyeball to eyeball ... gut to gut without defenses in the room or diversions to water down what is going on.

I think that if taking a book in to session is what works for you then go for it BUT it might be interesting to see what a session might be like without all of that protection and barrier with you. Could just be an interesting experiment.

[MissCharlotte]

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Do you find yourself choosing books with your T in mind, with thoughts of what being seen reading this particular book would mean?

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Good question. No, I haven't but of course I choose books with my therapy in mind because it's always on my mind consciously or unconsciously so....

However, I am reading a book I think he must know and I haven't told him becaue I don't want him to think I picked it becaue of him......

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he thought that the drink I brought in with me was a defense.

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Now, that's interesting. Once during an intense conversation I just stood up and walked out the door and into the waiting room to get a drink of water. T said, "you don't want to tell me...."

I guess i didn't.

[lauren_helene]

My T has recommended books like The Sex-Starved Marriage (very good one), Nasty bosses, and the mood disorder book about cognitive therapy.

I read the first two and not so much the third. I read books all the time, he thinks if I obsess over these books and researching all the time that I won't heal...

The Bond Between Women and Their Therapists...I told him I read this and would give it to him. I've been afraid to give it to him though...I might someday

[MissCharlotte]

Another thought....

So what did you see first, the movie or the book?

I have often seen movies based on a book I read and usually think the book was better. I believe this is because I like my visual images better than the producer/director's and they rarely match. Sometimes I like a book so much I won't even see the movie because I don't want to spoil it. In this instance the book is much more of a real experience than the movie. Of course there are those times when you enjoy the movie, and say, "that's exactly like I pictured it." But those instances are rare.

I think therapy & books work the opposite way. Although we read the book, the experience of therapy is real and therefore more desirable. It is a personal experience. The book can give us a framework but the therapeutic experience is so individual that unless you write your own book you are not reading what is going on in THAT room at THAT time.

sister, I am like you: I have to read the book first and I don't usually see the movies because one, I don't like movies and two, i like my images better too.

i also agree with you about books, particularly self-help books. they must be read knowing that this is usually about the author's experience and the author's experience is as unique as ours is and can't be duplicated.

psychology books are interesting. i like to read about what might cause what. I think I read them to see what "normal" is and what life "should have been" like.. normal development and basic needs kinds of things. That's helpful too in trying to understand here and now.

I just started "The Memory Keeper's Daughter".. has anyone read that one?

[SecretGarden]

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[b]
I think therapy & books work the opposite way. Although we read the book, the experience of therapy is real and therefore more desirable. It is a personal experience. The book can give us a framework but the therapeutic experience is so individual that unless you write your own book you are not reading what is going on in THAT room at THAT time.

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Right on Sister!

That framework thing ... I am trying to understand... though I understand it in the context you use it. I notice people here mentioning frames but wonder how important people feel knowledge is about the frame when they are working on an issue. Are they like boundaries for a discussion or a road map or what? I should probably know this... :-)

[ClaireB]

I think I may have sent the wrong message in another thread. I didn't mean to imply that books about topics like abuse or mental health are harmful. For me, I think books and movies and the internet, are kind of a double edged sword. While it can be very helpful, I have sometimes had a difficult time limiting my intake. In many ways reading about mental health issues has been helpful - it helps me understand what is going on with me and helps me realize other people deal with the same issues. Other times I think reading about certain issues has left me feeling even more depressed. I think the key here is moderation, and that's not something I'm real good at.

[MissCharlotte]

Secret said:

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That framework thing ... I am trying to understand... though I understand it in the context you use it. I notice people here mentioning frames but wonder how important people feel knowledge is about the frame when they are working on an issue. Are they like boundaries for a discussion or a road map or what? I should probably know this... :-)

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I think of a framework as sort of the skeleton, it just gives form or a mental image or provides a container for what is inside. I think your question is interesting because I think the answers depend on who you are, who your T is and what kind of therapy he/she practices. It is my understanding that there are more rules, hence a sort of road map, in behavioral therapy than in analysis or psychodynamic therapy.

My T is into analysis and I guess psychodynamic although we have never discussed this. (He did mention once that he was an analyst). So, for someone who has never been in therapy or a similar type of therapy it is helpful to get an idea that what is going on in the room is ok and normal. For me, my last therapy experience was very different, so reading a little bit, particularly on this website, has helped me to understand the experience as ok.

I guess reading books about psychology and therapy help to normalize the experience. I don't think it has any bearing on what actually transpires in the room, at least for me it doesn't. I havn't really read any psych books, just the healing book I mentioned, and some child development stuff for my teaching coursework.

