[Petra5ed]

For those that do obviously... I keep wondering why I'm like this. My gut feeling is because my own mother and father were crazy/drunk/abusive. Do old deep wounds ever heal?

Yes they do heal. But because those early wounds were so fundamental it becomes an achilis heel type thing.

I believe that yes they can heal. It takes work on our part, of course, but I am a believer.

They don't always heal. After my horrible therapy experience where we did not much else besides dwell on the past I have forced myself to focus on the here and now. I think that is key for me. Just accepting the past was horrible and even some parts of now are horrible has been helpful. It doesn't mean I can't have a good life if I choose to.

I'm not sure about transference. I don't really get into all that. It seems too weird for me.

[LonesomeTonight]

The thing with me is, it's not like my parents were abusive or did anything particularly awful to me. But I had OCD and anxiety starting in childhood, then depression in my late teens. There were things that were symptoms of those that I got in trouble for (like questioning food safety--my biggest OCD thing was/is contamination), when what I needed was understanding (and help). When I was having big anxiety issues around 12 and had trouble being away from my mom, it really upset her at times. And my dad told me that he was upset that I upset her because he loved her more than me. :-( And some other stuff.

Basically, I felt like they didn't understand my issues and didn't really get me help for them (they did take me to a p-doc for a bit at one point and tried to force me to take a pill by holding me down, but at the time I was scared that I'd have an allergic reaction and the pill would make me sick or kill me). I even told them I was depressed as a teen and wanted help, but they seemed to brush it off. And it felt like they didn't accept the mental health issues and maybe loved me a bit less because of them.

I've seen T's in the past, like in my 20s and early 30s, but never really had transference for them. But I now have fairly intense paternal, plus some erotic/romantic transference for my marriage counselor (he's like 10 years older than me). I also have some maternal transference for my T, though not with the same intensity (she's my parents' age). Pretty sure it's a case where they represent the type of parents I wish I had as a kid. I think some of it was set off when MC was talking about how he helped his preteen daughter with her anxiety about going to school, and it was like, I wish my parents could have been like that with me... I also wonder if part of why I'm experiencing transference now is because I'm a mom to a 4-year-old daughter, who also has some anxiety. So I'm trying to be a good mom to her and not make the same mistakes.

On a kinda lighter note: At one point, after I'd addressed the transference stuff with each of them, my MC said he told my T (they're in the same office and friends) that they should tell their respective spouses that they're now a couple and have a child together--me :-)

[rainbow8]

My parents were NOT abusive. I still suffer so much from transference and I don't know why.

[LonesomeTonight]

I feel like my post may have seemed a little too sunshine and rainbows about the transference part, so for people who haven't read my previous threads, here's a bit more of the reality.
I did have a very difficult time at first with the transference for MC. At first, I thought it was just erotic/romantic transference. Empathy was something I didn't feel like I was getting from my husband. It was difficult sometimes sitting in sessions when I was upset about something, with my husband on one side of me barely reacting at all, while my MC was on the other side of me being very empathic and caring. The difference was glaringly right in front of me. MC is also someone who tends to share a lot about himself and his experiences during sessions, so it felt like I knew him more as a person than my T, who is much more closed about her personal life. (Of course, I don't know MC outside the office, and I"m sure, from what he's said too, that he's not caring and empathic all the time to his wife and kids.)

But the transference, before I talked about it with T or MC, could be very painful, at point with me crying the whole way home from sessions (luckily, H and I drive there separately) because I just wanted so much to be close to MC. I eventually fessed up to my T (one of the hardest things I've ever told her, for some reason), and she helped facilitate my having an individual session with MC. That session with MC, which I cried most of the way through, led me to realize the transference was as much, if not more, paternal than erotic. With me wanting to feel safe and secure, which is how MC made me feel. At the end, he left it open to whether we could have another session to discuss things, with the implication that he was open to it.