I don't want to read too much about the mechanics of therapy at this point because (1) it is not my "thing" and (2) I don't want to get to the point where I am reading into it too much, and (3) I wouldn't want to wind up using it as a distraction from the work at hand. I do talk about my literacy work and teaching struggling readers, because that is my stuff, and what I am interested in and so I can use it as a metaphor for other things.

[SecretGarden]

I believe I am following you and that I am experiencing it without having to define it. It is there and I know when I have gone outside of boundaries... sometimes acceptable and sometimes not. I also understand a progression and a direction for therapy so that would be the road map that we may choose to change roads or highways as we go but it is often continuous and logical.

I loved your story of going outside to get a drink of water without announcing it.. ....lol..... ;-)

[sunrise]

sister, I too love the story about your leaving the room to get a drink of water. That definitely sent a message! Lately, I have been fantasizing about what I would do if things got too intense in therapy with my husband there. I've been thinking I would just get up and leave to take a bathroom break. I think that is preferable to curling up in a ball on the couch.

SecretGarden, that was fascinating your T thought your bringing a drink to therapy was a defense! Actually, I think he needs to lighten up a bit. Or maybe he is just jealous and wants whatever you're having. I view coming to therapy as paying a visit to my therapist, and since he is the host, it is up to him to either provide drinks or not to. I wouldn't bring a drink into his office (except maybe water) as I would consider it somewhat rude since he wouldn't have one. When I go to therapy, my T always offers me a bottle of water, and sometimes he offers me tea, which sometimes I accept and sometimes I don't. If he makes me tea, he will sometimes have some also, or sometimes just make my cup for me but not imbibe himself. I don't consider it defensive in any way to drink tea in his room. I especially like it when we drink tea together and consider it therapeutic.

[SecretGarden]

I think it is cute that he offers you tea or water. That is giving you something that facilitates a connection in a hospitable, giving, bonding way. Luckily my pdoc has lightened up on that as he says it is not a problem...now. It was earlier in our time together. I do understand it though...even if it was a little out there.

How long are your sessions that he has time to make tea? It sounds quite relaxed and cozy.

[sunrise]

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SecretGarden said:
How long are your sessions that he has time to make tea? It sounds quite relaxed and cozy.

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50 minutes. It is indeed very relaxed and cozy. A bonding ritual. He boils water in an electric kettle, pours it into our cups with teabags, and then we are good to go. It only takes a short time and we talk while he is doing it.

SG, I am glad your T is now accepting of your drinking in his presence!

[withit]

I just love the idea (and action of course) of a t boiling the water, preparing the tea, and chatting while he's doing it...sounds warm and cozy....

I saw a certain t briefly (just a few weeks) and she had this ritual, every time I came she asked if I'd like a drink of water. I usually said yes, and she poured me a cup from her pitcher. I think it made for better bonding.

[Lemon]

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ECHOES said:

I just started "The Memory Keeper's Daughter".. has anyone read that one?

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Echoes - I just finished reading that book. I liked it. I won't say more about it because I don't know how far into the book you are.

I think the discussion about whether people's T's offer them a beverage is interesting. Mine doesn't. She sometimes has a bottle of water or something that she drinks. This past week she was making tea from a tea bag. She had to get up to throw out the tea bag and she excused herself when she did so. She's never offered me anything. I'm not offended by it, it just doesn't seem like something she'd do. I've thought about bringing something in to drink, but for me it would be a defense mechanism. I don't really get thirsty when I'm there. It would just be for me to have something to play with in my hands. Actually knowing me I'd mess around with it so much I'd spill all over her carpet and then be totally embarresed! LOL

That reminds me of my last session. Like usual, I'm fidgety and this week I was wiggeling my feet a lot. I was wearing these high heeled sandles (very cute!) that have wooden soles so they make a nice sound when I hit them together. Well, I guess I was a little too fidgety because one of them totally slipped off my foot and I had to kindof scoot way down in my chair to get my shoe back on. My t just ignored the whole thing. Afterwards I just kept having this image of me actually flinging my shoe across the room or something. I wonder if I did that if she would have acknowledged it or just kept on talking!

[MissCharlotte]

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Afterwards I just kept having this image of me actually flinging my shoe across the room or something.

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LOL Lemon. This is a hilarious image. And I bet my T would do the same thing, just ignore it...or smile slightly and keep on talking!

Thanks for the smile.