H sort of figured out what was up, we discussed it in our next joint session (that was pretty awkward, to say the least!). H had said he'd be open to me having another individual sesssion w/MC, and T had said it would be fine, too. So I broached that topic during the joint session, but MC seemed to keep shutting me down, with comments on boundaries and such. I walked out of that session feeling like I'd been stabbed in the heart, like my chest literally hurt and began sobbing uncontrollably once I got in my car. I left a rambling, 5-minute, weepy message for MC (plus one for T) about feeling rejected and abandoned, etc. (I think it was clear that it wasn't just about him, like this was also about rejection in the past, childhood, etc.) MC called the next morning apologizing profusely, saying he hadn't meant to make me feel that way, etc. We talked about 10 min, then he was like, "Should we go ahead and schedule?"

The next individual session was helpful, and at the end he was saying how attachment isn't necessarily seeing someone all the time, but knowing that they're there if you need them. So he said his door was open to me, if I felt the need/want for another session, anytime. And that meant the world to me--the whole safety/security, not being abandoned thing. That was like a month and a half ago, and I haven't felt the need to schedule anything else aside from our weekly joint sessions.

Too long; didn't read: Transference can be incredibly painful at times, but talking about it can help you get through it (assuming you have a T who is skilled at handling such things).

[stopdog]

I think because some schools of psychotherapy set it up to maximize the potential for it occurring. And then some of those guys, who set it up to occur, handle it very badly.

The word itself was not a regular part of my vocabulary until I came to this forum. None of my previous therapist used the word. Then I read here about all the negatives regarding transference in therapy. I demanded that disgusting thing stay out of my therapy or I was backing out. This was through ~6-8 emails back and fourth. Her last email was in caps. "TRANSFERENCE IS WHAT THIS PROCESS IS ABOUT!" I did not know all caps meant she was shouting at me. I struggled with what she said for a couple of days. I was hiding out at an all night cafe continuing to write emails and poetry which was new for me to her about how crappy my parents were, and being abandoned by other therapist. In my last poem I said, "Let the Transference Begin! I surrendered my trust to her. I removed that boundary, but it definitely was not painless. Yet, in the end worth it a million times over.

[Restin]

So, TWFM, how did the ending of therapy work out for you?. You explained above how you surrendered to the transference with T and glad that you did, and that it's been a positive experience. I've just learned to trust my therapist, too, but I'm terrified of being re-traumatized by the ending. Do you actually get to the place where you can take it?

[missbella]

I speculate transference is so powerful and painful for many of same reasons as romantic love (sometimes) minus the erotic component. We came into the world attached, and seemingly have innate needs to seek love, nurture, understanding and guidance. Many creatures we observe have these instincts. Therapy can promise that understanding and care and tap into these primal needs, similar to romantic love.

However a therapy relationship is strictly defined, time limited, our "other" is inscrutable and the relationship asymmetrical. And I'd argue that a therapist is never a blank slate, he always is giving or not giving the client something. I believe there's always a here and now despite what some theoreticians believe. So in a sense, the time-limited therapy relationship inevitably is transference interruptus in my option.

Originally Posted by Restin

So, TWFM, how did the ending of therapy work out for you?. You explained above how you surrendered to the transference with T and glad that you did, and that it's been a positive experience. I've just learned to trust my therapist, too, but I'm terrified of being re-traumatized by the ending. Do you actually get to the place where you can take it?

It worked out well after doing extreme intensive therapy. That little hurt wounded little girl was allowed to exist and get her needs met. At first by the therapist and now by me. She had to remind me over and over she would not knowingly hurt me or lie to me. It was her responsibility to reassure me as much as I needed of the things I feared if they could come at her hands. If it meant ten, twenty times in a session, so be it. She said it takes as long as it takes.I came in angry many days, because I was letting everyone and everything affect me, including her. She had to be accepting of all of me, and know that it was most always never about her. Like she tell her parents, "Behaviors are messages delivered in code, and it is the parents job to decipher the message, meet the need and not react to the behavior." That was her job too. All I had to do was be there. Of course, the therapist needs to be solid and have done their own work.
It's was scary, and often times I wanted to run. The only agreement that we made when we started was that I would be there for all my appointments and not cancel. If I cancelled I always had to have another appointment on the books. I only didn't show up once, and demanded the she do a phone session - not what I really wanted (be careful what you ask for).

Some people want to change, but sometimes are not ready to do the work, and therapy doesn't get far or goes terribly even with a good therapist. It's not the fault of either therapist or client. It's just what it is at the moment.

Restin, you sound like you are ready for the work, and it sounds like you've got a good therapist.

[SoupDragon]

I wonder if transference is a natural thing for everyone based on previous experiences, but maybe the significant thing is the "suffering". So if people had healthy experiences growing up then that is their measure in life, ie basically people are mind and trustworthy and the individuals themselves have no problem defining and exerting their boundaries. But when previous experiences have been traumatic / abusive, then the benchmark to measure people is somewhere different and also boundaries may have been violated in the past making individuals feel more vulnetable.

Like PTSD, is that partly about applying ( traneferring) past learning / experience onto new situations that appear similar in some way?

[PinkFlamingo99]

Originally Posted by puzzle_bug1987

They don't always heal. After my horrible therapy experience where we did not much else besides dwell on the past I have forced myself to focus on the here and now. I think that is key for me. Just accepting the past was horrible and even some parts of now are horrible has been helpful. It doesn't mean I can't have a good life if I choose to.

I'm not sure about transference. I don't really get into all that. It seems too weird for me.

I don't really believe in it either. It's just a theory anyway. And a lot of Freudian stuff is a little out there.

Sorry, I already know this comment will offend a lot of people.

[Ididitmyway]

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

I wonder if transference is a natural thing for everyone based on previous experiences, but maybe the significant thing is the "suffering". So if people had healthy experiences growing up then that is their measure in life, ie basically people are mind and trustworthy and the individuals themselves have no problem defining and exerting their boundaries. But when previous experiences have been traumatic / abusive, then the benchmark to measure people is somewhere different and also boundaries may have been violated in the past making individuals feel more vulnetable.

Like PTSD, is that partly about applying ( traneferring) past learning / experience onto new situations that appear similar in some way?

You nailed it. This basically describes the concept of transference in a nutshell. It's not confined to a therapy room and to a therapist-patient relationship. Transference is a general occurance in a large number of human interactions in all kinds of relationships and situations.

It is also not confined only to those who have had adverse life expriences starting with childhood ones and on. Those who have been raised in reasonably healthy envoronments have positive transferences to others throughout their adult lives. But it's always a mixture of good and bad, painful, intense and more benign, positive. In different situations different parts of the past emerge and interfere with our perception of the present.

In therapy, at least in its current form, the intensity of those experiences is highly increased because of the unnatural settings where a natural healthy connection between two human beings cannot occur because one is put in a position of being an object of observation and analysis and is expected to spill their guts and make themselves completely vulnerable and the other one is protected by the non-disclosure and can keep all their defenses intact because their behavior will never be scrutinized in that relationship. This creates an emormous power imbalance which naturally makes transference go through the roof.

[Zygara]

My mother died about 5 years ago, when I was 13. That's where all the transference issues started. Now I constantly have a void which needs filling with a maternal figure's love. All I desire is to be held and loved by my object of transference.

[Cinnamon_Stick]

I think transference makes us suffer because we tend to want something from the person we are transferring the feelings to and often we can't have that with that person. I have very intense maternal transference for my T. She is everything I have ever wanted in a parent. At times its so intense that I cry and get depressed.

I try and focus on what I do have and what my needs are. My T is meeting my needs.

[Cinnamon_Stick]

Transference is also trying to teach us something. It happens for a reason.